Help with LGD

"I guess since I don't actually own a LGD, I can't have a valid opinion?"


That would be correct
It's obvious you just don't understand things from a lgd owners point of view.

In the middle of last winter I clomped out into a serious snowstorm. I had heard the terrible cry of a dog in distress- LOL!
It turned to be the loopiest beagle i have ever met! He lives down the road apiece. And even though it sounds like he's dieing, there's never any real problem!
Now that I know it's him, he's just part of the song!
He bothers me not one bit!
I have to tolerate all sorts of human cacaphony-
The animal noises are the least of my problems!

My neighbor 2 doors down has donkeys and guineas.
They cant hear my dogs over all that!

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In the middle of last winter I clomped out into a serious snowstorm. I had heard the terrible cry of a dog in distress- LOL!
It turned to be the loopiest beagle i have ever met! He lives down the road apiece. And even though it sounds like he's dieing, there's never any real problem!
Now that I know it's him, he's just part of the song!
He bothers me not one bit!
I have to tolerate all sorts of human cacaphony-
The animal noises are the least of my problems!

More importantly, Cliff, I think that since he's never owned an LGD, Haypoint doesn't understand the LGD's point of view.

When we got our first LGD, in May, he barked all night long. We have no neighbors to disturb, but I myself was at the end of my tether with all the barking, and it was MY DOG! So I can understand that a disinterested 3rd party might be really peeved by that. I got used to the barking in a week or so, and found it actually comforting to know that he was "working" for me while I was sleeping.

Then in August we got him a partner. She rarely barks, unless there's a darned good reason, and because there are now two of them, he's stopped barking all night long because he's no longer responsible for the whole place himself. He has backup. Now, when I wake up in the middle of the night for some reason and don't hear any barking, I worry that something's happened to them. But they always greet me at the door at first light, safe and sound. I guess it's going to take me longer to get used to NO barking, than it did to get used to the constant barking.

If you can get a 2nd dog, that's what I'd suggest. I've heard a lot of LGD people say it makes a difference when there's more than one (regarding the constant barking), and it seems to be true in our case as well.

I would NEVER be without one of these dogs again. Good luck with your little girl. She will amaze you! You'll wonder why it took you so long to get her in the first place. Trust me.

~Lannie

Yup, Cliff and MOgal, I don't understand the LGD point of view.
Trouble is the LGD doesn't understand the neighbor's point of view either.
Perhaps you haven't had neighbors complain about a barking dog. By your logic, that makes you unqualified to comment?

We have an obligation to our animals. When we buy a scouring calf, but don't know the first thing about calves or scours, its the calf that dies. When we buy a Border Collie for our small children in our small back yard, it is the dog that suffers. Not so many years ago, people that thought there was big money in exotic birds, ended up turning their Emu loose. Today, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of horses have been abandoned because people that thought they wanted/needed a horse no longer want the responsibility. Any time we get an animal or pet that isn't suited to our situation, the animal suffers.

It seems to me, and I could be wrong because I don't own a LGD, that adding a large barking canine to your homestead to protect four goats, is unwarranted.

Over the years, I've read the promotions over the next greatest addition to your farm. Beefalo, Angora goats, Scottish Highlanders, Belted Galloway, Lamas, Alpacas, Silver Fox, Emu, Guard Donkeys, Weeder Geese, BLM horses, PMU horses, fainting goats, Russian Boars, and on and on.

All too often the hopeful homesteader is duped and the purchase is just another drain on the limited farming budget. The animals become unwanted and the animals suffer.

Because I see this forum as a sharing of knowledge, I often comment on topics that I have had a good amount of experience with. Sometimes, I comment on things based on my personal beliefs.

In this thread, the owner of a LGD was having neighbor troubles and needed a way to quiet their fairly new Maremma. Some responded with shuttering the dog into the small shed with the goats. Shock therapy was suggested. Some explained that barking is just what they do.

In my life's experiences, I've seen people buy a breed of dog based on its looks or how one acted on a movie they watched without really understanding what is normal behavior for this breed. I've seen Border Collies, Labs, Beagles, Rottweilers and Weimaraners kept on a 12 foot chain in the back yard. I've known of dogs that were shot, poisoned or euthanized because of excessive barking.

