NAIS to be Scrapped!!!!!

Keep in mind that the Scrapies Eradication Program is still in effect, so if you have sheep or goats, you still have the tag and keep records policies.

__________________
Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Not RFID but record keeping and back tracking capabilities for the cattle industry. The RFID is not a current requirement but the record keeping is. Some big time producers and feedlots are very lax about record keeping and tagging cows.

As for the poultry, yes the NAIS would have required tagging of every batch of chickens leaving their birthplace to go to the butcher in the very first requirements. Not each individual but each batch. They were never excluded in the wording. By not excluding a species it is understood to be included. Since they have eliminated the old info I can't post it (again, I posted the info a couple times before).

Did you read the poultry link from the USDA that I posted? It said the operations with between 1 to 49 birds would face the highest costs, $1.9014 per animal. That's about the cost of an implanted RFID chip. When dealing with lawyers and legaleese you must read between the lines. The NAIS did call for individual identification of every livestock animal through use of an RFID tag or chip, unless the whole group was born and raised at one place, never comingled or housed with animals that had been comingled and left the place of birth only for slaughter. Unless a person never introduces another bird to their flock they would have to identify and register every single bird.

These costs are from the NAIS site, with the understanding that birds are lumped together in groups that were raised together from birth to slaughter:
The average cost per animal marketed is: $5.97 for cattle, $0.059 for swine and $1.39 for sheep. For poultry, the average cost per animal is $0.0195 for layers, $0.0007 for broilers and $0.0020 for turkeys.

This is the site:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/newsroom/c.../naisbca.shtml

And I did find the site that states any animal moved (including chickens) from the bithr place to another premise would need an individual id number:
http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Ahfss/Animal_...Guide12-07.pdf
Which means every bird I sell to another person would need an idividual tag.

As for the premise id, the Jews didn't object to wearing the star of David on their clothing when Hitler first required it. It was just an identification thing. I'm not saying our govt is headed that direction, but having heard the history of my ancestors I wouldn't say it's not possible.

BTW, in the Henshaw case the feds were investigating the fact their own guidelines were not followed. IMO, any such investigation is just public lip service and never goes very far.

Wasn't the Henshaw thing a decade ago? Prior to that incident and in the following decade, USDA has "depopulated" many diseased livestock. If you've got diseased livestock, I want someone to come in and kill every last one. Then, I want your place scrubbed down and you can't have more livestock until you do. You see that as the government controlling your life. I see it as the only way we can slow the spread of livestock diseases.

Feds running it or the states, either way it is here.

Shoulda picked the Saints, your side lost.

There you go. It's unbelievable. Here's an example of a pro-NAIS person, actually believing whatever the government says IS TRUE!!! How naive.

I'd like to tell you that in many instances whatever the government tells you is either half false, or else completely misleading due to political motivations. If a location in the U.S. has been designated "disease free" I would bet that it truly isn't. If you believe that "scrubbing" or disinfecting an area relieves it of viruses then you're truly mistaken (and understand that I'm not saying that it shouldn't be disinfected, irregardless). What the government tells usin many instances is only political fluff.

A system, whatever the system, run by the federal government to fix a problem so profound as relieving all livestock animals of disease, IS BOUND TO BE A FRAUD. This is because in reality, when run by the government, it wouldn't work and function as advertized. It would be flawed and not enforced well, IN REALITY. DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. It's an endemic problem with huge government systems.

Then, you may say "show me where it fails". If you said that then it's clear that you don't understand.

You can imagine how this livestock RFID plan originated. Some government egghead thought, well it works for cars in an assembly line. Why shouldn't it work for cows??? Then, all the "Mongomery Burns" types thought, and imagine all the data we call covertly collect!!! Let's do it.

This is also what I belive.

With a long history of this govt controlling people by destroying their food supply I fail to understand why some people continue to trust the govt. I have not forgotten the history and I am in no hurry to repeat it.

Well said.

