How long would you survive if the stores were empty?

Interesting thread. I remember my grandmother who lived on a farm in Michigan during the depression still ate lard and onion sandwiches up until she died in 1993. My folks on the other hand who were both small kids during the depression dont see the need to stockpile and they think DW and I are a little off center because we always keep a lot of food in the house and try and do things for ourselves.

On the subject of storing water, a local outfitter here has 55 gallon blue poly vinyl drums for water storage (used for remote cabins) and I was wondering how water would store in something like that. I mean, would the water remain potable for long periods of time or would you have to treat it? I kind of envision a green slime building up and having to strain a glass of water through my teeth.

Our farm in Missouri has a pond that is plumbed to the barn, two wells currently used for irrigation, we collect rain water for the green house and we have county water for the houses but I am looking at storing some drinking water just in case. I just dont have the experience other than what I have discovered in my canteen after a couple months of non-use.

As for food, we could survive for months even if we did no hunting or foraging. DW and I have been foraging for about 10 years now and you would be amazed at what is edible right in your own area. We also often cook outside and dont need a grill, nothing like a piece of meat cooked over an open wood fire.

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www.salmonslayer-simplelife.blogspot.com

read the humanure hand book free for download it will save you from treating your excriment like waste and wasting your drinkin water to to waste your excriment.

don't get me wrong the drums are good but i just told you how to get many extra days from your drums make sure you figure 2 gal per person per day

One of the issues that may well be coming is a scarcity of fertilizer. Flushing your waste down a toilet is indeed just wasting it. (pardon the pun!)

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Growing trees and food in Costa Rica.

There really is no shortage of fertilizer.

I did a little writing on that topic in the survival forum.

Forerunner's Compost and threads (updated 3/9/10)

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

My dh remembers eating lard sandwiches. Yech!

We still have several holes in our preps: water, meds, & health. Our well is too deep to hand pump - water would have to be hauled at least a mile.

We are not able to stock up more than 3 months on our meds, but then, hard work & no junk food might make them unnecessary.

Dh is old & I'm diabetic. At least I don't need insulin.

If all goes well, we have enough food for 3-6 months - tho I'd probably run out of coffee.

Someone mentioned storing cat & dog food in jars. That could be a heck of a lot of jars! We have 4 cats & go thru a large bag of dry food in very short time. In a EOTHWAWKI - short or long term - they might have to catch most of their own food.

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God bless,
Bonnie
Opportunity Farm
Northeast Washington

"While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10

Isn't this based on an assumption no one else wants all this stuff you are getting? If everyone all of a sudden has to grow their own food, you are going to pay dearly for anything like manure, unless it is your own. When most people think we are wild eyed loons, sure you can get all the leaves and manure you want, but that won't be true if all goes bad.

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Growing trees and food in Costa Rica.

"Almost everything from the store is a luxury item. They have a school but we homeschool so that is of no use to us, certainly not a necessity."

We lost one income from our two income family (the higher earner's). I have been unemployed for over a year now and never realized just how much I used to buy were "luxury items." I always thought of luxuries as being Yachts, million dollar homes, Rolls Royce, diamonds etc... having television is a luxury (which we have been gratefully without for almost a year now), luxury is being able to buy chicken in the summer months when it is most expensive (and now that we raise them we won't need that luxery item too much longer luxury is owning more than one pair of jeans.
The funny thing is I feel more blessed now than any other time in my life! We had 3 acres we really were not doing anything with except growing a few fruit trees. We now have pigs, chickens, rabbits, worm composting beds, etc... it is very small in comparison to most here practicing sustainable living but now that we have started I don't want to ever turn back! I am now even home schooling my kids and they (or I) have never been happier! I had no idea what we were really missing out on. I enjoy visiting your web-site to get valuable advice and motivation (thank you) because "yes" it is a harder lifestyle but so much more rewarding.

