Joel Salatin
 

Reviews about him. I would like your input on his practices etc.

He limits apprecentice to 8 people...6 men and 2 women. Why? Hmmm....


Anyone find negative things about this farmer? Just curious and throwing out a bone to find out more about him. While I see reviews and agree with alot of his practice etc.........what is the bad in this person? (if there is any?)

Any cons that anyone has found?

Do you mean Joel Salatin?

If there's one thing I have learned from him is that you must carefully analyze your local situation. Every state and many times counties and cities have different regulations so what you can do in one area isn't legally possible in other areas.

Niche markets are where it's at. You just have to find the niche first. Then you have to learn how to market to it. Salatin has done this in many differfent ways to include the books he sells and the speaking engagements he does.

.....Alan.

Are you referring to Joel Salatin ?

He might be somewhat taken aback if he found that he was being referred to as a Stalin.....

Joe Stalin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

He wasn't much of a farmer, from what I hear.

Surely you mean Joel Salatin from Polyface Farm.
http://www.polyfacefarms.com/default.aspx

I've read his books & on-line how-tos. Friday I'll be seeing a 2 hour how-to video he's put out. A local farmer's market group is showing it for a great price - free.

I've found his info to be very helpful.

Joel is a key farmer in the movie FRESH. I think if you watch the trailer you'll get a pretty good idea of who he is.

There isn't a person alive that someone can't find something negative about. Why are you specifically looking for negative things?

You're probably on the wrong site if you want to find "dirt" or "negatives" on Joel Salatin.

And Joseph STALIN was someone completely different, and not so hard to find some "negative" information on.

I've been to his farm for a brief visit. He is a very intelligent and creative guy, and there is much to learn from him. Some folks don't agree with the way he does things, but a lot do. I've talked to people who follow his practices to the letter, and are doing quite well with it. I've eaten in very nice restaurants that specify on their menus that they use products from his farm. Have you read his books? Before you sign up for the apprenticeship, I'd recommend doing so.

I'm going to assume you mean Joel Salatin.

I've heard him speak a few times, read his books and had the opportunity to chat with him.

I agree with much of what he says but I'll also point out that he appears to make a fair amount of revenue from promoting himself. Nothing wrong with that but each person needs to determine what works for themselves.

In his presentations/books he talks about just breaking the law and doing what you want. I have to wonder how much of that he actually does these days vs when he was starting out.

In the movie Fresh he is presented as some sort of local farmer which I think somewhat misrepresents his position/status. As long as a person can separate the facts from the agenda, this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Having said all this, if you have the opportunity to do an apprenticeship, can afford the cost and time, then it would probably be a good experience. Just don't drink the kool-ade.

I like Joel as a person and respect what he has done for himself.

As usual, just my 2 cents.

Mike

There are certainly negatives about Salatin. They are similar to the negatives about the Nearings. For example, both enterprises make heavy use of student labor that would not be available to others, and both derive their primary income from books and lectures. In that sense, the farming activities amount to a business expense. Also, Salatin's numbers pencil out better when you keep in mind that he started on family-owned land.

That said, there is a lot to be learned from both Salatin and the Nearings. Just bear in mind that they are selling a philosophy and an ideology, and treat the sales claims as you would any sales claim.

Joel and I know each other on a first name basis and I'm actually referred to in his book You Can Farm. Negatives? I simply can't think of any. Hard core Christian. Has raised two wonderful children. I have a NG article which said his farm grossed something like $125K a year and none of that was row cropping. Joel has been encouraged to run for the U.S. House of Representatives but has declined to do so. He is probably one of the most influencal farmers since Louis Bromfield. Joel really could sell ice to Alaskans or sand to Arabians. Lots of folks seem to be making good money following his advice and practices. I highly recommend all of his books.

LOL-LOL

yes I spelled it wrong.....not the dictator..HAHAHA


I did an edit on his name for the thread.....it sounded so out of whack!

