Your Lawn Tractor Recommendations

tomstractormag · #41 01/02/10, 04:11 AM

[QUOTE=foxtrapper;4192377]Couple of very generic observations I've made and things I've learned over the years.

A 10 hp single cylinder Kohler engine is more powerful than a 20 hp Vtwin Briggs. A Kohler (or Kawasaki) engine is far better than any Briggs or Tecumseh.

Huh??? What are you talking about???
The K series Kohlers were a heck of an engine in their day. Keep a gas can handy though!
A 10hp K241 Kohler would not even be a shadow to a 20 vtwin.
A K341 16hp wouldnt even be close to a 16hp vanguard.
Actually a Briggs vanguard and a Kawi are about the same on quality. More an industrial engine.
Briggs intek are more >homeowner< quality but still crank out the power.
The kohler vtwins seem to lack long life. Kohler took a nosedive way back when with their opposed twin and never really recovered.
Tecumseh... I wouldnt give ya 2 cents for everyone ever built. Very weak internals.

All that being said on my tractors I am running
Speedex 8hp clone (honda knockoff)
2 Jim Dandys 1 with an 8hp Honda the other a 11hp Honda
Power King 13hp clone
Massey 14 Kohler (runs great but eats lots of Gas)
Allis Chalmers 620 16hp vtwin Briggs Vanguard (more power it seems than the 20hp onan opposed twin it had.

The newer ohv engines start nicer and are more fuel efficient.

Other than the MF14 and the AC620 mine are pull start, save buying a ton of batteries.

Now with all that being said back to original ?
Why do you want a big lawn anyway???

Tom

HermitJohn · #42 01/02/10, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

Old tractors like the Ford and others make awful mowers, IMO, if they do not have live PTO and hydraulics. You will be fighting to keep the mower blade turning and set at the right height, while constantly working the clutch.

Your DW and MIL, will have great forearms, from horsing the non-power steering for a couple of hours.

The 3K would be better spent on a used quaility garden tractor, with a decent sized mower deck, power steering and hydro drive. It is is well cared for, it should have many more years in it. JD, Cub and Kubota have some great models that would fit in this price range.

Couldnt give me "hydro drive" tractor, well you could GIVE it to me if as part of the deal, I could immediately turn around and resell it. I dont want to own one to use. But just try to find a modern garden tractor with a heavy duty cast iron manual transmission... Only manual trannies you see are on the really cheap mowers and then they are made absolutely as light duty as possible to get it through whatever warranty is offered.

As to power steering, unless you are playing ring around the rosey doing french curls mowing around bunch shrubbery in your yard or unless you have real tractor with a loader, you shouldnt need it.

We are talking light weight garden tractors here, not some 100hp behemoth picking up bales of hay with front end loader. Its not only tractors anymore, but small cars and trucks where if front tires are properly inflated should never even have option of power steering now make it standard. We have become a nation of wusses.

plowjockey · #43 01/02/10, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael W. Smith

I'm quite certain whomever bought our Cub Cadet piece of CRAP (we traded it in upon buying the Mahindra) is either cursing themselves everytime they try to mow with it, or else it's been scrapped.

Cub Cadet USED to make good mowers. They don't now!

And for those saying I got a lemon. I probably did. But my complaints to Cub Cadet went totally unheeded and I will NEVER deal with them again!

Cub Cadet is now just a brand name, ironically owned by MTD. They make the rider mowers, so they are what they are. The larger utility tractors, are Japanese Yanmars, which are high quality units.

String trimmers, power washers, etc., just use the name.

Another casualty of once awesome American manufacturing.

plowjockey · #44 01/02/10, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

Couldnt give me "hydro drive" tractor, well you could GIVE it to me if as part of the deal, I could immediately turn around and resell it. I dont want to own one to use. But just try to find a modern garden tractor with a heavy duty cast iron manual transmission... Only manual trannies you see are on the really cheap mowers and then they are made absolutely as light duty as possible to get it through whatever warranty is offered.

