Local futures - helping others become more resilient

Thanks for organizing us, Carla....see- it just takes a leader!

Sorry you can't come Jerngen! Catch you next time!

Don't worry about recognizing us - just listen for the table that is talking about cow manure, chickens, dogs, sheep, milk and cheese (all at once). DH says we give him whiplash so I leave him at home.

" I wish there were something like this in Virginia"
NoClue, the PEC - Piedmont Environmental Council - plus various groups connected with organic and beyond organic such as Voices for Biological Farming and Permaculture and Local Food Project plus even some ag agents are producing wonderful seminars and workshops in Virginia. Will Allen will be in Lynchburg March DGF

Well ?????

How did it go ?

__________________
“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

Lunch was GREAT. It was fun to meet some of the HST friends and get to know them! Only next time, I hope we can sit at a more ROUND table so we can hear and see each other better. There were 8 of us at Lunch. I am ready for a Mid-Michigan get-to-gether (how about your house, George?)

The program was interesting. There were just over 20 people there. The organizers presented their aim of bringing together grower(think CSA's) and comsumers...but they weren't really clear on HOW they expected to accomplish that. There was a lot of discussion of trying to get CSA's and Co-ops to come, but I don't know what they plan on offering for them if they were to attend. Perhaps more customers? They also want to have classes/programs each month. Not sure why we were there except to give our opinions - which I am always glad to do. I just didn't have anything concrete to give an opinion about. The HST people kind of tipped the scales, perhaps they were thinking more people attending would need to be convinced to do something about their life-styles. But, instead, they got US.....

I disagreed with some of the political philosphies, but there was much food for thought presented. There is much good in what they want to accomplish, but I didn't understand how their calendared events will get them there. Not sure what they want US to do. I hope others that attended will chime in. Their take is probably quite different than mine.

In all honesty - The film about Cuba seemed like a propaganda movie to me. Lots of salesmanship with little substance in exactly WHAT they did or HOW they did it -other than that they did. I don't say that to take anything away from what Cuba has done for themselves. They have done wonderfully - lead the world in organic growing and organic research ( I looked that up online, not from the movie). But, if you have ever watched a film that China made about itself, you know what I mean. The film certainly gave a good view of what it might be like without oil. (and imports) Using UN calorie guidelines to decide how much food everyone gets to eat a day was actually a new idea to me. I had to keep reminding myself that this is a communist country and things are just different there. Some impressive health benefits that have happened since their diets have been changed to mostly organic were mentioned.

I have a hard time putting myself inside the heads of people that are just becoming aware that they need to think about possibly maybe growing some of their own food. I didn't appreciate the statement of how are we going to prevent "hoarding" so everyone can have food. There was no discussion on that point.

It was great meeting other HT'ers from this area and getting to know them as real people.

As for the film, I tried to stay objective, but, I get skeptical when I do the outside homework and find other opinions and viewpoints arguing just as strongly. You can make some of your own decisions about that by using Good Friend Google and keying in "Peak Oil--Cuba".. Lots of stuff there, including nearly all the video on U-Tube format, I believe..

The local group, whose party we crashed, weren't aware of this HT website. We encouraged them to check in and follow the discussions, as nearly all of them admitted to being novice gardeners, at best. If I am asked for any recomendations, I will suggest they choose a place in a high traffic area in town and start their own demonstration vegetable plot from scratch. They will get the hands on experience they need, and then the project will become alive. Having noble intentions of changing from "factory agriculture to permaculture" sounds good as an interesting inetellectual discussion, but when you work up a sweat--holding a gardening book in one hand and a trowel in the other, with everybody watching you plant the roots up, you quickly learn how to walk your talk.

My opinion is that the Cuba model, as practiced in a dictatorship where nobody is allowed the freedom of choice, would be unworkable in a democratic society, where private land ownership is the basis of freedom. The technique; that of learning how to deal with the possible scarcities of fuel(and water, in the US) is worth taking a look at. Isn't that what we're doing here on this forum? However, the Cuban technique, because it is associated with a Communist dictatorship, becomes a hard sell in most areas, especially conservative SW Michigan. Those techniques won't be an automatic transfer to Michigan, either, with a completely different climate and soil system. In the future, I will be suggesting they take a real look at the French 'potager' systems which have survived the test of many hard times(how many world wars?) in a climate more like ours here.

how about your house, George?

Bring your rakes, hoes, gloves, trunkloads of manure, new seeds, and...........

I would be much more inclined to participate in a "local resource" list gathering attempt. The goals they had (I think they had some), seemed to me to be way too lofty!! I'm not worried about feeding the world, just me!! I heard discussion during lunch that leads me to believe we have alot of resources just amongest ourselves- canning, cheese making, gardening, etc. I have started a list of resources that I have, or know of, if anyone wishes to add to it, just PM me. Let's keep it local, SW Mi only!! I'm also looking into starting a discussion group along these same lines. Ideas and/or suggestions would be welcomed!!

Getting the chance to meet fellow HT'ers was fun. A great group of like minded folks. I hope we can do it again.

