Logging question
 

My dh and I have about 10 or so mature cherry trees on our property. We have been told that they are veneer quality ( whatever that means!) Does anyone know the fair market value of such trees? Thanks!

See if your state's Forestry Dept has someone who can answer that for you, or get bids from a few loggers.

Who told you they were "veneer quality"?

That means they are large and "clear" enough to get top dollar by "peeling" a thin layer vs sawing into lumber

Do your homework , they could be really valuable . I sold some about 3 years ago & couldn't believe what they were worth . Don't let any loggers hoodwink you . Make sure you know what they're worth before you sell them .

I recommend you contact Forestry FIRST! They have nothing to gain by being dishonest, so should tell you the truth.

The loggers know the market value, but they most likely are not going to tell you. It sorta cuts into their profits if you are too well informed. Your best bet would be to ask around at the mills themselves, find out what they are paying for your species and grade. Prices vary greatly from one year to another, last I heard cherry was down, but that was for saw logs, not veneer, and prices for veneer while much higher can be eaten up by distance to the veneer mill. Not many peelers in my area, most veneers around here get shipped to Missouri. The freight eats into profits rapidly.

I've seen loads of veneer quality logs being transported from Ohio and Penn. clear over to a veneer mill in Mellon, Wis.
To truck them so far makes me think they must be quite valuable.

However, just being large, clear and solid doesn't mean they'll grade out to veneer quality. I've also seen loads of logs moving from a veneer mill to a sawmill because the veneer mill didn't like them.

If these trees are in your yard or near a fence line, I doubt you can sell them. Trees that are in those locations can have wire or nails in them, making them useless for veneer and many saw mills don't want then either. I saw a stack of firewood made of black walnut. The trees were along a driveway and no mill would take them out of fear of nails. I guess a magnet isn't proof enough.

DH wanted to get the most for our 2nd growth Cedars that had to be logged to give us safe distance from them (too close to our home) and also for our Orchard & Garden. We contacted the local sawmills and found out who paid the most and could mill the largest trees. Ours were too big in circumference for most mills closeby. Now, to net the most, DH did the logging himself (retired Logger Larry- cool 84 yrs young) came to oversee and make sure the operation was completed without serious accidents/injuries. The guys were very careful! The trees were felled, limbed, and then cut to the most profitable lengths. We asked local forest land owners who they hired to drive their logs. We used the name most referred for our driver. For 3 double-loads, we netted over $9,000.

I asked DH about the use of our clear Cedar (the one we just felled due to its proximity to our home---that last one that was a risk). This one is 100+ feet long. Me not knowing about Cedar...wondered about flooring, nope, DH told me it is too soft. Oh, well, it will be paneling, then!

Back to the cherry trees, off tangent LOL, you can always elect to cut them yourselves & deliver them to the Sawmill, hire a driver... It cuts into profits in a big way to hire a logger!

Veneer Logs Prime logs only
(specifications
vary with buyer).
Season: Oct to April
Red Oak:
$700-$1,000/MBF Doyle
White Oak:
$800-$1,500/MBF Doyle
Walnut and Cherry:
$700-$2,000/MBF Doyle
Some renewed interest.
Region I, II, & III
Oct
This is from TN State Bulletin.
First of all are these trees close to you? If not make surer that you have home owners insurance on the farm. The normal deal is 50 50 on logging but if these are high grade you should get much better. Even though I have said this you might want to make a deal since the logger has big equipment would it be worth having dozing work done as a part of the job.
Be on the site every day. I just shut a logger off from selling me logs because he wanted cash and only wanted one ticket. Have no proof but that means he probably was cheating the farmer he was on.

Yes you have to be wary of some loggers, they are not all honest. And they don`t all clean up the mess very well.(tops) Do your homework and get it in writing. Thanks Marc

I appreciate all the information and tips! We have a lot to learn!
I am very please to say that the trees are not close to our border and it is not possible they would have any nails.
A logger in the area said a few of the trees were veneer quality.
It would be wonderful to make some money off the land!

Whatever they bring now, will bring more later. You want to sell in a building boom, not a bust.

Remember also, this is a once in a lifetime deal. Those trees have been there for generations. You cut them down, and those trees are gone forever. Your great grandkids might see another tree of that age/size if you have to let them grow from seedlings.