As to power steering, unless you are playing ring around the rosey doing french curls mowing around bunch shrubbery in your yard or unless you have real tractor with a loader, you shouldnt need it.

We are talking light weight garden tractors here, not some 100hp behemoth picking up bales of hay with front end loader. Its not only tractors anymore, but small cars and trucks where if front tires are properly inflated should never even have option of power steering now make it standard. We have become a nation of wusses.

The reason nearly all tractors (as well as MOST trucks and automobliles), do not have manual transmissions, or non power steering, is because NOBODY WANTS THEM or even needs them.

Worring about hydro reliability would maybe be fine, if this was 1974. Hydraulics will often last the life of the vehicle without even being touched, except for routine maintenance. The are countless 40 years old JD 140 hydro garden tractors, that work as perfect as when they were brand new.

I will buy a case of beer (or soda for the tee-totalers) for anyone who will mow with my 318 and then honestly tell me, that they would rather NOT have power steering on a garden tractor.

Besides, I like to prove my manhood elsewhere, than on a garden tractor.

PyroDon · #45 01/02/10, 11:14 PM

For mowing a hydro trans is great for anything else they are terrible .
I have a 23 hp sears (what they now call a garden tractor) I also have an old 1970s JD 110 retrofitted with an 11hp honda.
The JD is an old cast iron manual and it will drag the sears around like a trailor.
the fenders on the JD are heavier steel than the frame on the sears.
if all your planning to do is mow the new zero urns are fast and easy. if your planning on actually using it for anything other than mowing then your going to need what they call a compact tractor or find and older garden tractor

salmonslayer · #46 01/03/10, 12:37 AM

I really do appreciate the input and now you can see why I am taking my time and doing the research.

One thing that keeps coming through though is that the quality of the lawn/garden tractors manufactured today are not up to par with those of even 10 or 15 years ago. Almost every manufacturer review reveals dissatisfaction with build quality, or something or another that breaks and they get no customer service. Its hard to tell really but I am also getting the impression that many of the different brands are actually rebadged from another manufacturer.

chestnut · #47 01/03/10, 10:59 AM

I have a 1980's Case 446 with a 16hp onan, 48 inch mower. It has a hydraulic transmission not hydrastatic. It also has auxiliary hydraulics to run many attachments. I use it for wood splitter. Great little tractor for the price.
They are now sold as Ingersoll. Worth checking into.

plowjockey · #48 01/03/10, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chestnut

I have a 1980's Case 446 with a 16hp onan, 48 inch mower. It has a hydraulic transmission not hydrastatic. It also has auxiliary hydraulics to run many attachments. I use it for wood splitter. Great little tractor for the price.
They are now sold as Ingersoll. Worth checking into.

Just curious. What's the difference?

ibcnya · #49 01/03/10, 11:37 AM

I've ran a 1967 JD 110 with an 8 hp Kohler for the last 6 years. I mow approx. 3 acres and the last 3 years I've pulled a trailmower behind it to get a bigger swath.
I have needed parts a few times(belts, pulleys etc) and the local JD dealership still carries most everything for a mower that's 42 years old. Now that's service!
Just bought a GTX255 yesterday with 137 hours for $2500. But the best garden tractor of all time IMO is the JD 140. Built to last a lifetime.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1972-John-Deere-...item2eaa23a447

plowjockey · #50 01/03/10, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salmonslayer

I really do appreciate the input and now you can see why I am taking my time and doing the research.

One thing that keeps coming through though is that the quality of the lawn/garden tractors manufactured today are not up to par with those of even 10 or 15 years ago. Almost every manufacturer review reveals dissatisfaction with build quality, or something or another that breaks and they get no customer service. Its hard to tell really but I am also getting the impression that many of the different brands are actually rebadged from another manufacturer.

Reviews should be taken with a grain of salt, as many more unhappy customers willl respond, than those who just take the product and go, maybe with minimal or no problems.

I see people mowing their lawns, with the cheapies all summer long, so some of them must work.

