Road Rt of Ways Laws & Gates ??
 

When can one put up a Gate that blocks a road used by others? We share a dirt/gravel one lane road with 2 other families...at one place....3 others at one place in the road. We all "own" portions of the roads....flat out own it...or we all have Right of Ways over all portions that we do not own.

For safety reasons, and to keep out nuisance cars/trucks, I want to put a Gate over the road....at a place that I "own" the road, the posts would be totally on my land...but the Gate will block the road for 2 other land owners. They have Right of Ways over this area. We all share the upkeep of the road, although, truth be told, it is me and my family that keep it up and pay for the gravel too.

One owner, who only owns raw land but visits his land regularly, has agreed to have the Gate.

The 2nd Owner, who has a Vacation House and is here only a few times a year but who has a Care Taker who visits regularly, has not yet agreed and we have not asked them yet. They are a challenge to get along with - and hence we have not yet approached them about the Gate.

Can I put up a Gate and just give them a key and ask them to keep the Gate locked? Is it legal to put up a Gate if I give them a key?

Any suggestions appreciated. Any ideas about how to smooth it over would be appreciated too. Thank you.

If they have easements you probably can't put it up without everyone agreeing, but you need to check with an attorney in your area to find out exactly what your state and local laws are.

First you must know that most states have their own individual real property laws and I have no idea what NC law states. I live in Montana and have been "blessed" with the opportunity to watch a local pair of neighbors and their fight regarding property access, gates, road useage etc. It has been a very interesting time indeed.

The first man I will call Jim has owned property and house on the mountain since the mid 70's. Jim is 63 about 5 foot 8 or so and maybe 160 pounds.He retired and moved to the mountain for full time living with his wife just last June. Jims wife still goes to town each day for work.

The second man I will call Brian, purchased his property (had been left to habitat for humanity) about 3-4 years ago. Brian (about 45 years old and well over 6 foot, probably 230 pounds) and his wife moved to the property for full time living 2-3 years ago. Wife occassionally goes to town for work and Brian does not appear to have an "off the mountain" job situation.

Right from the get go these two men had problems with each other. Jim seemed to offer unasked for advise to Brian and off we went. Both men are stubborn, proud, egotistical etc. There may well be a substance dependence issue for one or both men- hard to say for sure. At any rate there was trouble right from the start. There is a "section road" running through the property of neighbor A, then continuing up hill to Brians place, through Brians place and up to Jims place where it dead ends. Being in Montana where permits and inspections and plot plans are just now becomming common place has added to this mess. There is an agreement between neighbor A and Jim for many many years to have a cable gate at the bottom of the hill on neighbor A's property. The gate was always kept locked unless Jim and family were up at their house. When Brian bought his property and moved his school bus type houses up there the gate wars began. One day the key was missing and the gate locked when folks visiting Jim wanted to leave- so they couldn't get out. Brian/Jim/neighobr A and visitors all denied taking the key which always hung on the tree.

These two fellas have gotten orders of protection against each other and have been to the local courthouse a number of times. Still the issue is not resolved. We did finally get rural 911 service up here and some city folks said we needed to name the roads for the system. Of course the road that Jim lives on ,the long driveway road for all three) ended up being named for him which really angered the Brian fella. The war continues however it has been decreed that the access road is a road and does have a permanant easement on the plot maps now. Apparently Montana is a fence out state so you must fence out your neighbors cows and sheep etc. Gates are allowed any place and all must have access through them. Either with individual keys or one available at the site. In Montana it is also the folks who use the easement roads for ingress etc who must maintain the road. And just as in your area no one reallys seems to do so except Jim and my own family. I continue to watch with interest as these two battle it out. I wonder what it will cost in the long run. sisterpine

Been a while since I was involved with ROW in NC. From my memory a deeded cart ROW can have a gate. Anything else would require a legal document signed by all to install a gate. Usually ROW's require a road maintenance agreement for any lender to get involved with the sale of a property containing a ROW. I would say an owner would be screwing themselves by agreeing to a nuisance gated ROW.

