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Profitable livestock and produce choices
My husband and I were just talking about this last night. We just recently sold our Nubian does (in milk) in preparation for our move. I said "I could have sold them 25 times over, and for more $$". He laughed and said "of course you could have... do you realize how much $$ and labor you have put into a doe by the time she is in milk?!!" I didn't... so I did some figuring and our does *did* pay for themselves, so to speak, because we originally began raising them to feed our infant daughter and dollar cost wasn't our main consideration. But wow!!! was I surprised at the figures and time estimates!!!
Anyhow... we had a great conversation last night about this and would love to hear your thoughts and experiences with what you have found to be your best choices on the farm in produce and in livestock. And like in our situation, $$ isn't necessarily the determining factor in your best choices... although I'm sure in the most practical it will be. Thanks and stay warm~ Carmen :) |
hard to beat a pig, they are cheap when young, grow fast enough to butcher before their first winter and eat almost anything.
in our garden we're focused on watermelons and pumpkins as cash crops, plus growing our own veggies, plus squash, beets for critter feed. |
Chickens. The big ones take longer to start laying, but they do well in the winter. If we get a straight run all the roosters but one go off to freezer camp and we end up with organic free range chicken for ourselves. The eggs are superior. Because we free range the food bill is quite low in the summer, basicly just the leftover grain from the winter. If you consider the cost of buying free range organic eggs I suppose we break even financially. But, we have the added bonus of pest control all summer. We also have ducks, but they are harder to contain and we loose them to predators. We are going to try a different system this summer, but if you have a pond, that is where your ducks are.
We have sheep, but I don't have a steady market for the wool. If you have a market for selling the wool, you use the wool yourself, and you don't get broke up about culling, sheep are very doable. They need shade during the summer, a windbreak during the winter, but don't need a barn (well the nonwool breeds might). For meat, you can buy weaned lambs in the spring and have them butchered in the fall, keeping them on pasture all summer and never having to buy hay over the winter. |
As you put your pencil to paper you will find that to be profitable you must either cater to a niche market or be into volume. Volume brings you to corporate food and so the circle goes.
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We will have just under $300 into a steer by June this year He is about 600 lbs now and hopefully closer to 1000 by June. Estimating hopefully low - 600 lbs of meat works out at about 50 Cents a pound. I'd say that was profitable.
Don't ask me about my $12 each meat chickens though..... |
If everything goes perfectly then the hens pay for themselves. Assuming, of course, that none of the pullets grow into poor layers, that the varmints do not get any hens, and so forth. As long as things go perfectly we break even.
They are a lot of fun, though. The garden and the fruit is where I make my theoretical profit. I had to wait many years for fruit, but it is mine for the picking and a little fertilizer and some water during any drought. Insects are horrid but I get many desserts anyways. The garden USED to cost as much as the value of the veggies, but I have become more clever at buying and storing seeds. Last year I laid down weed barrier which cost a fair amount, but it is good for years and I will break even soon. We get a lot of veggies from the garden: some summers I buy almost no produce. So, if I buy $60 worth of produce per month without the garden, and $10 with a garden, then I am saving myself $50 times 5 months or $250 per year, minus fertilizer of $20 and seeds of $20 and water of perhaps $10. So the garden is profitable. |
My hens have never paid for themselves. It costs too much to get them up to laying age and then they don't lay continuously. I can buy the same eggs I get from my hens for $1 or less per dozen locally.
I can buy a steer ready to slaughter cheaper then I can buy a 5-600lb one and raise him up to slaughter weight, I do it to keep my pasture picked off but hay and feed add up. I can buy vegetables just like I raise locally for probably less then I can raise them for especially if you consider supplies, gas and equipment not counting labor. Pigs are cheap to raise especially if you get free food for them and slaughter yourself. If not then you can buy a full grown hog for about the same as what you'd have in it by the time you buy feed. |
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The most profitable thing you can have is a pencil sharpener. Over the last 55 years on a farm, the only sure way to show a profit was set down and figure out the the project with a pencil. If you reach your bottom line with elbow grease and sweat, the outcome can be quite different. <>Unk
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I only buy hybrid laying hens.