The movie for me was a hard sell. Like the others have mentioned, Cuba faced the oil crisis as a communist nation. In the US, our reaction to such a crisis would be much different. We are a much more free thinking society than Cuba. I couldn't relate to the movie simply because it used Cuba as the model.

I came away with the feeling that the organizers of the meeting don't have a clear vision of their goals. They show a movie about an entire nation then talk about a local vision (of which they didn't seem to have, other than growing a garden for the first time) and how to achieve a more self reliant lifestyle. They were kind of all over the place with ideas. I got the feeling they were asking for help more than anything.

One thing they hope to achieve is to bring local suppliers/growers together with people who wish to purchase on a local level and as we left they offered a sign up sheet to any grower who might be interested in participating.

I know some of the organizers personally and they have stated to me their goal as consumers is to buy everything they can within a 5-10 mile radius of their home. While I think that's a noble goal, it's also going to be very difficult to achieve, IMO. But it's a place to start.

All in all, I left the meeting a bit confused as to exactly what it is they're trying to do. Maybe as the months progress, they'll be better able to define just what it is they're trying to accomplish.

__________________
~Carla~

I have to agree with the above posts, meeting fellow HT folks was the best part of the day, lunch was good and I second the idea of a round table, both at the restaurant and discussion, and another get together. As for the presentation, it wasn't what I expected I guess. I think that a lot of people in the US are moving (being pushed) in the direction of becoming more self sufficient, and I'm not sure what the goal of this group is, education, encouragement, guess I had hope for more "hands on" information. It's hard to equate the Cuban situation to the US, that was a dictatorship and several of the solutions would not fly in this country (the government is going to tell us how many calories we can have and that we can't keep the food we produce for ourselves, I don't think so!) Yes George, I have hoes, rakes, etc. The great thing about the US is our ability to adapt and find a solution to any challenges thrown our way. I think this was preaching to the choir for the HT group.

__________________
Enjoy life, it has an expiration date.

Here are some thing I think a group like this would be good for:
1. Approaching a city council about use of collected leaves - could they be made available for people to compost?
2. Teaching any kind of gardening/other skills classes
3. APproaching city councils about use of space for a community garden

They perhaps wanted to cover other topics - such as energy, transportation, housing, etc. But we kept them focused on food.

I think they want to facilitate OTHERS doing the doing, rather than what I expected - them DOING.

Community Organizers come to mind. Not a bad thing itself, but as Besty said - different than what I expected. Yep -for the group that was there, they were preaching to the choir!!!! Good folks, not well organized yet.

When I heard about the meeting, I was intrigued.
I'm not a community organizer..... too busy taking life too seriously, I guess.
I do admire the sincere in their efforts to get something started along these lines. I say forget about Cuba, and the fact that these folks chose to use that country for their example.
Concentrate on the spirit of the thing.
These people had the courage to throw together a socially packaged cry for help..... and the lot of you showed up.
Lest there be evidence of something less than noble in their intentions, were I a reasonably geographic local to their "movement", I'd avail myself to their further education and experience building opportunities.

Michigan has long held a place very near and dear to my heart, what with so many memories there and family scattered throughout.
I have contemplated the economic situation there with an eye for what may be lying under your collective noses, going to waste....
With proper motivation, there is no reason that Michigan couldn't become an organic utopia that could not only feed itself, but pull itself out of economic stagnance with food-based horticulture.

I would love to come up there and look around for all the sources of organic composting material that are just taking up someone's valuable space.
If these meetings persist, I will just have to find a way.

I support the community efforts, but, one of the key differences between communist/socialist and what we'd like to think we are is economically and morally strong families.
I'd far rather see a few key independent players make the effort to set the example than see the community effort fall on it's face for the proven handicap of assumed socialism (you know, let someone else do the work).

__________________
“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

"These people had the courage to throw together a socially packaged cry for help..... and the lot of you showed up."

Hey, we had on our Sunday-go-to-meetin' clothes, well, sort of....... our shoes were clean and nobody wore their barn jackets......

But I hear you. Another 500,000 folks in Mighigan will go dry at the end of this month if nobody extends(for yet another time) their supplemental unemployment benefits...... And a lot of the problem seems to be that they just sort of vanish, leaving vacant homes scattered all about. They have already lost their gardening space.....

As for this area becoming an organic utopia, it might be, and I certainly hope so, but it will take more sweat and intelligence than meets the eye. We have sand and water, and the topography separates it out into dry knolls, and wetlands. The ideal, farmable land is already taken by the thousands of acres of fruit farming, leaving only marginal acreage for other purposes, and it was quickly worn out a few generations ago by corn farming, pig, beef, and dairy production. Farming and gardening around here takes huge inputs of organic biomass, or commercial fertilizer. If one goes organic, he has to do it by having surplus space to grow it, or otherwise transfer, or even steal it from another area. In a backyard, town situation, it will take all the leaves from that town to support only a few gardens. The sand is nearly inert, and it has to have help--at least that's what I have found. Animal manures certainly help, but you must consider the same surplus space requirements for them, and one other factor is that you have to contend with the moisture levels in sand--one almost needs irrigation, at least as a backup, during the hotter parts of our growing season.