USDA Sets Sights on New Plan for National Animal Identification System
According to the USDA, only 36 percent of producers were participating in the NAIS program. The new effort proposed will be more beneficial to small producers who raise animals for their own family or neighbors. They will not be part of the scope of the new plan.

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Robin

That's why I opposed NAIS. Growing our own meat is our business, not Homeland Security's. I don't see any reason why I should "register" our small farm. The animals don't go anywhere, except when I gift family or friends with meat.

If I were engage in interstate or international export, that would be a different story.

I'm glad the government is finally getting some common sense. Hope it lasts!

__________________
God bless,
Bonnie
Opportunity Farm
Northeast Washington

"While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10

Then the plan is worthless.

Your goal is to destroy regular farmers, and help yourself, hiding behind govt regulations.

Seems counter-productive.

You don't want a better system; you want a system that favors you, and hurts others.

Let's at least be honest about it.

--->Paul

Whose goal? It's a government program, not MaineFarmMom's, mine, or anyone's here at HT.

Nope. Many of us here think the government, especially Homeland Security, should just keep its nose out of our little family farms. It's the government that is in the business of favoring some businesses & penalizing others. If the corporate farms want favors, all they have to do is donate more money to campaigns & continue to put their people in strategic government jobs. Monsanto has done an excellent job.

__________________
God bless,
Bonnie
Opportunity Farm
Northeast Washington

"While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10

NAIS has been dumped into the states laps, what will change or not change is yet to be seen.

Many here, including your previous message, advocate a lot of regulations on all farms other than your own. Your own farm should not have _any_ regulation at all because you are special; but other farmers should be disadvantaged by tracking, imunization, and heavy testing regulations.

You said so yourself.

That is a double standard. You want the advantage. It's quite clear.

Other farms should bear the expense & taxes & time of dealindg with keeping animals healthy & safe. You want a free ride, no bother or fuss or cost to you whatsoever.

A free ride on the backs of other farmers.

At least be honest about that part of it. It's been expressed over & over here in the past year! I'm not saying you're a bad person. Just human nature, you want others to do the work for you.

Think about it, reflect on past messages on this topic. That's really what this has always been about. Let other's do the work for us.

--->Paul

The government should try to be honest. The real purpose of NAIS was to track all livestock movements in the U.S. for government planning and management activities.

If search and seizure isn't intrusive on the lawful liberties of farmers then I don't know what is. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Just wondering if this is in all states? What state are you in ? I am in Pennsylvania and I have not heard anything about this except here. Does anyone have a document that they have stopped it?
Thanks I would really love to see that, I think that the NAIS is really going way beyond what they should be doing. They need to leave us alone

rambler, I'm sorry you don't understand why we small timers who raise meat for ourselves and immediate family only oppose strict NAIS regulations. Most of my ducks do not leave my property, ever. We eat them here at home. I give Mom and Pop a few for Christmas or give a few to close friends. Those people know exactly where the ducks came from and the conditions in which they lived. Any of the people I give ducks or sell eggs to are free to visit my place and see where their food originates. My birds are not a contamination risk to any of Cargill or Buckeye Eggs factory farms because they never come into contact with them. The same goes with the farmers we know who raise beef cattle, pigs, or bison. I know exactly where the animals are grown and how they are raised. I can get the life history of any of those animals just by asking. I don't need the govt to collect that info and keep it from me. If I buy an animal from an individual or a sale barn I need to get the vacc history and testing history from the owner or sale barn. I would want that info and expect it to be handed over before the sale is final. I also would expect to incur the expense of having an animal vet checked once I have it in my posession. That is just part of animal ownership.

