NAIS to be Scrapped!!!!!

Yes and what is coming maybe even worse then what was originally set up. because O is FOR the program and you have a house full of Dem's now that would like nothing more to set up programs like this. Mark my words some will say "should have gone with the originally one, now LOOK what is happening".

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Eliminate the factory/corporate farms.

But that would have dire consequences. How would all the people in the urban areas survive with no food?

NAIS has never been about food safety. It has been about the government knowing the quantity of raw foodstuffs in the U.S.

There was a case dealing with wheat sometime about WWII. A man had raised more than his alloted production and was going to use the excess to feed his animals and family. Govt. stepped in and said that his excess would wreak havoc on Commerce.

Is anyone aware that USDA is wanting to move (if they haven't already) their quarantine facility from an island in the NYC area to Iowa?

I've still got my nomex suit and tinfoil hat on.

As for seeking the opinion of small time producers, uh, when? After the first regs were supposed to be put in place.

And regarding livestock sales, shows, and fairs; the people in charge already have my name and address. I personally have stated I would like to know if my animals were exposed to something at shows or sales. But the govt does not need to know that I took x number of steers to a sale unless there is a problem. But who does the testing for disease? Who has the guidelines for quarantine until the results come back? Who is in charge of notification of exposure? And where are the requirements of the papertrail of testing and vaccs when a sale involves individual parties? If I show cattle at the fair why does the govt need to know I also keep chickens?

The whole thing was never set up to help the small time producers. It was set up as a govt subsidized way for factory farms to keep records of livestock movement. Info which was never to be shared with the public. Again I will ask, if NAIS was set up as a disease control system where are the requirements for testing and quarantine? Where are the guidelines for notification of those whos animals could possibly be infected? Where are the guidelines for laboratory requirements? Where are the vaccinations requirements?

Another point I want to add, when the swine flu was a big headline and regions were setting up quarantine and reporting systems the main focus was prevention of the spread of disease. Go back to those regulations of you want an example of how to track and control the spread of disease.

oneokie
I thought they was moving it to Kansas. They decided to move it in stead of updating the old one. It was their disease research facility I was thinking about, not for sure if we are talking about the same thing or not.

That would be a smart move. Just look at how big the USDA Testing lab is in Ames, Iowa. SO getting the quarantine place closer just makes good business and economic sense.
And this NAIS tracing started way back when the ISO was started world wide.
And being this is about the health of animals and getting a fast track BACK to the original farm is good for all concerned. From the animals concerned and the health of food going into the food chain. So animal health and the health concerned of neighboring farms so nothing gets transmitted, and keeping the Food Healthy as well.
Heck even Mickey D's want it, besides many veterinarians as well. I know my vet does, and so do his other vets he has talked to.
And all these farms now that have Bio Security a vet can't even come in without Changing into other special clothes. Even visitors can't Just "Pop In".
This is the Future of farming. They ARE a business after all, producing a Product just like any other type of business. Good for the country, good for the world. And tracing back in case something is wrong is important for all concerned.

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It may have been Kansas. It has been about 2 years or longer in the past that the agricultural publications were putting forth the information. And it may have been their research facility.

Either one would not be good for agriculture by being located in the middle of the country.

1-Maybe a smart move for the Govt., but real dumb for food safety. 1 oopsie and there is no telling what the end result would be.

2-Good business and economic sense for the processors of food stuffs. They
will not be paying for the costs associated with traceability.

3-There are safeguards in place now that for all practical purposes keep sick
and diseased animals from entering the food chain. And they are enforced
on the local level because the entity receiving the animals want to be sure
that if there is the possibility of a problem with an animal, they don't want
it in their lap.

4-The quality of food entering the consumer market should rest solely on the
Company that turns the raw foodstuff into a marketable product.
Remember the peanut butter mess? Remember the E-coli incidents?
Those things happened because the companys processing the raw products
cut corners in food handling safety to bolster their bottom line.

5-This is the responsibility of APHIS, and the processor of the raw product.
See #4 above.

6-Sure they want it. Makes for a good marketing plan. Good for the Vet.too,
as it bolsters his bottom line. Small producer with just a few animals is not
going to spend the money to purchase the expensive equipment to do the
RFID. He will have the Vet. do it for him. All treatments will have to be
encoded into the chip, along with birth date, dam information, premise
location, and such.

7-Works for the corporate/factory farm because it reduces their health costs.
Lull the ignorant masses into a false sense of security.

Now just where do you think the USDA does their testing? in the middle of the country..... Ames, Iowa. The have Huge USDA Labs and holding facilities their. Did you not know that? Ames has been the number one spot for years and years for all sorts of laboratory testing, and having animals there in separate holding areas and such.
in fact that is one of the largest veterinarian schools also in the country is in Ames. Why? Because the USDA Lab is there.

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I am aware of the USDA facility in Ames, Iowa. Have been for years.

This link: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_hea...info_services/ is their home page.

This link: http://ars.usda.gov/main/site_main.h...de=36-25-30-00 has links to various things done there.

This link: http://ars.usda.gov/research/project...de=36-25-30-10
tells about infectious bacterial diseases being researched. None are what would be IMO called catastrophic diseases. All listed are causes of economic losses to producers.