Let's face it, since WWII and Victory Gardens, we have nearly lost the set of genes for the knowlege of plants, animals, and food prep. But I think it's doable, and I think we all offered a hand to the Wayland group if they ask for it in the future. Down deep in my gut, though, I think it will take another round of four dollar gas to turn the heat back on, in a lot of cases.. Pappy always said, "You can lead a horse to water, if he's thirsty enough..."

I am not sure they were there to get something started - that's what I thought they were there for... perhaps I just missed it. I think they were there try to make people aware, which we already were.

The question that wasn't asked: "Where do we go from here?" so we were left wondering. Perhaps we are to fill in what was missing?

I honestly think people need the BASICS first. Basic gardening instruction. Basic canning/freezing/drying - then the next steps can be taken - community gardens, community composting.

Forerunner- maybe you need to make yourself into a community composting consultant - visit community dignitaries and encourage/teach them about the benefits, etc. You consult and they do the work. If you were supported by some kind of group in the various locations....you can see the results that might be possible.

Geo in Mi - Howdy! neighbor.....perhaps some gardening classes are right up your alley? does your town have a library? Or some place you could hold them? A company that would support you and let you make copies there?

Those kinds of ideas was what I was expecting....

Geo- I totally agree - gardening for masses would be much more difficult in MI than in Cuba. That's why I am more a supporter of folks growing for themselves.

So - where do you think WE need to go from here?

"So - where do you think WE need to go from here?" I'm going to see who WE is, first. After all, in about three more weeks, WE'LL have to stop pontificating and start plowing. Almost springtime, you know, gotta get the crops in..... But I'll be around.

So, your vote is to either work quickly - or just get to work as usual? Teach by example? I like it! But I don't have any plowing to do.

You know..... a lot of these ideas are already running in place where we just moved from in the Upper Peninsula.
The local co-op for Marquette http://marquettefood.coop/ Not only tried to get all their goods/produce as locally as possible..... they are also instrumental in expanding the Farmers Market, constant continous community outreach and education on everything from composting, gardening, CSA farms, food preservation, lifestyles (vegetarian etc.), many different cooking classes, etc. etc .
They have "tour your local farm" days twice a year where you go and meet the local producers who supply the co-op and area Farmers Markets. They are basically just VERY involved in reaching out to the community.

Perhaps someone can forward that link to the organizers of Saturdays gathering, I'm sure they can at least get some pointers from the folks up there. The gal who's in charge of the Outreach program actually grew up just north of Grand Rapids.

I am very, very surprised that there isn't already something like this down here? The U.P. is usually behind the times so I figured they were all over the rest of the country.

Edited: The city of Marquette has a yard waste/compost area which is open to the residents in addition to two large community gardens area where residents could have their own garden plots and work amongst other fellow gardeners.

We are still very new to this area down here, but I thought I would mention this farm/CSA/homestead which is local to Kalamazoo area.

http://www.lakevillagehomestead.org/index.htm

We haven't personally been there yet but I read about them somewhere (the local paper?).
Would love to see what resources you all in the southwest MI area are aware of!

I think that's what this group might have found out on Sat....that they are coming late to the ball game and perhaps trying to invent something that is already there. They are newly aware of local resources. I think most of their focus was to try to educate us that we might need to entertain the idea that life might change someday and adjust our lives accordingly. But, they were preaching to the choir - as Besty said. We kiltered their discussion. It was a little nudge to perhaps see what we could do to educate others. They are interested in keeping the CSA operating by giving their support.

In MY area, I wonder if i could even teach gardening classes. We are surrounded by orchards, small fruits, asparagus fields, and crop fields. Tomatoes, squash, beans, corn, peppers, and tomatillos, watermelon...those are the ones I noticed. Many driveways - sport fruit and vegetable stands - on your honor system. Their are lots of vineyards - lots. I spent the summer enjoying the fruits of other's labors.

Treemendous Fruits
Grandpa's Orchard
Frank's Farm
There is an organic orchard just south of I 94 near Watervliet - I forget the name. I met the lady that owns it - Margo. They will make cidefrom the varieties of apples that you pick - while you wait.
Those are just the named farms that I frequented. There are more over to the Berrien Springs area also.

Near Finnville is Earl's - we picked strawberries there but they also had spring peas! Yummy!

I know of NO CSAs here though.

Yes, Callie I think you nailed it. They are coming in late on this. It's new to them and I guess they thought it was new to everyone else as well. I would love to have been a mouse in the corner to hear what their comments were after the movie. I wonder if they were surprised that our group was already ahead of their plans. I knew you would have much to offer the group and was glad to hear you speak up. Too bad you're not close enough to take this thing over. You would do a marvelous job of focusing and directing them.

CSA's: Here's a link with good info on CSA's. http://www.localharvest.org/

__________________
~Carla~

Thank you so much for posting that! I've just spent the last hour or so exploring all that this area we just moved to has to offer! I'm getting very excited now!
I even found a co-op that appears to be of the same mold as the one we left behind in the U.P.