:)


WELL I DID advanced edit, changed the thread title to Salatin and it wouldn't save and change...UGH---LOL-----oh well...

yes that is the kind of info I was asking for.....not negatives to get dirt on him......but the "truth" of how the farm is handled.

I hear big mouthing about do this and that and you prosper....but not ever as easy as one makes it sound. Like using student labor to further yourself ahead and having use of an existing farm and buildings, etc.


just curious about him.


and yes, everyone, I did spell his name wrong..LOL

Oh that hit me, sell ice to alaskans and sand to arabians. Yes you must have that personality to be a good promoter to further yourself ahead to his extent.

I guess "personality" sure weighs into that success.

I visited Polyface this summer and was greeted by Joel telling us what was going on at the time. I didn't want to take up too much of his time so we headed off for the self guided tour. Afterward, I purchased two of his books and the person asked if I wanted Joel to sign them. Sure, why not? Well, he came over and spent nearly an hour chatting with us about our farm and what we could apply to it. In person, he is really warm and fun to talk to.

I think the male/female ratio of his interns probably has to do with his traditional views on things. Our farm is almost entirely female and has worked for us and his farm is majority male and has worked for him. He also mentions something about not taking interns with dreadlocks in one of his books. I laughed out loud when I read that and wondered what he must have thought of me when we spoke as I have dreadlocks! :) To each their own!

His practices and principles can be adapted for all sorts of situations. We've been working on using his ideas on our farm this last year. So far so good. Just always be sure to understand WHY he does certain things so you aren't blindly following something that won't work for you because your circumstances are different.

I like his books. I like his methods. It all doesn't transcribe over to saving money for me though. It is fun to learn and enlightening to see someone put forth effort as he has done. Bu I also think he earns more money now in lectures and books than he does with farming. I don't think that should take away from studying his efforts.

I like his enthusiasm to teach and share. If he makes money doing so, bravo for him. One thing that struck me in the update on his book about pastured poultry is his referral to (name escapes me at this moment) another person's method which was a bit different from his. He admitted that he had not thought of it and it seemed to work well and to keep on thinking and adapting. He shares the info about the land being family owned. Seems to be pretty open about all of it. As to male/female ratio, who knows? I guess as I think about it most farmers I know are guys. I happen to be the "farmer" in my family but dh met me when I was known to wear cow pooh!
Land stewardship seems to be very important to him. That is something he conveys and shows is still a possibility.

So where are the negatives?

Tom

There are some Mr. Salatin's ideas and practices I like, there are some I don't care for, but what I admire most about the man that most people do not hit on is his constant drive of innovation on his farm. He doesn't let "well enough" alone, even some of his own ideas he had in the past on running a profitable farm he will throw out and try again. His farm is constantly evolving, and he is the ultimate industrial engineer on the farm in that he constantly tries to do things that will save labor and drop more dollars to the bottom line.

As much as I have learned from Mr. Salatin's books, there are so many other innovators in Agriculture today, including Dr. Jim Gerrish, Gordon Hazard, a cattleman from Mississippi, and Greg Judy, a cattle producer in Missouri. Do not agree on everything they say, but like Mr. Salatin, they are always trying to find a better way to do things.

He has many great ideas. I'm reading a few of his books right now. I was (mistakenly) under the impression that his chicken operation was sustainable. In reading the pastured poultry book I see he buys all his day-old chicks. On our future small farm we are hoping to breed and grow our own cornish cross birds. A few more weeks on pasture rather than the health problems that the commercial varieties have is ok with us. We tried broad breasted turkeys one year, and were disgusted with how they've been genetically altered to grow so big and will not live much longer than the fall season due to health problems. I've not tried the commercial broilers and won't. Of course, we are not hoping to make our whole living off them either, just to sell excess locally.