I lived in WNC with a property on a ROW. I will never again ever get involved with a property with a ROW.

If they fight it they will win. You are changing the "status quo" and unless they agree you have no legal right.

I have a road that crosses my property to a 400 acre lot in the back. I got sick of people "following the road to see where it goes" so I put up a cable across the road. The owner of the lot didn't like it but he doesn't own the road, he has a right of way. I can gate the road as long as I give him a key (which I did). You should be OK. He will probably not lock the gate, but as long as you check it from time to time that should not be a big deal. A private road sign might go along way toward minimizing unwanted traffic as well.:hobbyhors

meanwhile
I share the same state as yourself. Since I am a timber grower I have land spread over large areas and I have encountered the situation you are discussing. My position is not as a qualified legal person so accept it accordingly. There are two types of Right of Ways, one is deeded and the other is for access without deed. If it is deeded then you must leave it as is. On a deeded ROW in your case you get to pay the tax and others get to use the road and it must stay open. If the ROW, non deeded easement, is for access through land owned by you, but for others to get to their property, then you have some choices. One choice is you can relocate the road but still you must give them access. You can gate the road but you cannot lock the gate. You do not have to do maintenance to the road. Just remember this is a "good old boy" state and if you go in front of the judge he may not make his decision on the laws of the land.

Buy a gate that uses an electric remote opener and give the guy a remote, while telling him that his property will be safer from trespassers, and I'll bet he goes for it.

The existence of a gate does no necessarily equate with loss of easement (by the way, there's a difference between easement and right-of-way). For example, it's not unusual to have an unlocked a gate where there are common access rights for the purpose of keeping livestock in place. As long as everyone knows that they can still get through then I don't see a problem.

Ah, legal, deeded easements. Took one person to court that put up a "grudge gate" and almost took another to court - another property, another access - but she came around.

Here in Arizona, a person "owns" the land that another has a legal, deeded access over usually to get to their property or for utilities. This person put up a gate to annoy myself and another land owner. The only two families at the time needing to use the access. To make a long, ugly story short, a gate is OK if kept unlocked. Fire, ambulance and sheriff must be able to use access at any time.

Check your local county laws. They vary greatly from area to area.

Usually it takes 10 continuous years of nonuse to loose an easement.

I would suggest you check with a lawyer before you contact the other person. If he says it is fine, then you should check with the other person listing the benefits of having it gated and try to put it in a positive spin.

Around here, there are a lot of gated properties/roads. Usually each person has their own lock and the locks are daisy chained. The fire department has a set of locks that they add to these so that they can get in if necessary. Our neighbors gate has locks from the fire department, a few friends/family who can check on the property, as well as the game warden.

The property our church recently bought has two locks, one for the church and one for the fire department. Our insurance required it be locked since there is a small pond on it (that will be filled in when it is built on).
Dawn

When I was a firefighter we had a master key for the entire county, called bolt cutters. We just cut the chain and informed the sheriff by radio.

I believe that you will lose if you put a gate up without consent from all parties but that depends on your state laws. I would approach the other land owner in a fashion that makes it appeal to them such as "it will keep people off of your property". It might also be more appealing if you made it an electric gate with a punchpad and you financed the project so that gate is not a nuisance to them. Obviously this is expensive, last time I checked about $500 in addition to cost of gate.

I have a similar situation on my road, all of the land owners have agreed to a gate to keep out trespassers. The most supportive people here are those who do not live on their land. Maybe you will be surprised.

Thank you everyone -- we are going to put up the Gate but not put a lock on it at first, we did put up some signs this weekend to try and keep the traffic out........then we will ask them if we can put a Lock on the gate.....and hope they say OK...

Thank you for the suggestions and input --

Don't put up the gate without permission, or talking to a NC lawyer.