They are bred for better feed conversion and maximum egg production. Plus, they lay earlier and lay better in cold weather. The chicks are priced very reasonably. |
look at holsteins, you can pick up a calf for 25 bucks.
Even beefer calves aren't going for a quite buck around here 40- 90/head. small feeders .70-.98 We have always been happy with the return on holstein steers. Whether we eat them or sell them as halves. Chicken is second but moving eggs around here is a problem, too many other hobbyists out there. If we spend the dough to keep the coop lit we can sell a few more through the winter. Raspberries turned out to be a money maker this year. Will be paying a little more attention to the berry patch. |
We raise holstein bull (steer) calves and sell them at a profit. The key is feed cost control and death loss.
We will pre-sell beef halfs to retail customers in the Minneapolis/St. Paul market based on some cheap marketing and word of mouth. We have been approched by a farmers market to sell packages of beef, but we are still looking at all the laws and exposure before we make that move. Our garden meets our own needs and really not enough left over to sell. |
my goats pay for themselves, and a bit more. some of what i am planning--chickens for meat and eggs, and a bigger/better garden--will profit me well with food that i do not have to travel to get, or settle for so-so quality.
money wise, i'm not sure, and almost scared to pencil it out!. but i am a sahm, and have older kids, so they can help work. the more i can stay home and do for ourselves, the better off we are. selling the kids from my milkers didn't pay well at all, and do not plan to keep any to raise this year. the mistake i made was keeping them waaay too long, i make profit if i sell them weaned or earlier, but i sold some just a month ago, and i made nothing just taking into acct. the labor i put into them, dont' even mention the feed! duh. lesson learned. i gave one away to a pet home, and they let her get into something and die. another lesson learned. i did make a profit on a few that i sold as weanlings, tho. mostly i feel i 'gain' by quality of life. i love the feeling of filling our pantry and plates with my own works. i love knowing that the quality is top, its not sprayed, dyed, shipped, gassed, hormoned, etc. just that is enough to feel confident of a 'gain'. |
Rabbits = no profit, I couldn't find a market close to me so I was shipping them 5 hrs away, not too bad as I would visit my friend while there for a few days.
The chickens pay for their own food from the eggs. even now and then some extra in the pot. I have made a profit on my goats, I started with 6, sold a doe and 2 bucks making back what all 6 cost me plus a bit. They also paid for their grain and hay from the savings in milk I didn't have to buy (we drink alot of milk, 16 qts a week being easy on the milk) Plus I have 3 does due this spring. Our pig was expensive as there is no free food available around here, too many raising pigs. But the quality of meat was well worth the cost. |
An awful lot of the "profit or failure" will depend on what you have available locally. If you can free range poultry, and buy grain for basically farmer price....you can make a profit. hay out of the field for the winter. yup. still looking at at LEAST breaking even...but..ifyou sell eggs, and look for profit, you need a good place to sell them.
Some areas of the country/world have to pay for grain/feed that's shipped in..that cuts into your profit..a LOT. How long a growing season do you have? tht also will determine the profitability. so many variables :) keeps it interesting. |
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I think it all depends on where you live and what the local market is. Here you can get a steer and raise it up cheap. I have friends in the deep Midwest (KS, NE, OK, CO) who depsite living in "beef" country, would pay more for a steer to begin with then we would sell them for at the end!
