Jennifer.... A+ on your first batch. It looks black. :)
Your current pile looks like it wants a bit of animal manure or fresh grass clippings to nitro-saturate your paper layer. Of course, then you'd need more carbon. Of course, then you'd need more nitrogen. Of course, if you did that, the size of :bouncy: your pile might get out of hand.

Bluebird..... pics forthcoming...likely this evening.

Anvoj, that's my favorite stuff to plant in. You can always rake out and further compost the larger chunks, and you can always manure tea a little around individual plants if there seems to be a deficiency. Compost tea would be safer, but manure tea made a little weaker does the job well. Blend it up so it's just rather translucent.... a little darker than herb tea, maybe not as dark as that instant crap they sell at the grocery store.
Weekly applications of manure tea right down the center, between planted rows, in your deep mulch pack, is priceless.

Fishhead, those dry spots should be worked out as you build the piles. Try to avoid them. The steaming action will rob a little moisture from the pile, but not much.
If I start a pile with adequate moisture, it generally maintains, unless we experience a drought. If I start a pile too wet, it seeps and seeps, saturating a portion of ground downhill from the pile, until the condition balances itself or I happen to remix the pile with drier material. If I knew I had dry spots as you describe, I'd five gallon bucket either water or manure tea onto the pile.....or urinate on it frequently, you know, commune with it from time to time.:kiss:

We're still keeping up with this thread. We are planning on keeping a couple good sized piles going on our small homestead to keep our bigger garden patches going.

We keep a 5 gallon bucket in the house to toss anything we can compost into and drag it out to the smaller piles we have by the garden. DH stuck his hand into the bigger pile we've had going longest, and it's getting HOT! I can't wait to have some good black compost to spread around the garden. I prefer that black compost under my fingernails to perfectly polished nails any day!

I've hosed down the pile several times now and we've had 3 inches of rain but I'm still finding those whitish dry hot spots. I just hosed it down with lake water for about 1/2 hour. It seems the hottest spots are also the ones that are dry and whitish. I'm pretty sure the white color is coming from hay mold.

The pile has dropped a foot already so either it's soaking up water or turning to compost.

Aww, shucks. Thanks! Yes, the compost came out very black. I learned the value of having a contraption to sift it... used an old milk crate with ~3/8 inch openings to sift for this first bucket. I'll see if I can get some scrap wood from the carpenters working on the new house up the street and put something together.

We do have to get going and find some manure. We have a couple of possibilities, just hope we won't have to dodge the ram at one place. They have Mr. Ram and his gals and a horse. There's a cattle farm with a small herd, too. And if the rain holds off tomorrow and our daughter isn't in labor, I can knock down some more of our tall grass and throw that on. Here's to a totally weird (for "normal" people) and entirely too large pile :hobbyhors.

As promised, a short tour........

Three year old grapes in a two foot by six foot deep compost bed.....80 yards long....
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...T/100_4405.jpg

Three year old peaches and the white onion patch.
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...T/100_4410.jpg

A representation of the peach crop. We have nearly 20 trees.....
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...T/100_4418.jpg

Red onions, cabbage and peas.....
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...T/100_4422.jpg

Red onions
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...T/100_4423.jpg

Cabbage and one of the garlic patches.....
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...T/100_4425.jpg

A representation of the plum crop....
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...T/100_4430.jpg

.....and, for now, lastly, some of our young apple trees are starting to produce...
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...T/100_4427.jpg

Now that weather is finally warming a bit and maybe even drying a bit, tomatoes, peppers and sweet potatoes should be looking much better soon.
They're all still smaller than I'd like.
The super potato will have to wait 'til tomorrow. My photographer forgot....

I thank your photographer -- great pics and the captions also. Now about those white onions, what's with all the purple, it almost looks like it is something between the rows ?

And what kind of garlic ? I am captivated by onions and garlic......

And it is as prolific as you say.............. congratulations. it's still to wet here to plant.

Great pictures & would enjoy having a lot more land for my garden. We are experiencing cool temperatures, just barely warm enough to plant in. I am planting more tomorrow, but holding back on my tomatoes. I'll just pot them up and they can live in the garden cabin for another few weeks.

I am happy to report we now have more compost piles and DH is contributing like it was his idea :) Hmmm, tho on the communing, as I got a strange look when I mentioned it. The latest one is almost as big as it can be for it's present location, so I'll be choosing another spot for the next one. I know right where I will have a HUGE one, but DH needs to get rid of the cars currently parked there... Those were given to us for salvaging.

