Joel Stalin

Are you saying that selling a few farming books for $20 apiece is equivalent to a pyramid marketing scheme? If the $20 price is too much you can check out a book on interlibrary loan. I've read 3 of Joel's books and I feel confident I've gotten the purchase price worth of information from them.

If you meet Joel in person you will definitely and immediately realize that he has a salesman's personality but what he's selling (farming) is something he believes in and feels strongly about.

I think many farmers or would-be farmers are better at the "producer" aspect of their craft and someone who is sales-like may rub them the wrong way but there are lessons to be learned from that. A farmer who is a "price maker" and can convince people that there is something superior about his product will probably make more money than a farmer who is a "price taker" and produces all he can and takes whatever price he can get at the wholesale market.

I agree (and does Salatin) that you can make more money farming if you're within striking distance of larger urban areas to sell your farm products. I disagree with your assessment that people who pay more for their food are "suckers"

You don't need to read anything but the price label. $20 a pound for boneless chicken breast. $3.25 a pound for whole broilers.

Now, what do you suppose the wholesale price of those items would be?

I guess you're telling me the prices you listed are the prices Salatin charges? I'm not aware of that from reading his books or hearing him speak. If so I'll revise my statement to say nothing in his books indicates that his readers need to charge 10x the wholesale rate to be successful. I have read in his books that you should be looking for customers who are not expecting you to produce food cheaper than mega producers/wholesalers and that you should charge a premium by selling the uniqueness of your operation and product. If he can actually charge people 10x wholesale cost more power to him but I don't think you need to do that to benefit from his books.

No but it sure helps in the profit/loss part of the equation.

Here is a link to his produce page...
http://www.polyfaceyum.com//index.ph...index&cPath=65

One of his main points is that if you produce a superior product then people will pay superior prices.

If he does not consider a product to be superior-a runty calf, for example- then he does not offer it to his usual customers.

Just so everyone understands, I am perfectly willing to pay more for high-quality, locally grown food. Which I suppose makes me one of Texican's suckers. I pay way more than the supermarket price for milk, for example.

But I do think that the prices Salatin is able to get, thanks in part to his location, and in part to his celebrity, cannot be replicated by many people. And so I think that it is fair to say that his methods are not the cure-all that many make them out to be.

And yes, I realize that while Salatin's books may de-emphasize the challenges others without his advantages may face in replicating his financial results, his books do not actually claim that everyone will achieve his results, or that his methods will work for everyone

But many of his more devoted followers are convinced that all farmers could make money if they just followed his script. Basically, they misinterpret his book and are more extreme and literal than he himself is.

Hmmmm, what does that remind me of?

3 years ago Bill was selling eggs for $3/dozen, freerange chicken for $3/lb and pastured pork for $3/lb hanging weight. His farm is 30 miles SW of Cleveland and about 15 miles W of Akron; it's not in the "city". But he had a very profitable business. Coming here from the DC area, his prices stunned me; I would never spend that much on food. As he's fond of reminding me, not everyone was his customer but enough were.

so $6/LB Filet Mignon on sale (normal ~ $10/lb) in the supermarket and $25/lb at Polyface farm. Or $2/lb versus $14/lb for chicken tenders. I am not saying these are 100% comparable products of the same quality, but which is coming closer to the real cost of getting that cut of meat on the customer's dinner table? Are industrial scale operations externalizing huge portions of the cost or are small meat producers gauging customers? Both?

There is dairy nearby that sells raw milk cheese for $25/lb and I they've gotten a lot of my money because there product is simply amazing. But they recently starting selling veal at $20+ /lb and that was a bit of shock for me.

Either way this is all hardening my resolve to start producing my own meat and if that doesn't work out then serious consideration will be given to becoming a vegetarian.

I was inspired by 'Joel Salatin's book 'You Can Farm' to stop making excuses about not having the right land, equipment, whatever and just get on and START. He is one of those people, like John Seymour in the Seventies, who inspire many , many people as well as do the day job!

I get great prices but if I asked anyone to pay $13/lb for chicken breast I'd be laughed at. I agree that being a celebrity probably plays a part in his prices.

Prices are listed on his website. Boneless, skinless breast is $13/lb. He says there are two breasts in a one pound package but I don't think that's correct. I raise these broilers. At eight weeks the breast is large. A chicken has one breast that is divided into two halves. I think he's counting each half as a breast.