This link: http://ars.usda.gov/research/project...de=36-25-30-20 is for diseases that IMO are caused by man and his greed to squeeze every penny out of food animals by cutting corners or using medications off label and then dumping his problem on some unsuspecting person.

This link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Is...ement_facility is to the place in New York.

An internet search on the USDA Ames Iowa facility gives me cold chills as to what goes on there, security wise.

I don't trust them to just drop the issue. I think they will change the name and make another run at us. They are just like the president. They don't think what they were trying to do was wrong, they just think they did'nt explain it so that we simple people could understand.

Let's not go dropping our guard and getting so giddy that they can just sneak back up on us unaware.

They never understood our point of view. I think it is ok to have the program just make it entirely VOLUNTARY. That way the big exporters who claim it will help them can spend their money and time and effort to be in the deal. Us smaller guys who have no interest in it and would derive no benefit from it can go on about our business without this silly burden.

My tracking system is pretty simple already and much more effective than anything they proposed. You buy something from me and have a problem with it you know exactly where it came from and who to talk to. No bureaucrats required.

So Rambler, you are complaining what "we" have done in killing NAIS and how us small timers are killing the farmer producers because we just want it our way but you dont seem to be on board with the USDA. According to them only 36% of the producers were behind NAIS so that means 64% were not supportive of it and that makes you in the minority on this issue. Some of you act like every farmer and rancher was for NAIS but the majority were not and just like health care reform, the voice of the citizens were heard. Now if we could all band together and do something about term limits!!!

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I have studied the NAIS facts. I have read the NAIS myths. I have read many posts on HT. I have tried to counter the half truths with actual front line experiences and explanations.

While all the time I’ve spent on this hasn’t changed anyone’s mind, it has given me some insight to how people cling to lies so long that they can’t see the truth. It has provided me with a better understanding why the people of Haiti believe that AIDS can be cured by intercourse with a virgin. There are no facts to support their position, it is hurtful to the population, yet they won’t open their eyes and see the facts.

I’ve cut parts of a few recent posts and will respond to them.

“Eliminate the factory/corporate farms.” Nope, that won’t stop animal diseases. The factory farms have a lower diseases rate that the smaller farms. I take no pride in that truth, I wish it weren’t true, but facts are facts.

”But that would have dire consequences. How would all the people in the urban areas survive with no food?”

That’s right. Those big operations can produce a lot of food at a smaller cost. You and I might want to press for more free range chickens, but does the public want to support that with higher prices? Doubtful. Are farrowing crates inhumane? Looks like it to most people. But if you look back in farming history, you’ll see sows laying on her young, killing them. This isn’t something you want to go back to, is it? More dead babies and costlier pork? Nope.

”NAIS has never been about food safety. It has been about the government knowing the quantity of raw foodstuffs in the U.S.”

I’ll give you a half point for this, NAIS has never been about food safety. NAIS is about livestock safety, limiting the spread of disease. In the event livestock get a disease that gets into the meat and can be contracted by humans, then, and only then, limiting the spread of livestock diseases becomes a food safety issue, in a sort of round about way. Every morning on the farm report, I see how many hogs were sold and the prices, I see how much they aree going to sell for in a few months. I know what corn sold for last year and what the contracts for August are selling for. It is all there. Since you don’t need to tag your cow until you are headed off to the sale, etc, there isn’t any data about how many cows you have. You are simply spreading yet another one of the myths.


”There was a case dealing with wheat sometime about WWII. A man had raised more than his allotted production and was going to use the excess to feed his animals and family. Govt. stepped in and said that his excess would wreak havoc on Commerce.”

Personally, I don’t like farm subsidies. But they exist. Long after WWII, the USDA sought to stabilize the price farmers got for wheat. The price would shoot up one year and then drop below production costs the next. This fluctuation was putting farmers out of business. The government would pay farmers a set amount if the value of wheat dropped below a preset “break even “point. Without limits on this subsidy, farmers could plant every acre to wheat and collect lots of government money. So limits were set. If you want a price support, you can get it on a limited number of acres. If you don’t want the subsidy, you could grow as much as you wanted, without any price support. If you grow more acres than you were allotted, you don’t get your subsidy.

”Is anyone aware that USDA is wanting to move (if they haven't already) their quarantine facility from an island in the NYC area to Iowa?”

This is news to you? It is costly to operate a quarantine on an island. That facility is in need of an update. You want to reduce the cost of government? Well you are getting what you wished for.

“6-Sure they want it. Makes for a good marketing plan. Good for the Vet.too,
as it bolsters his bottom line. Small producer with just a few animals is not
going to spend the money to purchase the expensive equipment to do the
RFID. He will have the Vet. do it for him. All treatments will have to be
encoded into the chip, along with birth date, dam information, premise
location, and such.”

McDonalds wants traceback for one reason, money. They discovered that the public wants traceback, so as a huge buyer of beef, they are free to set up whatever regulations they want. If you are calling the Vet to tag your livestock, you are enjoying a yuppie hobby farm. The tags are two bucks. The installation tool, clamp, is about $50 , but they last forever and you can borrow one from a neighbor. You start off with those myths and then drop into tinfoil hat zone with a bunch of outright lies about programming the RFID. It shows you don’t know anything about what you fear. There is no encoding of al that crap. Give it up!