The cheapies are built simple and cheap, but then they are sold cheap (relatively speaking). You can buy new higher quality lawn/garden tractors, but they are not going to cost $1499.00

The original JD 110 listed for $1100 (not including mower) 36 years ago!

chestnut · #51 01/03/10, 03:11 PM

Hi Plowjockey,
The Hydraulic drive has no transmission. It's a hydraulic pump connected to the engine and a Hydraulic motor on the rear end with forward and reverse control valve between. Speed is controlled by amount of fluid going to motor with forward/reverse lever. The big advantage is 12 GPM of hydro pressure that you can use for other impliments.

HermitJohn · #52 01/03/10, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

The reason nearly all tractors (as well as MOST trucks and automobliles), do not have manual transmissions, or non power steering, is because NOBODY WANTS THEM or even needs them.

Worring about hydro reliability would maybe be fine, if this was 1974. Hydraulics will often last the life of the vehicle without even being touched, except for routine maintenance. The are countless 40 years old JD 140 hydro garden tractors, that work as perfect as when they were brand new.

I will buy a case of beer (or soda for the tee-totalers) for anyone who will mow with my 318 and then honestly tell me, that they would rather NOT have power steering on a garden tractor.

Besides, I like to prove my manhood elsewhere, than on a garden tractor.

I guess I dont exist then if nobody wants manual transmission. I sure do if its a good heavy duty one.

No manhood to it, I drove old farm tractors with no power steering when I was 8 years old. You do have to pay attention to air pressure in the tires and you do have to think ahead a bit.

You do need power steering on BIG tractors/vehicles and on tractors with loader or other heavy load on front of tractor. You dont need power steering on a lawn mower. If you need to mow big area and do constant loop de loops with it, then get one of those zero turn things. You do however need real manual steering gear box with an easy to turn gear ratio. The el cheapo mowers with manual steering tend to cheap out with couple stamped finger pawls, totally open and not lubed. Those are to put it mildly, pure cheap crappo engineering and in short time make steering a real pain in rear.

A good cast iron manual transmission will last a lifetime if you maintain good oil seals and dont let it run dry and dont abuse it by jamming it into gear. Auto trannies of any kind are not lifetime, no matter how much you click your red shoes together and really want to believe. True in 1974 and true today. They also are very expensive to repair, meaning your car or mower is throw away when the inevitable happens. Again for a lifetime transmission, I am talking quality manual transmissions, not some light duty piece of crap, too light duty for the job, but saved the manufacturer a couple extra nickels.

And some of us dont use alcohol nor soda pop.....

ibcnya · #53 01/03/10, 03:26 PM

My wife likes to plant things all over the 3 acres I mow. My power steering for quite a few years has consisted of a cheater knob bolted to the steering wheel doing crazy 8's all over the yard and getting as close to the brick circles as I can to lessen the trimming. As far as shifting? I have ground a pound shifting gears and clutching and I'm tired of it. Hydraulics is the answer!

HermitJohn · #54 01/03/10, 04:02 PM

Guess I dont get it, on a tractor, you arent constantly shifting unless you are shuttling forward to reverse and back again. Mowing, plowing, whatever out on the back 40, you pick best compromise speed and only stop and gear down if you hit a real tough patch. Not like driving a road vehicle at all.

In a car or truck there can be significant shifting, but not like I am sitting there thinking about it, when it feels like I need to downshift or upshift, I just do it out of pure habit. Now at times driving vehicle without overdrive, I find myself wanting to upshift yet again, but there isnt a gear to upshift into. And my big bugaboo is shift patterns can be reversed between vehicles. My F250 and Festiva, first is up. On my modified Ranger with an old 3spd, first is down and up is REVERSE. Grrrrr..... how many times have I put it in reverse without thinking......

foxtrapper · #55 01/03/10, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomstractormag

Huh??? What are you talking about???

That Kohler builds a far superior engine to Briggs or Tecumseh.

poppy · #56 01/03/10, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxtrapper

That Kohler builds a far superior engine to Briggs or Tecumseh.

Very true. I haven't owned a Tecumseh for a long time, but a Kohler will outlast a Briggs 3 to 1 from my experience.