As to the other animals, it depends on how you raise them...... but from what I've read everywhere... pigs/hogs are the best value especially if you slaughter them yoursef. |
you know - I have to say that at the moment I dont' think any of my animals are paying for themselves. The rabbits are doing very well, and putting meat in the freezer (and I also have pelts in the freezer to cure) but if you take into account the cost of the hutches then we have a long way to go before we break even. The hens pay well when they are in lay, but I haven't done well with raising new birds and mine are mostly pensioners so it is quite a long spell where they aren't laying a lot. The ducks and geese are definite "hangers-on" and I am REALLY looking forward to putting a lot of the ducks in the freezer. The goats - well - If you count up the meat I have on the hoof, and the milk I got this year, and don't count the cost of buying the original stock and getting them here, then they are probably paying their way just about. But I didn't figure out marketing my milk las tyear, so really I am in loss on those as well.
The veg garden definitely pays its way - veg is very expensive where I am, and even if I just grow potatoes, onions, parsnips, and summer stuff like corn then I am ahead. If I grow beans and green veg as well then I am laughing. That is just on what I grow for myself - this year I may grow starter plants for sale - I have to think on that soon or I will be too late. Uncle Will - I love your saying about the pencil sharpener. That hit the nail RIGHT on the head for me as I am the world's worst at guestimating what is happening financially. I "know" it will all come right in the end, but someone said to me last year that I need to treat it as a business and do the books as though I had directors to prove it to. Even if my "profit" is only free food for my household, I need to have it worked out. hoggie |
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When growing food for your self, stay away from the money losing, poor quality, lack of nutrient value, chemically soaked, industrialized, so called food.
Grow it in a sustainable, natural way. Process it as whole foods. Learn what to eat and why. When people say good food is expensive, ask them >how expensive is cancer?< or any other of the health issues brought on by our modern food supplies. Tom |
Anything can be profitable if you control costs, have customers and from day 1 of purchase you track all expenses and your time.
If you are "doing this for you" then it is the fresh food benefits, raising your own, knowing what they are fed, knowing their treatment, etc. Cost shouldn't matter as much if that is what your objective is for your family. For business like me, you have to track and like Uncle Will said, get a few pencils and a sharpener..lol. You must buy feed by the ton, vet mostly yourself, cull the herd severly and grow our own hay etc. to truly hold costs down to make profit. You must know the animal you are farming inside and out and you must select hardly breeds vs. fluff that means more work for your location, etc. |
Worms have been my most profitable livestock out of chickens, rabbits, fish and goats because a herd of a few thousand can be pastured in a casket sized bin and after a few years they eliminated my need of fertilizer and tilling equipment for my gardens in addition to producing 10 to 20 cups of bait per bin at $2 a cup every few weeks.
Add to that the fact I have bartered worms to a chicken raiser in exchange for fryers and eggs and use my worms for bait to catch fish in a nearby pond instead of aquafarming them in tanks, to an extent the worms have kept me stocked with 2/3 of my past livestock ventures without the high maintenance. Best part is the worm herd doesn't care if I dont feed it for a week or two if I go on a trip as long as the moisture levels are maintained between 60 to 70 percent with a demand wick watering tank I built. |
[QUOTE=Beeman;
Pigs are cheap to raise especially if you get free food for them and slaughter yourself. If not then you can buy a full grown hog for about the same as what you'd have in it by the time you buy feed.[/QUOTE] This seems to be the case nowadays, brother raised two this year, just got back from butcher yesterday. All said and done come to $3.33 per pound of actual meat: Ham steaks, roasts, bacon, chops ,canadian bacon, sausage etc. You could buy the same lot at the butchers store for the same price. You do get to know what went in them raising them yourself, but call the time you invest in caring for and feeding them free. |
Often times the difference from a profit and a financial sink hole is marketing, salesmanship. Most of us can't compete in the open comercial markets.