“They never understood our point of view. I think it is ok to have the program just make it entirely VOLUNTARY. That way the big exporters who claim it will help them can spend their money and time and effort to be in the deal. Us smaller guys who have no interest in it and would derive no benefit from it can go on about our business without this silly burden.”

You, the small farmers, refused to get involved. There were notices sent out over the span of years. In fact, the first NAIS thread I responded to on HT was critical that the USDA was offering free sandwiches and cola at their NAIS discussion meetings. They wanted our input. NAIS is voluntary, but once the noNAIS clan started their misinformation campaign, emotions kicked in and there was no stopping the rumors.
If you aren’t selling livestock off the farm, there is no need to tag your cattle. There is no need to track. It takes two points to create a line. If they start and end at your place, traceback, traceforward isn’t an issue. This was covered in NAIS. The noNAIS acknowleged this, but in a twisted way. They pointed out that a big farmer that raised all his herd in one group, known as “all in, all out” didn’t need to tag, claiming this offered an unfair advantage to the “big guys”, ignoring that some of us small operations are that way, too.
You need to educate your self on how the market works. If the “big guys” use traceback to secure a huge overseas market, it effects you because the market runs on supply and demand. If it costs you $200 to buy and grow a hog, your ability to find a buyer that will pay $200, depends on what a hog sells for at the local livestock auction. The auction price reflects the supply-demand connection. If a big exporter gets an overseas contract for a million hogs, the price at your local sale will jump and you can make money. If your pasture raised organic hogs sell for $100 above the market, can’t you see the advantage for a spike in the market price?

”My tracking system is pretty simple already and much more effective than anything they proposed. You buy something from me and have a problem with it you know exactly where it came from and who to talk to. No bureaucrats required.”

Let’s also assume you know the folks you bought each animal from. Your plan is about two hundred years outdated. In today’s world, those cattle you buy at a local market might have lived in several states or at least been exposed to cows from a wide range. With NAIS the TB infected cow in CA, was traced back to MI.

“According to them only 36% of the producers were behind NAIS so that means 64% were not supportive of it and that makes you in the minority on this issue.”

You are making a huge jump here. 36% of producers bothered to sign on to the NAIS program. Remember it is voluntary. Only 1% of the people in this country read the bible today. Does that mean that 99% of the people in this country are against the bible? Of course not. That is the logic you are trying to use with voluntary compliance in NAIS. The 36% is the number of farmers that were so strongly in favor of NAIS to take the steps to comply with it. The 64% that you cite is the percentage of farmers that simply didn’t bother.

Two points that are debateable.


This is news to you? It is costly to operate a quarantine on an island. That facility is in need of an update. You want to reduce the cost of government? Well you are getting what you wished for.

Are you willing to trade lower cost for disease prevention for a much greater potential risk to the country as a whole?



You, the small farmers, refused to get involved. There were notices sent out over the span of years.

I studied the NAIS and all of its reincarnations put forth by the USDA and made the decision that I would not participate.

Saying someone refused to get involved because they made an informed decision not to participate is, IMO, typical bureaucratic double speak.

Did you personally receive a notice of a public meeting within a reasonable distance of where you are located? Did you ever see a notice in a local newspaper, farm publication, newsletter from your state livestock board or association?

NAIS has NOT been dropped! It has been changed to the New Animal Disease Traceability Framework. I just heard it on Derry Brownfield. I would recommend that everyone listen to the replay of his show today. GCN has the replay 24 hours a day. It has been taken from 1200 pages to 7. Premise ID has been taken out. It is still all about control of the food and your property.
http://www.feedstuffs.com/ME2/dirmod...D8F567D2394BF7

http://www.ilfb.org/viewdocument.asp...24&r=0.1251642

Hope this helps!

I think arabian is trying out the Jedi Mind Trick. Sorry, didn't work. Try again.

Your bailing a sinking ship with a spoon haypoint; like it or not its dead and if small producers and/or the 64% that were apparently too lazy to sign up for it never got involved then why did it die like it did. You are all for big government we get that, but you keep telling us that we are repeating myths and when we point out and refer you to the USDA site which conflicts with much of what you keep saying you just revert to your "myths" mantra.

I would also be curious to know your source for the 1% reading the bible...seems to me it is your logic that may be flawed.

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It took less than 2 minutes on Google to find this GOVT site:

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getf...TELPRDC5068314

The FIRST section talks about using "840" (RFID) tags on CHICKENS

I dont think you looked very hard

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the 840 tags do also go into all of the cattle that go to the sale barns

Perzackly!

Never forget one of the three biggest lies: "I'm from the govt, and I'm here to help you."

I don't see why there's such a push for this (or any) ID system. There are already laws in place for this sort of thing, and it should be handled at th state and local level -- the Fed is already a bloated behemoth. Just enforce what's there, or let the free market take care of things.

No one is going to buy from someone who sells an inferior product.

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