Well, it does depend on the time of year for my wife and I....We have enough beef, chicken, home grown vegatables, frozen apple pies and deer jerky to last us until late June. If the stores closed up on us between Memorial Day and July 4th, we would have a lot more exposure to not having enough at that time. We literally would be down to peas, lettuce, and the other garden items coming in that time of year.

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Hillbilly and Proud of It!

6 months to a year without a garden. With a garden, and no theives, maybe a long time.

I'm stocked for months, I know how to hunt ,trap and fish and garden when it's in season. If the power goes out I have jars and lids to can everything in the freezers. I have way more lead than silver or gold and I expect it will be more valuable if the day comes. The rest of my "info" is none of anyone's bidness. But in the end when it's all said and done, we all meet our Maker. And if the SHTF as some folks predict it will the "survivalists" just might have to suffer a little or alot longer. And that's the bottom line.

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We have now officially entered the twilight zone.

Everybody really needs to read The Modern Survival Manual, Surviving The Economic Collapse by Fernando "Ferfal" Aguirre. Aguirre lived through the collapse in Argentina in 2001-02 and the subsequent lowering of living standards, dramatic increase in crime, etc. You can get this book at http://ferfal.blogspot.com/ . About a third of the book covers various weapons and self-defense techniques (such as fighting with knives) since crime becomes a HUGE problem and people are willing to kill for a few cents.

Another important thing is to have some silver, and gold if you can afford to. Importantly, he notes that you will still have to earn money, so being self-employed is important, I'm reading so many posts from homesteaders who are now out of work. He says that getting food is the worst problem, since looters tend to go for the supermarkets first. Electricity tends to become sporadic.

In many ways the people like Rawles who advocate stocking up and moving to the boonies either haven't done it or are independently wealthy. During Y2K people stocked up in a panic, and then had to figure out what to do with all that food that they hated but would keep well since the Apocalypse failed to materialize.

Eventually the US may default on its debt, but when? I don't know how long the Federal Reserve can keep buying T Bonds. Supposedly, this is supposed to lead to hyperinflation, but hasn't yet. Maybe it's because banks have found that they can get money from the Fed at 0% and lend it to Treasury at 3.5%, thus eliminating the need for regular loans, and the risk of some default. So banks aren't lending to average folks, why should they when they've got the government?

A couple of years ago we got belted with a icestorm. Out of electricity for almost 2 weeks. Food and water wise we made it just find. But with darkness starting around 5 p.m. we would get bored easily and maybe fall asleep early. Then we would be awake about 3 a.m. and wishing it was daylight so we could go outside to do something. That was killing us more then anything.

So you better have more then just food and water stocked up.

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r.h. in oklahoma

Raised a country boy, and will die a country boy.

Sounds like my life! But we tend to go to bed around 9 pm and get up at 3 am. The issue is that in the tropics, it gets dark around 6, so after 3 or so hours, my body is just sure since it is warm, it must be 11 or 12 at night!

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Growing trees and food in Costa Rica.

I think the folks here, that have been here a good while, know that moderation is a key factor - even in the books recommended. Most of us don't have to put down long time members to make a point.

Maybe less put downs, and more help would work more.

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"Live your life, and forget your age." Norman Vincent Peale

Not knowing your circumstances I'll stick to generalizations and examples. The first place I would look to is relatives then folks I've known for a while. Even there I'd pick and choose. Have discussions ahead of time.

You can also get a sense of folks from when they come to visit. Do they pitch in or at least offer or do they sit around expecting you to wait on them? We invite folks to visit us at our farm but we always have some chores on any given day. Some folks jump right in despite our telling them not to worry. Some folks not only don't offer but don't even pick up after themselves.

As far as loyalty, there are no guarantees. Choosing wisely ahead of time is the best way to address this. Loyalty is also generated because people trust you as a leader.

If you choose to invite people to your place on the basis of a democracy/right to vote then you accept that they may vote you out of leadership.

You will ultimately have to share information with folks you take into your fold. No good way around it. You may not share every detail but you need to share enough that they understand why it is in their self interest to throw in with you.