I took one suggestion of yours and it was rather interesting. There won't be any issues getting more beds or any help in the garden or with compost piles...

Absolutley beautiful. Inspiration indeed!! Thank you!

:shocked::thumb:


Katy... don't know what variety of garlic we've got. We acquired our first "seed" for that years ago....under different female management......
As for the onions, the only thing between the rows at the moment is mulch.
It's almost too wet to plant here, as well, but the soil is like moist coffee grounds in most places. That's why it's hard to quit hauling in material.
Once you discover the formula for building Eden-type soil (hard work), where do you draw the line ?

More pics forthcoming as the season progresses.

I haven't started anything yet, but the wheels have definitely begun to turn! Oh, and I have another random cuke coming up in my ofra....funny! I have yet to plant the OTHER cuke in the bucket, nor the other tomatillos

i am interested in your onions when do you start them , what varieties and are they from seed or set.

very nice looking gardens

Well, I couldn't take it any longer...I had to jump in on the fun too. I got turned on to this thread through mudburn's blog. I have really enjoyed reading the stories and seeing the pictures on here!

Here's our current pile after a fresh turn and addition of some grass clippings and old planer shavings.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...cs/compost.jpg

Forerunner & Lori, Your gardens are beautiful! The photos should be in a gardening magazine!
I do have a question. We have a huge pile of horse manure/sawdust/crushed corncob bedding. We usually just spread it on the pasture late in Winter. Because of this thread, I convinced my husband to leave it alone and I have been adding kitchen "waste" to it and am now starting to add what little green stuff I have (weeds, lawn clippings). The pile is going to be predominately manure/bedding for quite awhile. I know I will add leaves in the fall, but don't have alot of other things to add. Do you have any other suggestions or should I just keep adding what little green stuff I can get? Also, the more I hear about horse manure and weed problems, the more I hesitate to use it. I would hate not to use such a great "gift" from my 5 equines!
Thanks, Sue

This afternoon we just spread one of our compost piles to make a new garden. Several 600 to 800 lb pigs, a sheep, a few chickens, brush, wood shavings and a lot of other good stuff went into this pile. Now it's rich black gold. Even the bones dissolve. 83 cubic-yards of weed free instant garden. Right now the chickens are picking it over. I'll rake it smooth, what they don't handle, tomorrow and then fence them out so I can plant. I love not weeding. The plants love that deep, fluffy rich garden bed.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa

I'm not a composting expert, but when I was gleaning goodies from the local stables, I found that there was a pretty good ratio between the bedding and manure. I even sheet-composted some of it.

Today, because we're just plain out of compost for my (yet again oversized) gardens, I just spread the bedding from the rabbits and goats right into the garden, covering the weeds but not touching the bedding stock. It's worked before, and with all this rain, I need something out there to soak up all that "wet" lying around.

(We planted a few replacement trees yesterday, and almost had to scoop water out of the holes. I don't expect we'll have to worry about watering those for a couple of days.)

Onions are a study for me.
I'm still learning by doing.....

The onions in the pics are sets. I broke down this spring and bought 33 pounds each of just plain "reds", whites" and "yellows".
We never have had too many onions, and I wanted to see if we ever could. :)

I do have some sweet Spanish whites that I am propagating from seed, and attempting to save seed.
I have a few sets of those from last year, as well as some nice red sets that kept very well over winter.
Hoping to get some good seed from both those varieties later.

The onions that I have started from seed....the Spanish whites, last year and this.... both in February.... did very well, and some even made baseball sized bulbs, from seed..... in one season....
I was happy.

It's taking me some time, what with mishaps, bad weather and ignorance slowly being overcome, but I want to make lots and lots of onions from my own stock every year, sustainably.

They sure grow good in rich, black, composty soil.

Sue, do keep adding whatever you come up with to that pile.
The manure/bedding base is the best foundation there is for a compost pile.
Manure provides nitrogen and multiple bacteria strains. The bedding provides carbon and trapped oxygen.
Whatever you add to that mix, for variety, is icing on the cake.
If your pile is big enough to heat, weeds seeds won't be much of a problem.
Now the few weeds that do grow on the shell of your pile need to be pulled and turned into the pile so that they don't go to seed.
I need to do that to a couple of my piles soon.....
I'm planning to use the bulldozer to do it, and then level the pile off to about five feet deep rather than ten, blade in some long rows and plant melons and peppers in it. (rubs hands together, cackling merrily at the thought)
I might even do some before, during and after pitchers. :)

As for the beauty of the gardens, thank you.
I have inspiration from out of this world, so to speak.