Getting legal information over the Internet is dumb. Go and see a lawyer before anything else. I am not a lawyer but I have enough sense to go and see one before I do something like putting up a gate on a road. Sorry if that seems harsh but the world is harsh if you do something without any legal backing.

No one here is giving legal advice. We can't, since the OP never mentioned where the easment rights came from, nor did he provide any particular language used in the creation of those rights. I'm not seeing anything here except general advice about what is and is not done.

I always recommend that people do their own research and familiarize themselves with the statutes of their respective states. In specialized circumstances a lawyer's advice may become necessary, and I do that myself from time to time. But I wouldn't see a lawyer in this situation. It's time for him to read and understand the law himself.

I would suggest working with all parties concerned. Get an agreement, give a key.

Just a little story....Here in Idaho (North Idaho to be more specific - and talk about independent minded stubborn folks!) two neighbors had a disagreement about this very thing. One wanted to put up a gate, the other didn't want it (he would have to get out and unlock gate, open gate, drive thru and reclose gate). they went to court about it. First fellow had a legal right to the gate and the judge ruled in his favor. Next day the prevailing party started planting a fence/gate post. The losing party shot and killed him.

Now, the losing party is in jail for life and all.....BUT!!! Just sayin'....


oh and this happened about 4 years ago.

That is what I said but since he got all the information here he should be alright as long as as the other people agree but if not then he will be in trouble but I agree he should not see a lawyer at all just save the comments here and show them to the judge.

We have a deal past me where neighbor put up a Gate thing is its on a hill no place to turn around the Turn around is on past the Gate on another persons property.

I know this isn't Legal and dangerous but its not my worry.

big rockpile

This is why my county banned folks from building unless there is a legal right of way to the property. They got _sick_ of dealing with these sorts of issues. Shared driveways are a pain.

I'd sure not like openning & closing a gate every time I come & go to my property. And what about having friends over?

The thing you'll have to find out is what type of easement/ right of way/ shared arrangement is established, how your local county & state view such things.

Then risk making enemies of the neighbors.

Wouldn't seem worth it to me - unless you are fencing in pasture on your property with livestock needing the fencing or some such.

But, a fence on a driveway - to me that was always an invitation to the wrong kind of people that something worthwhile & alone is lurking back behind it someplace - worth checking out if I were the wrong kind of person.....

--->Paul

Rose, in answer to your question, I would love it if I owned a property with a private road that is accessed by several neighboring land owners, if we could split the cost and install a common gate across our road.

And you'd be similarly delighted if they erected said gate without your permission? And if your guests (or pick-your-own customers) could not access the property without someone going down to the end of the road to let them in? I'm skeptical.

Thank you everyone -- all are very good points to consider and I appreciate all the ideas and comments.

I did not give all the facts in the first post since it would have been way too long....but to add some to it: I am the only one who uses the road daily. The other two owners are only out here...one about 6 times a year...and the other "willy-nilly" since he does not even have a house yet. We all have our own Gates to block our own Main Drives to each house.....but the "Road" in...which we all share....is about 1.5 mile long....and that is the road I want to Gate. I am back here 3 to 4 nights are week with only an 11 year old child with me. I have guns but it would be better if I can block access way before they ever reached my main driveway.

As for having "company" over......no one back here has guests or family that just show up. The Property Owners I have not asked yet about the Gate always give people the key to their Main Gate. That Gate is about 3 miles from their house...so a Gate to them would not be a new thing. It would mean a 2nd Gate to unlock but it would also mean trespassers would not be able to reach their Gate either.....

In any case........sorry this is so long. It has helped me to hear from everyone and to be able to think this though more. Since one Property Owner has agreed to the Gate, we are going to put it up and leave it un-locked for now. My husband plans to let the 3rd Owners know of the traffic and troubles and ask them please to allow the Gate to be locked. He is also going to ask a Lawyer about it too. In the meantime, to soften the request, we have weed whacked, brush cleared and clean up all along an area of the road where the Gate would be so that it looks nicer and safe....and we put up a good outside flood light too........since it is in deep woods.