I know I don't have the fortitude that Joel does in challenging "the system". I admire him a lot! I do disagree with his position on horse slaughter. He thinks it should be allowed. I don't have a problem with people eating horse meat, I have a big problem with how the animals are handled (miss-handled), transported and slaughtered. As long as there are folks in this country who tire of, or can no longer afford to keep their horses, there will be a need for slaughter or other way of disposing of them. Well, I guess I object to all slaughter houses. Joel gives many reasons why they are bad, including the law I read about last night, requiring carcasses to be chilled within a certain time limit after slaughter, and the fact that this prohibits a natural enzyme in the meat from working properly causing the leaner, grass fed carcasses to be tough. Home slaughter/processing will always be best, for the animals and for the consumers, if you can get away with it! I'm learning a lot from his books!

I cant learn rap from books
 

I gotta see it either first hand, or by DVD ect. Ive been trying to read the articles put in SFJ by the Nordells. I even bought a VCR of theres, but it was dark and of poor quality and I didnt get anything from it either,

The point is that not all of those things are easily replicable, if at all.

But that fact tends to be de-emphasized in the books.

In other words, just because Joel can do it, doesn't mean you necessarily can.

Critical thinking rather than blind followership is key.

You're right, not all of the things he does is easily replicated, but then no one should expect farming to be easy, anyway. Critical thinking is the key, and I think that is what people should learn from Joel. Adapt to the situation you have, rather than trying to replicate what someone else is doing.

If Joel were were in my shoes, I suspect he would adapt his methods to fit my situation. If I want to be as successful as he, I would have to follow his lead and develop my own plan and my own methods, rather than trying to imitate his. Joel would tell you the same thing.

I think Jim is right on in his assessment of Joel.

I've read most of his books and I got the feeling that he didn't so much want the reader to replicate exactly what he was doing but use them as a jumping off point to do your own thing. He has some great ideas by the way. The first book I read was Family Friendly Farming, really good read.

Might be a little off topic, but.....if you are interested in rotational grazing, there is a sticky thread in the cattle forum that might be an interest to you.

From what I've gathered over the years, he makes his money off of telling others how to do things... more money than on the the farming aspect.

He is right though about one thing... you have to have well healed suckers, uh, er clients, willing to pay a hyper premium for common foods with fancy labels.

His business practice (marketing himself and his way) always reminded me of the old make money at home scam that's been around forever. Money will just pour into your mail box with out guaranteed program. Send x dollars today! What you receive is a letter telling you to send out the letter in the mail, or advertise in a small paper, offering the same scam to others. One of my gullible cousins paid for this scam, and actually got his money back, by scamming others...

The market Joel talks about is very very limited. The market for baby corn at high prices is very limited. One micro farmer might make a go of it. However, if 100 try and flood the same market, well phooey.

I don't begrudge him anything... anyone that can make money farming is a hero in my book.

imho... if you don't live near a metro area, or a region with upscale people, his methods won't work... I know no one that'll pay 3x premium on groceries...

Not sure that's the point. I read Salad Bar Beef and he sold bulk (at that time) at a reasonable price, hardly a premium. The emphasis is on replicating nature, i.e. feeding animals a natural diet etc. However, you are right about the market he sells to; there are tons of yuppies in D.C. and northern VA and restaurants that cater to them.

I thought about being an intern there myself, but some of my beliefs don't really mesh with his and I prefer crop production, anyway. 8 interns is really high. That's way up from the original 2. The smaller number of women may have to do with having separate housing or fewer applicants and possibly personal beliefs.

Unless I'm mistaken Joel turned the farming operations over to his son in his late teens/early 20s. Pretty well totally. I've heard him say when his children worked on the farm he paid them a most decent wage. Taught them the value of working hard early on. It wasn't just room and board and pocket money. Heard his son address a conference of several hundred people when he was maybe 14. Not your typical youngster at all.

Yes, he got the family farm but last I knew his mother lived with them. So the farm was basically her retirement fund.

Poly means many. Cattle, hogs, poultry and fish. He did some subcontracting with local farms as well, such as free-range turkeys.

He speaks and write such you get the feeling he is talking directly to you. And he is candid that if something works for him it might now work for someone else. Chicken pick up days at his farm, which isn't that easy to get to, were like family events.

