Rules and regulations

I'd say get rid of them all in unincorporated areas. If some people want to build and manage a town / city... go for it. I totally get that. But there really needs to be a way for folks to live in freedom and a state of independence if they choose. That's what all the blood's been shed for over the last 200 years, right?

Freedom. Independence. They are big words with big, very clear meanings.

How truly free am I if I have to ask someone's permission to build a shelter to live in on land that I supposedly own??? And what if I can't afford to pay the $1 per square foot permitting/extortion fee?? Human beings have been building their own shelters for thousands of years without having to ask permission or get their designs and colors approved by others.

If left to my own devices I could build a basic, passive solar home that will last a lifetime for right around $30 / sq. ft.. Get the local government involved and that number easily doubles... with no perceivable value to me or the process. I want to build and live in a small, modest sized home that costs us in the range of $30,000 in materials to build and I'd like to be "allowed" to spend as much time on the job as the job takes. But the government on all levels does what it can to push the costs up to closer to $100,000 and they want me to get the job done in a year or pay additional permitting fees to extend the building time. The only way to do it their way is to go into debt for the next 30 years and pay something like 20 times the cost of materials to a bunch of soulless bankers. Chances are I'd be dead before I ever "owned" it.

I have begun to think that all these rules and regulations are about trying to get people into as much debt as possible and make us as dependent upon big businesses as possible. You can't build a house on your own without a bank, architect, and contractor(s)... right?? What are you going to do, grow your own food?? Fix your own car??

For centuries now my ancestors have periodically had to flee their homes and move further into the wilds in order to live as free people... problem is there's not many places to retreat to these days. Where do those who want to live independently go from here?

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Patrick Harris
http://ByExample.com

We need more the building codes don't go far enough. You must get permission to live in your house from the neighbors and the closest town. If you don't then you cant live their. It is to keep outsiders from living in your area or people that you don't like moving in next door. That would cut down on trouble later on. You must have a 3,000 foot home and it will be built by my slandered. If you want to do anything outside you need my permission like paint your house or cut your yard. All septic tanks will have more drain lines on them and it must be 1,000 feet from my well. That is the way a lot of people think. I live in an area that doesn't have any building codes except for the ones that the state put out like septic tank and well. You can put up a shed with four two by fours and sheets of plywood and call it home for all I care and some have done it. The property values are about the same as any other area. I have a 10X30 foot house close to mine and it is still the same price as it was before it was built.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

The purpose of any of the so-called building codes such as NEC or other NFPA codes is primarily safety. Governments don't write codes. They may adopt those which code organizations develop and maintain. Once adopted, the jurisdictions' inspectors can enforce them.

Safety codes are not quality codes when it comes to appearance. You can buy a house that is up to code and still have a structure with crappy workmanship in many areas and cheap appliances that won't last long. The house may have a code compliant electrical and plumbing system and still be crap.

Ideally, in less populated areas, people should be able to get some kind of an exemption to the building code. Such exemption would be documented with the title. The consequences would be that insurance would likely be expensive or unavailable, mortgages would be difficult or impossible to get, and resale value would reflect the exemption. In brief, someone should be able to willingly do what they want, provided they:
- comply with basic zoning restrictions (height, purpose, etc.); and
- respect basic environmental laws (sewage treatment); and
- doesn't mind their home being valued like not more than bare land; and
- pay their way (no mortage available) and take their chances (no property insurance and possibly no liability insurance)

However, society has minimal expectations, and rules and regulations dealing with building codes are intertwined with other laws of the land, so I imagine problems of all kinds would surface (Child Services may intervene because a place is not "livable", etc.).

That just about sums up why we live where we do. We do have the county Sheriff's dept for law enforcement every other day. They alternate with the state police. Our taxes aren't low. There are approx 100 tax bills going out each year. We're a town of 55 permanent residents. The rest are camps and large private land owners with land in tree growth.