There are more pics of the gardens and misc. here....

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sho...d.php?t=339842

:umno:... look harder

My humblest apologies.....

These tater vines are now approaching three feet.

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...T/100_4389.jpg

Let's analyze.....
This tater is in pure, finished compost.
It benefits from excellent drainage.
It gets half sun, each day, being positioned directly against the east side of the house.
It wasn't planted earlier than other taters this year.

:shrug:

It really wasn't even planted......just tossed out with some rougher looking red taters residual from a kitchen project, then buried lightly in some other compostable or another.

All I know is, I have one super red potato going on here, and I plan to turn the rest of this ten acres tillable (roughly) into the same stuff that's making THAT tater go nuts.:bouncy:

I'm new to the HT forum and after many years of wanting I am finally starting to live my homesteading dream. I am moving from NW Atlanta this weekend to my new 10 acre homestead farm in Alabama.

The preceding has nothing to do with this thread per se, but there was nowhere else for me to introduce myself and after spending the entire night last night reading this thread from start to finish I feel like I know some of you already, so there you have it.

Michael

Perfect. :)

Glad to have you aboard.

two spirit in the traditional native american way I take it?

Quite observant of you. Good call.

total newby question
 

This is an amazing thread. Thank you, Forerunner. I have a very ignorant, newby question. When you spread the compost on your garden, do you need to put mulch OVER it to keep the weeds from growing? Or does the compost itself count as mulch? Can I plant, say, a bean plant, and then just put a big pile of finished compost all around the plant stem and expect not to have grass and weeds growing right up to it? Or should I put straw / chipped wood or something on top of the compost?

Properly heated compost won't allow many weed seeds to survive.
Compost should be tilled in, but can be used as a side dressing after planting.
It shouldn't be used for top mulching if for no other reason than it is simply too valuable. When I top dress with compost, I always cover with a more benign, carbon-based mulch to protect my compost from sunlight.
That top dressing (leaves, straw, light coat of sawdust, woodchips, etc.)
also serves as the final weed suppressant, conserves moisture and feeds the worms for the duration.

Something I learned in college...don't know if it did me any good to learn it...wish I could have learned of folk medicine instead! :)

Speak to me please of composting ashes and charcoal from a slash pile. We burned several piles along the lake shore and it really needs to be cleaned up a little more, but I am concerned with how that might make my new and growing compost pile get really out of balance. My pile consists of probably 60% old dry hay and the rest is wet fresh cow manure and kitchen scraps. It is pretty small still and the chickens work at it everyday. Please advise.
Thanks,
Trisha

Spread your clean ash and light charcoal directly on soil that you want to sweeten.
Ash reacts with nitrogen, driving it out of the pile and into the atmosphere.
Very seldom do I mix ashes with my compost....and even when I do, likely enough I shouldn't.

Thank you Forerunner. It just didn't feel right adding it to the compost pile.
We have very acidic soil due to all the pine trees, so I will spread it on the ground where I hope to put raised beds for a late (read Fall) garden.

Thanks for finally posting some garden pics:clap:

I'm curious about your machinery you use, the tractors, bulldozer etc. This thread has gotten so long to read through to see if you haven't already talked abotu it--so sorry if you have.

So what is a complete list of equipiment you use to handle all this, do you own it or rent or barter/borrow use of.

Do you wrench your own machines? how do you get parts when you need them, salvage? machine new stuff to jerry rig?

Does the net from your crops pay for fuel, repair, tires, fluids? Where do you salvage hydraulic fluid from? (we use trash oil from vehicles and used to have a GM mech friend who would bring us their trash oil, also have used old cooking oil). This includes fuel to collect compost materials. How much do you have delivered?

Do you barter equipment work for goods or services? (we have done this)

Do you feel composting action breaks down leaked oil and hydraulic fluid sufficiently?

I believe most of those questions could be answered by a thorough reread of this thread.
But I am curious, for whom are you seemingly attempting to collect so much of my asset-related information all at once ?

As for composting oils, they have to be in the thick and heat of the pile.
Where so composted, they do often disappear without a trace.

I could care less about your assets. I was simply asking about the practical issues of shoving all that compost around. Not everyone has the equipment to do it. If they want the equipment they need to know how to support that equipment and make it "pay". Obviously you need the equipment to manage that volume of compost.

Oil in compost--so you've had the compost tested for oil residue? Sure you're not going to "see" anything. Doesn't mean it ain't there. I'm talking diesel and hydraulic, NOT vegetable/fry oil. Because I'm sure you don't have spanking brand new equipment. Old stuff leaks.