Thanks again -- it really helps to brainstorm and trouble-shoot issues. Thank you.

In the last month we have had about 7 sets of suspicious people back here....all the way down the 1.5 mile driveway...even though a sign out on the Main Road says "private"...and another says "private road"...and yet another "no tresspass" etc. One set of men arrived here on my door step (I had left my Main Gate open to let people at my Cabin into the main area)......at 6 pm at night. Two men asked me to "come see" what they had in the back of their truck. They persisted and kept telling me they had "meat" in the truck.....I finally told them I was going to shoot them if they did not leave and I would shoot them if they came back. (There was no point in calling Police since it would take them 45 mins. to get here).

Turner Hill: I just saw your last post. And, there are no guests or visitors who come back here without someone knowing it and giving them a key to at least one Gate. We are all already locked in and the new Gate would just be on the Main road in. The 3rd owners we will be asking already have a locked Gate that is 3 miles from their Main House and they already have to drive down to meet guest or give them a key ahead of time.

This new Gate will mean one more key.....unless each property owners chooses to use their own Lock linked into the main Chain.

Thank you everyone

My advice is still to either ask permission or consult a lawyer BEFORE you put up the gate. If the gate is illegal and the troublesome owner objects, it will be coming down.

I suspect that's the worst that could happen; someone asking the court for a cease & desist order, demanding that the gate come down. But that's not going to happen if everyone with rights to pass that road knows about it.

Now if the easement was also dedicated the benefit of the public then he'll have problems, since the whole world has the right to pass that road. We still haven't see the language of the easement, so we don't know.

One road here there is a reflective 'private road' sticker put onto the township road sign.

I find that just real fiunny.

I'd like it if the township stopped plowing the snow on it - see how well those few folk like their 'private road' then. :) As if you can declaire a township road a 'private' road and keep others off! I've always felt like driving up & down it just to thumb my nose at people so self-absorbed as to claim a public road is 'private'.

Your problem will come depending on how this road is designated. It sounds like one of the fellas is interested in putting up a house back there some day.

If so, I think he would be _very_ interested in keeping the road open & passable for himself, and for the construction crews, and for friends & relatives that want to visit him whenever he does put up his new dwelling. If he does.

If I were in his shoes, I'd be real concerned about how some landowner is putting up a gate to keep me out & try to take over access to my property......


I understand you have other issues you are trying to deal with, and not trying to keep the new neighbor out.

But be real careful in how you approach this - do it wrong & you could set up all sorts of warning bells in his head - unintended, but they could easily be there.

Things are done differently 'here' so anyone trying such a thing 'here' would on the 'not-neighborly' list & watched carefully. That is a 'here' thing and perhaps what you are doing is common 'there'.

I appreciate your tone with all of this, and I do understand the issues you are trying to deal with.

Myself, personally, I would fight a stupid gate tooth & nail & not like the person suggesting such.

Again, just giving perspective, and from 'here'. I wish you luck & hope your plans work out for you as you want.

If everyone agrees to the extra gate, then it doesn't really matter what is legal - it'll work out.

For future peace of mind, you might want to figure out the legal staus of this road, and how it will be treated legally in the future - who owns what, who can control what. Someday, someone will want to change your neighborhood, and that road will become a key piece of the deal......

--->Paul

Lets see....."He" (Meanwhile) is a "She". The road is a private road, we all own portions of it and / or have Rt of Ways over it. It is not public at all, and no one, but Property Owners (or their Guests or workers) has rights to be on the road.

The man who only owns land...and one day plans to build, has already given permission for the Gate.

The place I selected to actually hang the new Gate is totally on my land....over which the other 2 Owners have Rt. of Way to pass to their land. So....I would not be setting a Gate on anyone else's land...and not on public land either........we are all supposed to work together to upkeep the road.....but I am the only one who really does so.