The same cannot be said for animals that have been shipped cross country and kept in huge muddy feedlots with dozens of other reject animals being held for slaughter. When you mingle hundreds of similar looking animals all together in one place you must have some way of distinguishing individuals. That is why ear tage were developed. And RFID tags for feedlot animals does make sense, no checking each tag, no room for human error or dyslexic moments. The animal just walks by the reader and instant info. If I was managing a herd of 100 milk cows I would love to have a system like that. Just pull it all up on the computer screen and you know if #53 has come in for the night or is out wandering the streets. But even if you have 500 head and they never leave your ranch except in little packages to a select list of long-term customers I don't see why the govt needs to know anything about them. The ONLY time I see the need for the govt to have any info about any livestock is if that animal enters the public food system or is involved in a disease outbreak. If the animal is involved in an outbreak the owner should be required to provide all traceback info to the USDA and CDC. IMO certain disease should be reported in animals by veterinarians just like doctors are required to report certain human outbreaks. Animals going to slaughter for public consumption should be tested for many diseases in the name of public safety.

My grandparents raised grand champion Angus cows. They were vaccinated, tested, tagged, and papered. He provided papers and records for every cow he sold. I understand more than most the paperwork and costs involved with maintaining a healthy herd. My grandparents expected the same records and papers on the cows they purchased. My grandmother kept records on her chickens, not by individuals but by flock and year of purchase. And FYI, my grandparents once lost a herd of hogs due to disease contamination. They didn't try to hide the hogs when they found out about an outbreak. They willingly destroyed the whole herd to prevent further spread of the disease. I don't know if the hogs were infected and I don't know what the disease was.

I still fail to see why the govt who can't keep track of plutonium and nuclear weapons thinks it can maintain a database on every single livestock animal in this country. The truth is, they can't. All that info will be tracked and recorded by the lowest bidder, and most likely not an American company. Are you willing to hand all your info over to China or Iraq?

You've heard the quote, "ADM, the Supermarket to the World".

DO you think that it's just a slogan? Do you think that they're not interested in eliminating the competition, even the small farmers?

GIMME MY TIN FOIL HAT. And, coat it with anti-global warming stuff.

Good post Danaus.

Makes me believe there is something cooking on the burner and it ain't gonna be pretty. This certainly bears watching as to what comes along next.

__________________
tab

The folks sitting in an office that dreamt up the framework of Nais didn't know much about farming, nor that there is any sort of difference between the contract hog operation, the 120 cow dairy operation, my few head of grazing beef, or your few poultry.

They came up with a framework of rules to try to get a handle on this situation.

For a change, this one time, they actually worked out a flexable framework & were willing to work _with_ producers. For once! This was totally different than other govt programs. They were even flexable on who would keep the records - govt or a privatly owned database. Either has positives & negatives. They were willing to work through all that, and asked for input from you & I - and the dairy next door, and the hog contractors a few miles away.

Most people got on board & worked with those in charge of Nais. The only segment that didn't was the very small producer - like you, like many here.

If only you had voiced your concerns, tried to make this work out.

By the end, your deal (raise your own, they never leave the place) were exempted from needing the animal ID's. What the heck would you need them for? That was changed. Why do you think you can't find the old documents on it????? Because it was a work in progress, and was changing to meet the needs of the people. The old documents were no longer valid - changed to try to make this work for all.

Two problems are poultry shows, and getting help from a vet. That sort of thing does contribue to spreading a disease. I'm sure something coulda been worked out. But your side is like a mule - don't want to work on it.

Just push the problems on to someone else.

No, the govt rarely does anything well, and they rarely live up to their promises, and their programs don't usually live up to the empty promises. I get that. I agree.

This was one of those rare times they were kinda going in the right direction - as much as the govt can.

People in this thread say killing it was the best thing for farmers.

No. Not at all. We _will_ end up with something. It won't be near as effective, and it won't help anyone, and none of us will be asked ever again to help design a program.

It was a terrible thing you folks did.

Gloat if you want. It'll be short lived for all of us.

--->Paul

So, what now, for the future?

Rather than dwell on the past, what is the future of livestock production in the USA????

Any ideas on how to make animals safer?

--->Paul