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Robin

select customers can handle $15 per lb free range etc chickens

Nations upon nations can not afford expensive food....thereby the "mass food producers" must make chickens available at $1.50 per lb or .69 per lb on SALE to families. Along with other cheap foods. There must be cheap foods for the world to survive as it is right now.


it is an overpriced market for "organic" "free range" etc. cause of cost of doing business and the "hit the customer where it hurts about better nutrition, media of humane vs. inhumane etc. etc.


is it overpriced if some are willing to pay? nope
is it greed in profit margin? yup

Joel only recently started taking women students becuse of houseing issues. There was only one house available and it was being used by men.
I read every one of his books FROM THE LIBRARY. Didn't pay a penny to read them. I went to a lecture he did at a local college...free admission.
I have learned more from Joel than any other farmer to date. I also have made some business decisions based on some of his theory that have made me more money and saved me many headaches. His farming model is sound. You have to adjust it to work for you in your own situation.
As far as what he charges for chicken breast...read his books. It covers why they are so much higher in price. You still have a whole chicken to deal with. If someone wants the convience of only buying chicken breasts, then they need to pay for it. Because it is the "choice" cut, you have to compensate for the "loss" on the rest of the bird. Same with the filet mignon. It is just smart business. If you want cheap chicken breast, buy the whole bird.
Last, I would ask that people not judge someone based on a few lines in a magazine. Do your own homework. Read what they have themselves put out and then decie for your self.

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Trisha in WA
Visit my blog @
Diamond Belle Ranch

What else does a man have to do in his short time here on earth than build soil and feed people~Forerunner

Llamas for sale.

Joel did not just wake up one day and decide to write some farming books. He LIVED this lifestyle and earned money by doing it for years before he wrote one page. At this point he earns money from books and lectures, but for many years the farming was it.

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I have read most of Joels books and one thing he is adamantly opposed to is factory farming! I'd like to know where you get that from reading his books.

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"Knowledge didn't hatch out on a flat rock." Clayton Peary

If you read some of the livestock forums, especially cattle, you will realize many of those folks are using methods very similar to Salatins. They have tweaked some parts to fit their situation. Some of them realize that there may be an alternative to spending huge money on seed, fertilizer, the newest "stack" seed corn plus ridiculous machinery costs to till, plant, harvest and deliver a crop that ends up in a west Texas cattle feedlot. Instead they maintain and rotate good grass pastures and maybe fatten cattle at home. They probably aren't going to show you their books but I think there are some folks making good money.

I've read many articles about folks using his pastured poultry concept and apparently doing well. Yes, they get a premium price but are selling a concept. For example a vegetarian might eat their chickens or eggs but not store bought.

I have one free-range rooster and hen. They sleep on my deck railing and she has a box in the shop. Gives me an egg or so a day. I use about half and give away the others for goodwill, such as to the postal carrier.

I've heard Joel say he is often asked how he gets so much done in a day. He said - simple. Just do it.

It is funny to read someone complain that other people are willing to pay higher prices for a premium product. It is a (semi-) free market. Yes, some people (like me) buy beat-up used cars. Other people buy brand new BMWs. Don't expect a BMW to cost the same as a low end car. I don't expect my 14 year old FORD to perform like a sports car. It is free choice - people can choose to buy what they want.

Anyone is welcome to sell their farm products for bottom dollar. Go for it. Want to get the lowest price? Sell at auction. Me? I'll ask a premium for my premium product. My customers are happy to pay it because they know they're getting something better and they're supporting their values (buy locally, humanely raised, pastured, etc).

Like many small farmers I sell to the high end of the market. There is no reason for me to compete with the likes of Tyson and Smithfield for the low end pennies. Those companies lose money even though they are heavily supported by our government through the petroleum, feed (corn/soy/grain) and other subsidies. Read the industry magazines about how they're moaning that they lose $5 a pig etc. That is their choice. They even publish cartoons like the classic "We're losing $5/pig but we'll make it up in volume." On the other hand, there is a whole new thinking called http://nichepork.org/ which is a big change for Big Ag and in many ways a move in the right direction.

Frankly, meat, and other foods, should cost more rather than being subsidized by tax payers. If we paid at the check the true costs people would make better choices. Unlikely to happen.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
Save 30% off Pastured Pork with free processing:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

I looked over this page. The boneless, skinless, fatless chicken breasts are $13/lb. That's a high end product. All the low end stuff like bone, skin and fat is removed. That saves the consumer money. That costs extra labor processing. It creates extra 'waste' since those things aren't sold right there. Hopefully they're used in something but it will likely be at a lower price.

No surprise there.

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

I disagree. the question was likely asked that way because it is easy to find good stuff about people as popular and vogue as salatin. I personally tend to take things with an extra grain of salt also when presented with a shining star that no one seems to question. it begs the question "what is the real scoop" when the picture perfect presentation is viewed. I'm sure he is a great guy and great salesman and has great intentions and I know he has some awesome ideas. and as long as people keep in mind that they are just ideas and ideals to ponder and use when appropriate and not some blueprint for perfection and certainly not something to be taken without the same kind of skepticism as anything else then its fine. when things are swallowed whole without question by an adoring crowd then it can get a little annoying and even scary.

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