Rose - good idea about the Solar Motion light. There is not enough sun light down there for those. We use them at the Barn and up near the house though and they work good.

All good points and things to think about as we decide how to deal with the trespassers and other dangers. A new Gate to have to deal with would be an annoyance if someone had to deal with it every day....but since I am the only one who is here every day......and I am the one in danger.....and my children.....then I hope the Gate will be accepted to help protect everyone and their properties.

Thanks again for all the points and ideas to think about.

places where I have seen gates and chains, they use short pieces of chain (some just a few links long)
every one on the route has there own pad lock and they are then responsible for the key them selfs,

I have seen up to 20 locks on one gate,

Farminghandyman: That is the way we think this Gate might work. There would be four locks on it, one for each of the Property Owners and one for Duke Power. Then, we would just have to deal with one key each........but....we could have the one lock and one key on it too. I suppose each Property Owner can decide what they want to deal with in the way of Keys.

Wow - 20 locks would be amazing to see....and heavy too!

20 keys for one lock would be a lot lighter.

I would try an unlocked gate and a no trespassing sign for awhile. People are reluctant to go through a closed gate, particularly if they are up to no good.

If they provided me with a key for access, yes. And I would hope that I would have good enough communication wit my neighbors in advance that this would be discussed in advance, and I could contribute financially toward the purchase and upkeep. In the real world, neighborly neighbors do that sort of thing.

Well, we have to deal with the realities of where we live. My ranch is at the end of a public road that others are trying to claim as a private road. The only gate is mine, and when I open for You pick, I have my gate open, and appropriate signs up

The OP is about a private road with several private properties that access it, and are looking at putting up a gate. There is one neighbor they haven't contacted yet, and don't get along with htat has not given consent, (or even been given notice) that there is thought of putting up a gate.

This is an instance that regardless of other disagreements, both parties would benefit from having a gate there. The OP needs to contact them and discuss it. Just for legalities, ought to have the neighbors both sign something approving the gate.

Also, your meter readers (gas, water. electric) have to have access too.

In my case, that means that there is a chain on the gate with our lock, the electric company lock, phone company lock and Forest Service lock, all linked into each other so that when one comes in, they unlock their lock, enter the property and when they leave, they are supposed to link their lock back into the same locks they were linked through when they got there.

The electric company is an equal opportunity employer, and hires every village idiot they can find (and there are so many in California!) to be meter readers. They unlock their padlock, and when they leave they pull the chain tight as they can and hook their lock through a chain link and leave everybody else's lock dangling at the end of the chain useless. Then, the village idiot/meter reader is the only one with access to your property.

Someone here at HT suggested that we cut our chain half way around, and put the electric company's padlock there! This worked!

Common Tater -- the electric company here does that too. They will cut the chain and insert their own lock into the chain.

We are going to try to talk with them but we are also putting up the gate with No lock for a while too. There will be a 2nd Gate that blocks another small section of road that it totally my land and and we have hung some fierce signs on it. The property owner who has already agreed, also bought some signs and set out on the main road in to see if that will help.

Thanks again everyone --

Update on Gates
 

Hello everyone. Update about the Gates: We did get an opinion from a Property Lawyer since there both easements and right-of-ways over the whole road. According to him, on our road it is an "all or nothing" - every property owner must agree to have a Gate or there can be no gate. We could not put up and lock the gate unless Owner #3 agreed, even tho Owners #1 and #2 did want the Gate.

After another week of intruders.......one whom we found at our driveway Gate questioning two of our children about Who-What-Where...and so forth (yes the boys did not answer and called my Husband to deal with the man)...and after we found cigarette butts all over the ground near a Lower property Gate.....my Husband did talk to the Owner #3 who have reluctantly agreed to a Gate but no lock.

So - we do have a Gate up and we close it with a wire loop. We hope that will keep the Intruders further up the main road in and away from our 4 Gates and the Gates of Owners # 2 and #3.

Thank you again for all the input and discussions. Have a good week and be sure to close your Gates!