My advise wasn't so much for the owner of the barking Maremma as to those others that might be considering adding this breed to their family.

Considering the potential problems a LGD can create in your neighborhood, might give someone pause, "Do the benefits out weigh the headaches?" If just one LGD isn't brought to this difficult situation, then my time spent in this discussion was worth it.

Yes, it might be too late for this LGD, but in discussing it, people thinking of getting a LGD will reconsider.

It is my hope that a solution, suitible to the dog's best interest, is found. I also hope others with neighbors will reconsider such a purchase.

Lannie's experience is that two dogs work much better. In my experience, a pair of dogs will run far and wide, unless one is tethered. Just different experiences.

Your points are well taken. I've said for years that when a human screws up, it's invariably the animal that suffers, be it your calf with scours, a horse that the owner can no longer to feed or a barking dog. Incidentally, I've fed several abandoned horses and helped to find new homes for a couple. During the Great Depression, my grandfather brought home an abandoned little neighbor boy whose daddy had beaten him for the umpteenth time, left him on the roadside and told him not to come home. He and my grandmother raised him to adulthood.

However, in an attempt at humor, I was trying to point out that not having experience with the breed, perhaps you didn't understand the LGD mind. Hopefully, by engaging in this conversation, you know that LGDs have been bred and used for several thousand years to bark as their first line of defense to chase off predators. You can't turn that off in a week of training even with a shock collar and they really don't like being locked up as they also patrol their territory most of the night. Granted, it might be overkill to have a Pyr to guard 4 goats but if a predator gets all four goats, what then? All your chickens? Oh, well! Your kid is playing in the back yard and a bear or cougar drags him away? That happened to a baby in a stroller in the northeast a few years ago when its mother made a terrible choice to rescue another child first.

I currently have 5 LGDs including the Pyr pup that found her way to our barn last Friday morning--yes, I'm taking steps to find her owner. We keep them as much for our own protection as we do for our animals. A few examples: 1) We have been on this land 13 years and in that time, we've had several episodes of burglary rings working in the area. A deputy sheriff stopped to inform me that the house directly across the road from us was one they hit. Upon seeing our dogs, he laughed and assured me that no thief in his right mind would be tempted to rob us because they don't want the commotion of a barking dog. 2) Nobody enters our yard unless they know our dogs. One day the doorbell rang and when I answered it, a scruffy looking young man was standing there. Without unlocking the storm door, I asked how he'd gotten past my dogs. He said "What dogs?" and as if on cue, two adult Pyrs rounded the corner. The man who was somewhat under the influence sobered up REAL quick and asked if they bite. My pat answer is "not yet as long as you don't do anything stupid." I let him decide what stupid would entail. I put the dogs on a sit stay and asked him what he wanted. He was looking for someone I didn't know on a road I didn't know. As soon as he left, I called our local post office to see if such a person/road existed. Answer--NO to both questions. In my heart of hearts, I know the guy was casing our house to rob later or to push past me if I were stupid enough to open the door if my dogs hadn't shown up at a critical moment. 3) Currently, we have a family about 2 miles to our west who have been caught robbing a local grocery after hours. The grown grandson's fingerprints have been found inside homes that have been robbed. Police searches have found stolen goods on their 10 acres. None has yet to see more than one night in jail and I don't know why. 4) Further down our road where it turns onto the pavement, a man and woman randomly took the nearest exit off the interstate and broke into a house when the owner was home--broad daylight. She shot the man inside her house and the pair retreated. Later the female thief was apprehended when she abandoned the man's corpse. That driveway looks like a military security check point now. 5) In the early 90's, another pair of miscreants on a crime spree from Indiana to Oklahome murdered an elderly couple in their home just off the next exit west. Maybe dogs would have discouraged the two men, maybe they would have just shot them too, who knows? If it were the former, the old folks might yet be alive. If the latter, maybe, just maybe the homeowners would have had time to call 911 and secure their doors. They were of an age and time when doors weren't locked, keys were left in cars, and their survivors said they trusted everybody. And my husband's job requires frequent travel for up to a week at a time. I depend on our dogs as just one more layer of home security.