Ifd we have to buy our beef calves, we'll never be able to sell them for what it costs. I'm talking about figuring in al your costs, fencing, hay, grain,buckets, transportation, etc. The same goes for pigs. In fact you can buy market ready pigs for far less than you'd have spent in feed. If you raised your breeding stock, you have the added expense of buying and feeding a boar or training and equipment ti AI. Eggs can net some profit, but how many can you sell with a sign out by the road? Free range chickens are of interest to many. But you can't go too high with your price and butchering a few chickens every time someone wants some. Health Dept. issues must be resolved. At one time, local farmers could turn a nice profit with pumpkins and sweet corn. But with so many others doing the same and commercial farms covering the market, that isn't profitable anymore. But that is often the case with farming. When corn prices jump, everyone wants to cash in. So the next season the number of acres planted to corn. The result is a price drop and everyone struggles to cover their costs. On the other end of Agriculture, remember Emus? Big money to be made selling Emu meat or eggs. Some folks got in and got out and made money. Many others got stuck with breeding stock they'd paid thousands for and couldn't give them away. Their investment in special incubators was lost. Thirty years ago, I bought draft horses. Colts were bringing thousands. A quality mare was a sure fire money maker. Now, a colt sells for less than the stud fee. Same for some of the exotic breeds of cattle. I've seen Scottish Highlanders sell, at auction, for less than Angus. I know they paid a lot for them a few years ago when that market was hot. I once had a three acre garden. I had a wide variety of vegetables. When it came time to harvest, none of the local stores would buy frrom me, the roadsidee markets had no interest. I fed hundreds of watermellons to my chickens and fed bushels of cabbage to the pigs. The key is marketing. Find a product you like to raise AND some reason special to you or your farm that allows you to raise it better and cheaper than anyone else. As an example, I live where corn cannot be grown well. But, pastures grow well and hay is of better quality due to the climate. I like cattle. That is only a start. The "ace in the hole" for me is the fact that there are hundreds of acres of pastures available to me for little or no cost. Marketing is still the key. If you sell a milk goat and then get ten calls asking about it, do not fool yourself into believing that you had ten real buyers. You can get top dollar for your eggs, if you want to devote some hours to the Farmers Markets. If you can knit while you sit there, then the time isn't such a waste. Generally, if you see someone producing something for a profit, by the time you get geared up to compete, either your competion grows to fill the market or others do as you've done and the market is saturated. Start a weaving club and then market your fleece to your contacts there. I see Spelt flour selling for $2.00 a pound. I have land ready to plant 40 acres of spelt. Can I make a profit? Doubtful. Getting the grain from the field and to the folks that will buy spelt flour is a huge step few can make. I can produce lots of products and beat the competition on price. But I often fail getting buyers to get off their billfolds. Marketing isn't a skill that everyone has. |
There's a few people on here that have a smaller operation and do very well with it. Highlander comes to mind with his pigs. He obviously worked very hard at creating and cultivating his market. When he posts how much he gets for his pork many comment or doubt him. He is the exception more then the rule but he proves what can be done.
There was someone marketing chickens, I can't remember who it was, they also had impressive returns. |
I dare say, take heart, homesteaders and growers; the days of cheap and easy food are coming to an end.
Soon the limitation of price will give in to the tremendous opportunity of limited availability. Don't sell out now...... |
Feeder calves have been most profitable for us, chiefly because labor is low and they eat the grass that is out in the pasture. There are fencing costs, overseeding, water hauling in the summer, etc., but we make enough off the cattle to fund the rest of our farm. Laying hens only became profitable when we found a restaurant saving us scraps everyday and then, like overnight, the hens were moneymakers!!!!! Finished beef makes a little bit of money for us, the main benefit being we essentially have a free side of beef every year for our toils.
We do have a raised garden, apple trees, strawberries and blueberries, but they are more labor intensive in season. The main thing is, and I'm sure many of you will back me up on this one, that our most profitable livestock and produce choices are the ones we derive the most enjoyment from!!!! In my case, nothing beats sitting on the tailgate back on our land watching the cattle after I move them to a new pasture. Certainly not for everyone, but that is when I know I have made a good decision!!!!! |
Thank you all for these responses!!! This is an interesting read. So many variables!! We have never raised anything for financial profit, just to feed our little family... and we probably never will. We are interested in just trying to keep our food sources *close*!!