You also need to consider neighbors and folks in your area. You might find some reliable and easy to deal with. Others might be a huge threat. If you have Amish neighbors then they aren't likely to be counted on in a fight even though they might otherwise be good neighbors. To the extent you can work with others in the area the better off you are. If we can help stop a threat somewhere down the road then it means we aren't fighting on our own place.

Just a few thoughts.

Mike

When I was 13 we had an ice storm (north Alabama) that knocked out power for over two weeks. I don't remember it being much different from the way we always lived. Mama always cooked on the wood cookstove (still does) and the house was heated with wood).

We had a well to get water from and that was one of our chores...carrying buckets of water to the house. Also, whenever we had bad weather Mama would fill up all pans, pails, buckets and the bathtub with water beforehand.

The staircase separated the living room from the kitchen and Daddy would put the Coleman lantern on the staircase at night. It lit our house up so well the neighbors actually called and asked if our power was on!

We went to bed at our regular time...entertained ourselves the way we always did (we had no TV) me reading, my brother and sister playing board games, Mama reading or crocheting, Daddy doing his gunsmithing work, dozing in his chair or telling us kids stories about when he was a boy.

Honestly, not having any entertainment once it gets dark is not a problem for me. I have enough books in this house that I'll have reading material for years! Plus, I like to do different crafts. My husband is a reader too and we have lots of board games on hand as well.

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I'm running so far behind I thought I was first!

http://hickahala.blogspot.com/

Some folks mentioned that alarmism might be scaring some folks...

my viewpoint is this...

If you prepare for the worst, such as an outbreak of zombies, everything less will be covered, easily.

If you only prepare for the three day scenario, there are so many REAL scenarios (sans the fictitious zombie outbreak), where your family either won't survive, or will end up in one of those lovely luxurious FEMA camps.

In short, buy the best insurance policy you can afford (prep for the worst), and all the small emergencies will be a cakewalk. Get an el cheapo policy (prepping for a week without food) and if things are worse, you suffer. Most of the prep goods I've invested in I use on a regular basis. The stuff I don't use, appreciates with value over time (hedge against inflation).

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

I suppose that, even so, black dirt will outlast the typical supply of beans, batteries and toilet paper.
But then there is also the possibility of pulling together as a community, pooling organic resources, labor and land to create a local garden utopia.
Rather than isolate out of fear, greed and/or selfishness, band together for a noble cause and see each other through.

The bottom line is to do with what you have before it's too late.

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

DH and I have more than a year's grains, beans, and canning lids. We also have many month's of canned foods (including baking supplies, manual wheat grinder, butter churn, coffee grinder, oils/fats), save OP seeds, have chickens for eggs and meat, rabbits, pork and beef on the hoof. We have a stocked pond, a well with a hand pump, fruit trees, brambles, and a large garden with manure for fertilizer. We have a wood burning stove and woodlot, oil lamps with at least a year's supply of oil, and parts for solar power that we hope to have finished in 2010 with an energy star refrigerator added also. We have knowledge of rendering lard, making soap, and butchering. We would need dairy goats or a cow, but other than that, we should get along pretty good considering we have about 12 acres in cross-fenced pastures. I have 6 months supply of most of my meds with me being diabetic and disabled. Hopefully, I will have my perinnial (sp) herb garden in place with the knowledge of how to use them for most common needs we would have here on the homestead completed in the next year. We have several means of security here including DH is LEO with necessary sidearms and ammo, thorny bushes planted strategecally (sp) around the farm, limited access with locked gate/fences, and several guard dogs in the yard.

I have lived in two different regions where power outages due to weather were not uncommon. The great lesson I have learned from the long term outages is that I am now mentality and emotionally prepared to deal with one. The emotional and mental toll is as serious a problem as going without supplies. Most people can't hack it.

Personally, I much rather be in a cold climate when the power goes off. It is so much easier to deal with.