We don't have town zoning. We're bound by state laws but if you want to be stupid on your own property the town isn't going to stop you. Private cemeteries, green burial and outhouses are legal as long as you follow state laws. We don't tell you what you can and can't do on your property as long as it's ok with the state. I grew up in a town that required a building permit to change your kitchen cabinets. I remember as a kid knowing it just isn't right to have to ask for permission to change your cabinets. We don't care if you paint your house purple and white stripes (my great aunt did that to her camp when she was alive).

If you're elderly and living in a home that isn't safe we will offer help. Then we'll offer again. Then we'll keep track of you until we've gently convinced you that your house really is going to fall in on you this winter and get you moved into a mobile home. A resident's home will be flattened next week and a mobile home will be moved into its place.

We don't have to have a lot of rules and laws to take care of ourselves and our own. Our town works well. It's a nice way to live.

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Robin

I like mild zoning that segragates things a little - keep rural rural, and city city.

I think septic should be regulated enough to keep the ooze from being a health problem or an environmental problem.

I think electrical & plumbiing code are good just because realestate gets sold probably several times and doing these wrong sets up a danger to others over the life of the property. I can understand people should live with their own mistakes, but in these areas - maybe we can learn from the past & not need to educate ourselves so very much individually?

Houses probably need some bit of structure code - for the same reasons.

Outbuildings less so.

Many of these have gotten into micro-managing by now, and are just way over the top.

Streamline, downsize, keep it to a point that is important. Not the bloated direction it all is going.

What really bothers me is code/zoning that is devoted to valuations - like the minimum house footage, etc. That your property needs to conform to some sort of $$$ value so it is like everyone else's. That ain't their business. Grrrr.

I believe in mild, simple, regulation by the govt - keep things a tad safe, keep some common sense.

But so much is going way beyond that, and that is not right.

--->Paul

"If you're elderly and living in a home that isn't safe we will offer help. Then we'll offer again. Then we'll keep track of you until we've gently convinced you that your house really is going to fall in on you this winter and get you moved into a mobile home. A resident's home will be flattened next week and a mobile home will be moved into its place.

We don't have to have a lot of rules and laws to take care of ourselves and our own. Our town works well. It's a nice way to live."

I like some of your hometown concepts, but I have some questions:

1. At what age do I become elderly?
2. What makes my home unsafe?
3. How do you know if I own my home or rent it, or if it belongs to my son/daughter?
4.Who is "we"?
5. What kind of "help" will you offer me?
6. If I don't concede that I need your help, what form of "gentle persuasion" will you use?
7. Who will keep track of me, the police?

YOU'LL FLATTEN MY HOME OVER MY DEAD BODY---But then, I would have moved out of your homey town a long time ago.....

Personally, I think I'll just continue to live in areas that don't have them (other than septic inspection). Seems much easier that way.

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~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