Joseph Jenkins in his "Humanure Handbook" goes into detail about how well microbes can completely digest industrial oils. Industrial oils are what I was referring to, as well.

As for the level at which I have chosen to compost, and the equipment required, who ever said anyone had to go to matching extremes ? If they do, they will, as a matter of necessity, either have the money or the time to learn and acquire what they need.

I thought you were a big proponent for zero composting.
Why all the sudden interest ?

A simple, 50-70 horse loader tractor and a couple dump wagons....or a one ton truck with a dump bed, would be my recommendations for getting started in a productive way. That said, a pitch fork and hand cart can accomplish a lot in a day.
I still use both.

Composting does not require expensive machines. Extreme composting doesn't require expensive machines, either, but it is easier to handle and move the volume of material with the aid of machinery. That machinery does not have to be expensive, and those who value soil fertility will find ways of acquiring the necessary equipment. Said equipment would likely include a pitchfork and shovel to begin with and on a recurring basis thereafter.

Within the last year I have invested money in my composting efforts because I have been blessed through Forerunner's sharing of his endeavors with a vision of what is possible. I now have a great desire to build up the fertility of the soil on my homestead. The most important of my investments was a loader tractor in which I have invested $4,000, including a brand new set of rear tires. I also bought a dump truck in order to haul more at a time ($3,000), but one could argue that it wasn't necessary.

My yearly income during the last several years has been below $20,000 per year. It is through frugality and hard work and the blessings of God that I had the money to invest in composting. It's a small price to pay for what I see as important returns that are yet to be realized.

If I was only concerned with spreading 4"-6" of compost only on my gardens every year (or one year), I could have accomplished that without the addition of equipment. I have a 3/4 ton truck with a dump bed, a 16' trailer (and the ingenuity to unload it), and a tractor to which I can attach a grader blade. I also have a scoop shovel and a pitch fork.

I am not concerned about the presence of oils in my compost piles, nor would it be worth having the compost tested for oil. In the overall scheme of things, these are very minor concerns. The amount of mistreatment through the application of excessive amounts of chemicals and the exportation of fertility with little or no importation affecting so much farm land during the last few generations renders any worry about possible exposure to or inclusion of limited amounts of hydraulic fluid, diesel fuel, or motor oil frivolous.

One of these days, it may very well become practically impossible for me to use some/much/all of my machinery, at which point I will invest a lot more sweat equity in order to compost on a smaller scale than what I have currently undertaken. Before that time comes, I desire to have hauled in as much material, built as many compost piles, and spread as much finished compost as possible. In order to feed my family and others who have need, the fertility of the soil will be our greatest asset. There is no time to waste. . .

mudburn

thank you. I simply was thinking of other people wanting to do this on the scale you portray, what kind of resources and energy does it take. You know trying to be helpful. Personally I use a pitchfork and a hoe and a wheelbarrow. I've been reading your thread, got lost for the last several pages and wanted to ask a question. Sheesh, first I get blasted for no interest, then I get blasted for asking a question.

I didn't say zero composting. Go back and read what I said.

Finally?
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sho...d.php?t=339842

Forerunner,
I was looking back on some of this post and noticed it looks like you have a hammermill that you use to schred leaves and hammer bones? Since there is one on this farm and not in use now, wondering if I might used it for that/those purposes.

you kind of asked a lot of questions which seemed to be loaded. Read the thread. I know it's long but there is a huge amount of valuable info and you will be able to answer most of your questions. I for one am grateful for furerunner and mudburn sharing how they do it. I see how hard they work for their farms and families and it inspires me to keep going knowing that there are like minded people out there.

Mine works great for bones. The only leaves I tried were just a tad damp. Worked until the screen plugged.
Mine is a heavy old Bear Cat, and handles large cow bones well.
If you've a lighter model, I'd start with smallish bones and work my way up to a cow leg. The process does make a fine bonemeal product, and I'm due to run a few barrels of dry bones.

loaded--I'm on another gardening forum which had a great thread on the economics in farming/selling/equipment costs/payback/scale etc. It was a great thread because people actually discussed the practical nuts and bolts--or, "the sustainability of theory", and I thought it would be a good question in this thread. At 14 pages it's getting unweildy to read through and gather info like this--it's always good to gather and sum up periodically in such a long thread anyways(unless, apparently, the wrong person asks the question).

but, whatever, this isn't the first thread I've been bucked off of for saying "count the cost before taking on responsibility".