We are trying to purchase everything possible, from food to household products to services, from local small non regulated *business* and this should be easier with regard to food once we get moved... this thread just proves the need for us to continue doing that. It isn't *ever* cheaper $$ so to speak, but we are trying to learn to consume less, on all levels, just so we are able to spend the $$ in the best possible place. And we are thinking the end result will be healthier bodies, less cluttered spaces and more of our extended family thinking we are kooks. Working so far!! ;) Carmen :) |
Our chickens were profitable last year, as I donated 3 dozen eggs a week to the senior citizen center for bingo prizes and got a tax write-off from it. In addition, the satisfaction gleaned from the look of excitement from the seniors that won those eggs made it very worthwhile. Our pig cost $30 and will hopefully be profitable in raising pigs as the seniors clean out their fridges and bring me the scraps, so the pig's food has been mainly free for the year. DH has decided not to butcher her, but to breed her because there is no one in our county raising pigs anymore. There is a poster on here that we have been trying to help find pigs for about 4 months and there are none, so DH says we will raise our own and hopefully about 6-7 weaned pigs to sell to pay for the cost of breeding and feeding the mama over the year as we will surely have to buy a little corn to feed her. We about broke even on the garden last year. I put about $50 in open pollinated seeds, canned about 100 quarts of veggies, plus the ones we ate that I did not count. We did have to fence in the larger garden, so the wire and posts cost about $80. I was able to save alot of seed for this year after buying the book, Seed to Seed, so hopefully I will be ahead of the game going into 2010. I bought asparagus crowns for $6 and they look good, so hopefully I will get that money back this year with harvesting a few. I was given garlic bulbs, so they are doing well for free. I have multiplying onions that I bought 3 years ago for $5 and they have continued to produce well for the past 3 years, and I save enough each year to have for next year's crop. We spent $100 in fruit trees and will spend another $150 this year. Hopefully, we will reap many more $$ in benefits over the many years to come. We buy these like we do insurance, as a safety net for the future. I got 5 blueberriebushes from my ex-hubby for free that are producing pretty well as is the wild blackberries that line the driveway and pastures. There are 2 producing pecan trees and a producing apple tree that were here when we moved here. We also raised our steer and feed 2 horses on the hay pastures here. We buy a little feed for the horses, so they are not free. We have not broken even on rabbits yet. We raised and butchered 7 successfully last year, but we feed a buck and 2 does, so I don't think we are even with them. I am beginning to forage for some of their food though so hopefully this year, we will come out even.So, overall, our farm is paying for itself, I think. DH and I are not really trying to make money off the farm yet. We are just trying to get it to break even. Then we will really be far ahead as our food will be free. We hope to acquire 3 heifers to raise calves with each year. BIL has a bull he keeps up here in the fall, so the breeding will be free. We will raise one steer for us and sell the other two calves when weaned. We also hope to sell eggs to pay for our feed costs over the year. We also hope to sell 6-7 pigs each year. One day my dreams include selling some fruit and produce off the farm. This money will hopefully pay the taxes and the feed expenses for the farm making it break even.
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One thing you can tell is every area is different. You can buy pigs here for $25-30, just saw 100-125 lbers for $75. You can make more money here raising dogs, don't ask me why but they will pay insane amounts for dogs.
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This thread has been an interesting read on a cold Sunday afternoon. I have to agree with Haypoint's post. There is much truth and reality in what he said. |
Have you thought about honeybees? You have some initial investment, but you'd have that with anything, and locally produced honey seems to sell pretty well everywhere.
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I'd guesstimate most people's homegrown food cost a lot more than the equivalent of buying it in a market. IF people figured out their time, infrastructure, feed, vet costs, care, etc., they'd realize it was a wash. If your time is worth anything, it's not worth it.