Some good points mentioned so far.
How many have connected the dots between the UBC/IBC and the mega money "Building Supply" industry which draws (or sucks,depending on your position) its/our life-blood from the ultra rigid rules they ridgedly support...?
And why would'nt they...seeing as how a huge industry has been built up around forcing stick built, sheetrock lined "Rabbit Hutches" for the masses... on multiple generations.
For there own safety and good...of course. Wink, nod...
Like Seinfeld used to say: Not that there is anything wrong with that....
Ever wonder why, if a "green" home is supposed to be better for the occupants, the community, and the world, why is it impossible, or nearly so to gain "Approval" to actually build one?
Well how much money do you suppose the "Green" industry has spent on lobbyists, compared to the entrenched UBC backed Building materials machine...?
Try and get permitted to build an Earthship, a straw bale home, Oregon cob, etc.
You will quickly find out that the system is happy to take your permit money (and lots of it) if you are supporting the bloated non-efficient current system.
But woe be unto you should you wish to cut (most) of the industry out of the pig trough.
Say you are planning a composting toilet.
No can do, they will likely insist on a full septic system, that you may never even use.
Say you have a huge thermal mass designed in, and plenty of South facing glass like a greenhouse (think Earthship) and a wood cooking/heating stove.
Think you're covered for heat (Probably yes, depending on where you live of course), think again, you will probably be "Required" to install some form of central heat...to meet some rule designed for an entirely different type of structure.
Talk about crazy you might say, but not crazy at all.
The current system is designed and implemented to serve a purpose.
The catch is that it is just not intended to serve the people/ the end users as it were.
But it sure works good at providing a living for a whole slew of parasites and goverment entities...whoops, said the same thing twice using different words, my bad.
Now I am "NOT" saying that all planning, and all inspections are bad, NO.
The whole system simply needs to evolve and adapt to current/modern/advanced techniques... as they become known and available.
The big rub here is that what is in the consumers best interest is not always (Like virtually never) in the best financial interests of the buggy whip manufactures.
So who wins out most times?
Lets say, just for argument sake that the UBC was "Originally" designed with good intent. Doubtful, but its my story, so lets go with it.
And this was back in the lathboard and old newspapers for insulation days.
So... when much better building techniques (and materials used) come along, why won't the powers that be allow the regulations to adapt alongside the new building techniques???
Now (Money) don't (Money) try (Money) and (Money) answer (Money) that one before removing the blinders.
America, not exactly what the founding fathers envisioned, I expect.
So just where is the bottleneck here...?
Anyone have a slight clue yet...
Can you say "Civil disobedience" with a Ghandi-like accent?

http://www.constitution.org/law/bastiat.htm

Here's some required reading for those who are tired of being milked.

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“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.
III

One zoning regulation I would like to see abolished is the fence limitation reg. You are not allowed to have a fence more than 3 1/2 feet high (try finding chain link that short) and it must be see-through. If I want to put a 6 foot tall fence with a lock on my gate in front of my house I should be allowed to do so. 3 1/2 feet isn't tall enough to keep most dogs in (so it would compromise the safety of someone walking in front of the house) and it's not tall enough to keep anyone over 5 feet tall out (compromising the homeowner's safety.

I would vigorously enforce the zoning laws regarding junk. Especially for the lazy white trash idiots that somehow think its a joke and have an impromtu junk yard brewing.
We no longer are living in the middle ages, but rather live in a civilized manner.
I have no problem with people having junk. Please store it somewhere that one can't see it. You may not care a bit about your hovel.
I however, take pride in my place, and keep it clean. Clean property means that the property will continue to appreciate in value.
Old grubby trailers, and junk galore means depreciating property values. Often it means crime.

Fortunately, I live in a zoned area. I don't have to worry about Jed Clampette & his lazy white trash clan moving upwind of me and starting a junkyard or a trailer park.....and of course, devaluing my property in the process.

IS zoning sometimes over zealous? Of course. Nothing is perfect.

I wish building inspectors had less power, period.

Right after we bought our ranch we needed to get power to the section of our ranch where our pioneer cabins are. We were installing a phone pole near the cabin with a meter box and an outlet on it. We needed outlets there so we had power to fix up the buildings.

The building inspector was outraged that he had to drive that far. He got out of his truck and had a screaming temper tantrum. I honestly thought he was going to punch my husband! Hubby is a pretty soft spoken, level headed guy, and had just gotten out of our car. He hadn't said or done anything to make the inspector angry. The inspector was there for the phone pole meter and box, and instead he turned around and pointed to the pioneer structures, which we had boarded up to keep the vandals out until we could fix them up. He demanded that we un-board the structures so he could enter the buildings. We didn't have a screwdriver or cordless drill int he car, and he wasn't willing to wait for us to drive back to the main house and get one. He said he was going to condemn them and order us to tear them down! A contractor friend of ours that had dealt with this guy many times called him and managed to get him to back off the threats he made.

He put such fear and disrespect of building inspectors in me that I will do anything to avoid having to deal with one again.

A nasty temper, huge ego and willingness to abuse your authority can do terrible things to the publics willingness to work with them.

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I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam.

Popeye