And Joel was somewhat cut-throat on his customer base. If you scheduled a chicken pick up and didn't show, you likely got dropped off his mailing list.

Use to send a Christmas card with a farm update to his clients. What they (with emphasis on family) had done in the past year and what they anticipated doing the next. Made his family like part of their family. Heck, Joel has been huged by maybe 10,000 people.

I am sparce with my admiration of people, including family, but I do admire Joel and what he has tried to accomplish. Hero worship? Maybe.

Out of curiosity, have you actually read any of his books? I sure didn't get any of that out of the books I've read.

Hey! I didn't know Dr. Jim Gerrish was famous! I even have an autographed copy of his book "Management-intensive Grazing, The Grassroots of Grass Farming" which his college professor brother gave me. Whoohoo!

Well, he is famous to me. His farm in Linneus, MO that he had while with Mizzou was down the road from my aunt and uncle and I now live in the county he grew up in here in Southern Illinois. This is corn and bean country, so while they know "Jimmy Gerrish from Fairman", they don't really know "Dr. Jim Gerrish, the father of MIG".

His methods work if you can sell your produce for 10X the wholesale price. If not. It's happy talk.

Not that I mind happy talk. ;)

A lot of people care about the food they eat and are willing to pay the true cost of food.
This is where those critical thinking skills come in. Everyone should be doing their own homework. He's not telling anyone that what he's doing is going to work for everyone. He's a model of what works for him. An intelligent business owner does not join a flooded market, s/he provides what's needed. That's common sense.

I'm 100 miles from a very small city of 33,000, in a town of 55 in the poorest county in the state. I have no problem selling everything I produce. Not knowing someone who doesn't buy regular groceries doesn't mean they don't exist.

I read his books also. According to him, one of the requirement for help is that his people must keep up with him and walk as fast as he does.

In other words, not only has he figured out a more EFFICIENT way to raise food, but he works hard as well. AND, he was worked out a method of marketing that gives him more than supermarket prices.

I think if you can do half of what he does, you will make a profit. Personally, I think that doing half of what this guy does is a huge job!

I read and re-read everything by Louis Bromfield every year, but my only contact with J. Salatin is from a recent article in MEN, and I was rather put off by his radical talk about Everything I want To Do is Illegal. I think his bashing of the "system" was overboard and maybe intended to be so--after all, outrage and outlandishness seem to sell best in today's market.

Also, I had a neighbor who let his hogs run loose on his farm, too, mainly in the woods--which ruined the woods. And my Dad's fields, too, since this neighbor wouldn't fence the woods to contain his free range animals. I usually look askance at those who would preach loudly that their way is best for all.

But, I'm basing that opinion on one article....... If our library would carry some of his books on the shelf, I would probably pick them up and take a look.

This is a rather odd way to ask about someone. It would seem that rather than an objective opinion you seek slanted negativity.

You may have gotten more accurate opinions by simply asking if anyone knew anything about Joel Salatin. But I sense that accuracy is not what you seek.

Geo,

Please have your library do an interlibrary loan and read a few of his books. The article you read is definitely creating the wrong impression.

I haven't read the book everything I want to do is illegal but I know from the other books that he feels that the regulations required for small scale slaughterhouses are excessive and cost prohibitive. If you're a deer hunter and you hire someone to process your deer you probably have some confidence in slaughterhouses that aren't USDA inspected and certified.

As far as hogs roaming the woods, Salatin fences confines them to specific areas to actively clear and fertilize land he intends to bring into other production. He is very consious of caring for his woods.

Again, read a few of his books "You Can Farm" is a good one before you make up your mind on him.

Nothing I've read or heard from him expects his clients or his readers clients to pay 10x the wholesale price for his goods.

There are good and bad points to Salatin.
He did come up with some great and creative ideas that can be translated to work on a much smaller basis.
He has brought awareness to the availability of locally grown meats and the benefits thereof.
He is a marketing genius.
But, it is still factory farming, just a kinder, gentler factory.