I do it anyway, knowing that I have living reproducing animals on hand that'll feed me now and into the future, (ir)regardless of whether civilization is still churning. The critters might get thinned down some without regular feedstore inputs, but all of them could survive on local forage. A "12 dollar" chicken in the henhouse beats a 2 'near free' chickens in the grocery store... especially if you have no faith there'll be a grocery store well stocked, if tshtf. |
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i've seen single calves go pretty cheap at the auctions...
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I'm glad someone on here is like me in the fact that a pencil needs put to the project at the very begining,for a true account of the cost.We are very frugal and have been over the years,or could not have gotten what we have.Here are some of our findings that you might find interesting.In the market garden the top ones for profit and work are Sweet Corn,Green Beans,New Red Potatos,Tomatoes(early)Peppers,late in the fall Pumpkins and Turnips serve your self off the hay rack.We do have the money box bolted to the rack.As far as animals go our hens pay for themselves and provide us with all the eggs we need for us and the kids.The three pigs i raise every year pay for three more next year and give us one free 270# every year,from the profit of the other two.The Welps Cornish Cross Chickens on the other hand are not a bargin but as we dont want chicken with 10 to 15% solution added and not very good we raise our own the cost is 1.60 per pound.These chicken are here and gone in 8 weeks tops.This is some of our things we do.We butcher our own and would be glad to show anyone how to do this and what you need. John
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Oh YEAH!
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No, buying batches off the farm is the way to go. Although you can get stung there too, if they have something bad in their herd....BTDT. HHubby has decided to expand from feeder calves to bottle calves. Anyone here do it this way? |
I notice that few people's calculations of whether or not their livestock is profitable seem to assign any value to labor, or account for opportunity costs.
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This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for every body's input. I'd like to throw out some things to get some input.
I have 4 acres, 3 of it being pasture, and 2 pole buildings. The buildings and pasture have pretty much gone unused since I moved there. Sure I use the sheds for storage, parking and work shop and the pasture has occasionally had critters on it that I let the neighbors use for free when asked. But last year I decided I wanted the place to start seeing some use and start paying some of it's way. The question has always been how. I have decided that I want my goals to be two fold. First, I want to learn to be more self sufficient. Note I didn't say I wanted "to be self sufficient" but I want to learn the skills that will help if I HAVE to be in the future. Next I wanted to save money (not to be confused with making money). Let's face it, I'm cheap. I'm generally not a "green" person (what's organic? LOL), not interested in improving my quality of food so to speak (heck, I prefer canned veggies over fresh, Go Del Monte!!), not interested in spending hours of time to save a $1. The wife and I both work, we have three daughters that take up much of our time and free time is at a minimum. Thus, free time is valuable. What I thought about doing was these items I'd I'd like some input: Rabbits. I'll make hutches outta scrap and frugally purchased supplies. The main goal is to supply some of the families meat (along with hunting). Meat Chickens. Won't be free range but raised in a coupe. Same goals as rabbits. Egg Chickens: Again these will be only for our consumption. Small garden with tomatoes, potatoes, onions, green beans, carrots, cucumbers, and maybe pumpkins (just a few so we don't have to buy them in the fall). Maybe a few other odds and ends that I'm not thinking of. Not gonna can. It's gonna be eat when fresh, freeze, or in the case of potatoes/carrots/onions, store them in the cellar. OK, so taking these items, can I effectively save money or is my cost gonna be roughly the same as if I had gone and bought em at the store? What about labor? Again, I don't want to do these to save a $1. I want it to be worth it on a dollar per hour basis. How much? Heck I don't know. Let's just say $5-$10/hour. So I guess the main question is this: Can I raise a few chickens, a few rabbits and a small garden and save enough money to pay for our time? Or should I just go back to being a frugal shopper? CB |
If one must ask the question of others, one should likely stay allegiant to the paper economy.
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Site would get mighty boring huh. CB |
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