Are Propane wall heaters safe for this?

Alice In TX/MO · #21 01/14/10, 04:05 PM

Canada and several states in the U.S. have outlawed ventless propane heaters. They are NOT safe.

Jolly · #22 01/14/10, 04:27 PM

They work. My dad used one for years.

A CO detecter is mandatory, though.

Hooligan · #23 01/14/10, 04:28 PM

Our propane supplier will install a ventless heater in any room but those used as sleeping quarters.

They will not install one in a bedroom and they will not fill your tank if they find out that you have one in a bedroom.

I personally wouldn't want one in my home.

arabian knight · #24 01/14/10, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Canada and several states in the U.S. have outlawed ventless propane heaters. They are NOT safe.

True and one can not and should not compare what has worked in years past because those houses back then are not as air tight as they are now. Trying to do so is like trying to compare apples to oranges and saying they are the same.

edmonds · #25 01/14/10, 05:16 PM

Ventless propane heaters (and fireplaces) must be sized for the room it is installed in. If the heater is too large for the cubic feet of the room, it will suck out the O2. Properly sized and installed, ventless are fine when used for secondary heating. They are not intended to be the primary heat source. Talk with a reputable installer.

arabian knight · #26 01/14/10, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edmonds

Ventless propane heaters (and fireplaces) must be sized for the room it is installed in. If the heater is too large for the cubic feet of the room, it will suck out the O2. Properly sized and installed, ventless are fine when used for secondary heating. They are not intended to be the primary heat source. Talk with a reputable installer.

And I will agree with you on that. Good post.

**Ross** · #27 01/14/10, 10:38 PM

Don't most LP NG fireplaces use a vent/intake?

fantasymaker · #28 01/15/10, 11:38 AM

There are at least two types of vent-less heaters one is a garage unit and the other is for inhabited indoors space, the latter costs more but its worth it. While your getting it pick up a oxygen alarm and a CO2 alarm . The unit has them built in but I'm a belt and suspenders guy when my life depends on it!

mdharris68 · #29 01/15/10, 07:08 PM

I was called to check one of these vent-less propane heaters out a few weeks back. It was brand new and it had just been installed. So I pull out a $$$$ CO detector and it picks up CO. All of the installation parameters were met. So I call the company and ask why we have CO coming out of this thing. The factory tech's answer was; This unit should not produce more than 8PPM CO concentration in a three hour period. He went on to tell me about CO produced by cigarette smoke and was comparing the two.

Anyway, 9PPM concentration is the standard "get out of the house until we figure out where this came from" limit.

If I were to use one, I would provide fresh air to the burner, so that the burner would not consume all of the oxygen in the space and trip the oxygen depletion sensor.

You'll have to decide what to do.

Harry Chickpea · #30 01/15/10, 08:09 PM

mdharris, something seems wrong there. I agree with the short term idea you have of getting fresh air to the burner, but IMO, something is seriously wrong if you are getting that strong a reading. Is it a "blue flame" or a ceramic brick type? Our local propane installers do not like the blue flame, because they feel it isn't as clean a burn.

Pink_Carnation · #31 01/16/10, 01:09 AM

I would be concerned with that high of a co reading also...given they couldn't get that high of a reading in the chimney of an oil furnace in our last house. CO acumulates in the body also so any to me is unaceptable. Once the CO binds with a blood cell it is there until the cell dies.

mdharris68 · #32 01/16/10, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Chickpea

mdharris, something seems wrong there. I agree with the short term idea you have of getting fresh air to the burner, but IMO, something is seriously wrong if you are getting that strong a reading. Is it a "blue flame" or a ceramic brick type? Our local propane installers do not like the blue flame, because they feel it isn't as clean a burn.

This one was a blue flame. I did not get that reading, that is what the company man said was acceptable. A lot of people assume the words vent-less in this context means safe, or no CO, when it comes to one of these heaters, but that's not the case.

ErinP · #33 01/16/10, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big rockpile

Yes.

But I was talking with a Propane Dealer the other day if these Heaters are run full time they put off alot of moisture.

big rockpile

We live in an old farmhouse and the ventless wall heater upstairs puts out enough moisture that the hundred year old window in DS's room has been absolutely soaked for the last few weeks due to all the moisture!
The windows that are better insulated seem to be fine, but that one is still original and it's pretty bad.

WRT to the vent/ventless argument, we have two. One is the blue flame, the other is the brick style (the one upstairs). I don't like either one. I can smell propane from both. This isn't our house, and as mentioned, we have to have the one upstairs. But, when we finally get our own house built, we will not be putting a ventless heater in.
No way.

Harry Chickpea · #34 01/16/10, 01:20 PM

mdharris, That could help explain a lot of the varying experiences. I would remove or replace that heater and stop using it immediately.

ozark mike · #35 01/16/10, 07:46 PM

Erin, the heater is not putting moisture in the air, in fact it is removing it... what you are finding on the windows is condensation or the cloud effect... it is the same as the glass of iced lemonade collecting moisture on the outside of the glass in summer... we have a small pan of water sitting on top of our wall unit to replace the moisture in the air...if you smell propane you either have a dirty unit or you are running near empty on the tank and the pressure is to low, that can also be caused by not having a large enough regulator or the line running to the house from the tank is not heavy enough...

**Ross** · #36 01/16/10, 08:01 PM

Since its ventless it can't remove anything and since its burning a hydrocarbon fuel it is exhausting water vapour h20 into the house and hopefully just carbomn dioxide co2 and not carbon monoxide CO.

ErinP · #37 01/16/10, 08:53 PM

And the propane smell is very light. DH never smells it.
But I've discovered that is a common complaint about ventless heaters-- that light smell of the propane tag.

Everything has been checked for leaks since I first noticed it when we first moved in this summer and only the pilots were on. No leaks, and the barrel has been refilled twice since July. It's just the smell of the units.

big rockpile · #38 01/16/10, 10:01 PM

I have two Ventless Heaters run them for years.Have never had a propane smell.

I do have a Propane Heater that I use out camping,suppose to be safe but I can't use it.

I am very sensitive to smells.

big rockpile

Gianni · #39 01/18/10, 05:55 PM

Unvented appliances are not approved for mobile homes. Different codes. For each 100,000 btu's you burn you release 1 gallon of water in the air from combustion with Nat gas, Lp is a little more. [CH4 +O mixes and makes H2O, LP @ C3H8 makes more). One of the risks with an unvented appliance in a mobile is insurance, if you install one you are cancelling your policy. All appliances will make CO, as stated 9 ppm is the standard for homes, over that and it's evacuate time. If you refuse to do so, the suppling authority, gas co, is required to disable the fuel system.

cfabe · #40 01/19/10, 01:51 PM

I'm one who does not believe these ventless heaters are safe. I've posted this before but these heaters are a single point failure away from generating enough CO to kill your family. Yeah, they have an oxygen sensor, but what if it fails? So you install a CO alarm, what if you forget to change the batteries? I know lots of people use them with no trouble, but it only costs a few hundred dollars more to get a vented heater and in my opinion it's worth it for the added safety. Not to mention the moisture problems the ventless heaters create.