I've taken preemptive steps to maintain good terms with our neighbors by speaking to them about the dogs and the barking, apologizing in advance if it became a nuisance and requesting that they let me know. In every case but one, the neighbors have been grateful that the dogs were also there to alert them that something might be amiss. The one case of the neighbor who complained, I didn't worry too much about. They have more dogs than we do, make no effort to keep them at home, their kids ride 4 wheelers constantly. The new husband of the oldest girl comes home from work at 3 a.m. in the loudest truck you can imagine. They don't have a leg to stand on.

Didn't mean to write a novel. Just wanted to let you know what I meant about your not understanding the mind of the breed. Poor attempt at humor without explanation. I'm done.

I don't need a LGD to protect 4 goats.

I live over twenty minutes out of town where law enforcement response time for a legitimate call is 45+ minutes. I live on a private road that on a map appears to access over 3000 acres of landlocked property. The road is gated on my property just past my house. Almost weekly, I run out trespassers, sometimes in the middle of the night. The dog is not only there to protect my 5 goats during the night but also to alert me that somebody is there. Granted, her barking doesn't alert me to much if she barks all night, that is one reason I want to get her barking under control.

During the daytime, she protects my 20+/- chickens and my turkeys. Just about a year ago, we lost 16 chickens in just a few weeks. Some to bobcats and many to hawks. Aside from two turkeys that kept getting stuck outside my fence (and I got sick of running them back in), I have not lost a single animal since we got her.

Yes, it might be too late for this LGD, but in discussing it, people thinking of getting a LGD will reconsider.

No, it's not too late for this LGD. In two nights I was able to quiet her. I would like to get away from locking her up at night but until she matures, that will have to wait. I leave her in my yard until I go to bed and correct her when she barks excessively so that she still gets guard time at night and learns that she does need to quiet down. It has really been no great task to overcome this hurdle. My neighbors have already thanked me for the huge improvement. I would buy another LGD in a heartbeat and I would recommend that others do the same if necessary

If I thought your big noisy tractor was "unwarranted" would you park it to make me happy? You could use a scythe and not disturb the peace and quiet.
And if you dont, someone could put sugar in your fuel tank, or slash your tires

Sounds pretty foolish when it's reworded , huh?

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Glad to hear it's working.
She will improve with age, (and your neighbors hearing will degrade with age)

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Bearfootfarm,
Yup, foolish.
We humans are a fickle lot at times. We put up with one thing and get cranked up over another. Go figure.

I live in an area with plenty of predators and no one I know has or wants a LGD. During the day we shoot predators and we put our sheep in the barn at night. But what works for this area, must not work everywhere.

I live far from a highway, far from an airport, far from train tracks. A vehicle driving by in the night might warrent a look out the window to see who it is. This is a very quiet area. Sitting on the porch watching the stars pop out is best done without the neighbor's boom box rattling the windows, a pack of fourwheelers ripping by or the neighbors dog barking at the moon. I don't have those problems and would be slow to accept them.

If I ran my tractor around and around all night, every night, just to hear the exhaust, I wouldn't be too surprised to find my fuel as sweet as maple syrup and a clear view of the inside of my tires.

But, if occasionally plowing my field during the day is the same to you as a dog barking all night, every night to scare off predators, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I cant set here and not say this.I had a pyr and had the same problem.I had a neighbor that lived behind us and complained because she barked all night.
I tied her in the barn at night. It worked for a while.Then we moved her outside with a box of her own.This dog hated wooly worms and would bark until she stomped them to death.(It was really funny).she ended up jumping the fence and hung her self when it was serious enough she felt there was something she had to take care of.
I still kick myself for this.
I now have 4 Maremmas. The neighbors I have now love the dogs.They understand them after I explained the dogs behavior to them . My fence line boarders their yard by 20 foot from their house.Most of the time the dogs stay in the barn at night untill they hear something.I would lock them in the barn first before tying the dog.Please!

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Zone 6

We understand your point of view. You have explained it thoroughly and often. So does the OP obviously as she has taken the necessary steps to quiet the dog. She cares about her neighbors having the peace and quiet they wish for. So what do you care that she owns a lgd now?
No need for you to continue writing dissertations on the subject, it is tiring.