My father explained it to me thissaway... your timber and land are assets... if you sell them for ephemeral things, you'll have nothing after you spent the money.

My sisters sold most of their land. They asked me where they should invest it. I told them land. Of course, after they sold their precious land, they couldn't find any that was as cheap as what they sold their's for. They spent their inheritance, and now have nothing to show for it.

The only way you know it is veneer quality is if you sell the log and get that. Veneer means the logs are very even and may have interesting patterns. Little negative defects can discount it such as too thick a dark core, stems, bore holes, etc. We sell a lot of veneer logs from our land. The buyers, usually for Japan, come and pick the logs individually and tag them. Those are set aside for them and they pay top dollar.

Then the next grade goes to cabinetry, very high quality but not good enough for making veneer. Next is lumber, then pallet logs, then firewood, then pulp then biomass. Each grade has its own price and the price changes over time. Right now prices are low.

To know the difference between grades will take some study. Working with a forester is a good idea but you have to have enough volume to make it worth it. 10 trees is not much volume and a logger may not be interested. That is probably only a fraction of a truck load unless these are exceptional trees. We did have a few trees this summer that each tree was more than one truck load - very rare. Those were enormous white pine trees about 5' in diameter at the base and over 120' tall.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
Save 30% off Pastured Pork with free processing: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop

NO NO NO Never say something like that out loud or you wil jinx yourself!
Ask any loger and you will hear tals of stell in trees for no aparent reason. things like railroad spikes show up in STRANGE places!

Read what Texican had to say agin lots of wisdom there.

Then if you dont heed him:grit: read what Springvalley said about a dozen times!:nono:

A local mill ran all logs through a metal detector to get rid of logs with bullets and nails. It was just part of their normal operation.

Reply
 

Get them checked by somebody else first, and if you do cut them, don't use that logger. I've never met a logger who would say a tree was veneer quality until it was on the ground and he could see both ends, and the grain, unless he just wanted to trick you into letting him cut them and come up with an "ooops! I was wrong" and screw you on the price later.

Haypoint, we've had logs of ours taken as shaver logs which is the highest end of veneer and trucked to Bay City, Michigan, which is about 10 hours from here. Don't think that mill exists anymore but they paid well at the time. They weren't bothering with hauling a full load either.

Don't fall for the "if they're valuable now, they'll be more valuable later" BS. The biggest mistake in logging, particularly with hardwoods, is leaving them to grow too long and the quality will start going downhill a lot faster than it ever increased. I've seen too many people thinking they've got a big valuable tree and it breaks in half when it's cut because it's getting hollow and should have been cut 10 years ago.

NY or MA? if MA, then i have a contact with the state DCR that i'll pass along. he came out to my little plot of land and helped me estimate usable board feet, timber value, and he gave me a few references for local loggers that come with good recommendation.

Cherry is down right now as Just A Sawing said . If they are in Ny have seen much better prices there . True you really don't know how good it is till it is cut .

Had a man offer four grand for five white oaks standing . True too trees can degrade when they are left to long or blow down .

Thanks all , I really appreciate all the knowledge out there! The trees are in NY.
I feel for the logger because I know he is hurting and would like to drum up business but obviously we want to proceed with caution with as much info as we can. He knows we are ignorant on the subject.

We also need to be careful because in researching this I came across a few articles of people stealing trees! Good grief I am naive . While talking about this at a local diner we were told to be careful so that word wouldn't get out about our trees. ( We live in Ma. ) It never occured to me that someone would steal trees!

That's what makes it so good for timber thieves... no one is even thinking about protecting their trees.... quite a few trees on adjoining properties get taken during the logging process... whenever there's logging on my boundaries, I immediately contact the crew boss and chew the fat, basically getting around to letting him know all trees on the fence are mine... (only half would legally be mine)... and any trees on the fence will be grounds for me making sure they don't log any more in the area.... sometimes you have to bluff hard...

I worked in a plant that made cabinet parts. We saw bullets in the wood quite often. Lead shot too.

You right to a point. But a good healthy tree thats still growing will get bigger better and more valuable. The key is knowing when they stop growing. The state forester can give you advice on that. Because of the geometric progression of growth value it might be worth more to clear the growth around a already good tree than to log it so the others can grow. Just another thing to discuss with your forester.