is this animal cruelty?

Thanks all.

Back when I was a little kid, a whole lot of farmers brought calves to the sale barn in a car trunk or back seat, & buyers took them home again in a car trunk. This was short 20 mile or so distances, and guess no one ever gave it any thought, never saw any harm done to the critters - sellers wanted them to look good, buyers just invested in them so wanted good healthy animals when they got them home. Not sure I understand the issue of trunk transport in such a case. Restrained in a truck or restrained in a trunk - I'm not sure I totally understand the difference depending on length of trip & other variables.

I agree there could be more to this particular story, and leaving the goat in for the whole repair process does seem to be an issue for me too - wasn't there so don't know the particulars.

I just wasn't sure if I understood this story, and 'the media' is so out of touch with farming & aminal husbandry that I dodn't think they could explain the issue with any sense.

I wonder where society is heading.

--->Paul

Maybe i'm missing the point, but I have the image of my old hatchback in my head. How the heck does a calf or a goat fit into a car trunk? I can see the back of a truck or SUV, because then it would be able to stand up, but a car would be too cramped the way I see it! Maybe someone can explain the process. I transport my dogs in the back of the truck, but to get them in the back of a car isn't doable...

Back when I was a kid, I guess an Impala or New Yorker that had the life beat out of it by the first owner got bought by a farmer to be the 'farm runner' car. You could about fit a full sized matress in the trunk of one of those.

A 3 day old calf is not likely going to enjoy trying to stand in a moving truck bed all by itself - to me _that_ is terribly cruel to make it fly around & fall over & flop here & there! Legs tied & laying down in a trunk would seem better for the critter to me for certain short travels of newborn long-legged animals?

Not trying to be disagreeable, just trying to understand old vs new thoughts.

--->Paul

To me the question is how terrifying is it for an animal to be immobilized, put into pitch blackness and subjected to engine noise for over several minutes? Also if in the summer or if with other animals I'm sure it would get stifling hot and suffocating. Not hard for me to imagine that many animals would be absolutely petrified with the unfamiliar situation. Others might be just befuzzled instead of scared, like a trusting dog for instance.

I do think cruelty does not just apply to an animal's physical well-being, but that they should be spared unnecessary trauma. That's one of the things I like about HT - there's threads upon threads started by people concerned about slaughtering their animals with the least trauma possible.

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Wise enough to know I'll never be wise enough to know it all

The good Lord gave us dominion over all animals. As long as an animal doesn't suffer any unneccasary pain in the handling/ transporting of the beast, than I personally don't see any harm.
Like another poster, I have had coonhounds willingly jump into a trunk to be transported to the wood patch.
This is beginning to turn into a PETA post in my opinion.

Cruel, not really, but good practice, no.

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We will meet in the golden city, called the New Jerusalem,
All our pain and all our tears will be no more.....

Perfectly fine, as long as we're talking about an airplane. Then you can do it for hours, not minutes. And as an added bonus, you can freeze the animals and depressurize them. For added fun, you get to toss them around with the loading equipment.

By definition and nature, homesteaders and preppers
are an independent bunch. Not taking lightly to others
poking their noses into uor buisness. A great many
things we take for the norm are wonderer at, or frowned
upon by outsiders. It seems apropriate that if one
wishes to be left alone, then just maybe we ought be
slow to judge others.

carbon monoxide !!

carbon monoxide !!
.
Ah, yes! A painless way to go.
I should be so lucky, in 70 or80 years!

I am an animal lover, and don't think it was actually cruel, stupid maybe. Don't have a problem with the paint or shave..that for sure didn't hurt the animal (animal, livestock being the key word here). If it was a hot day, the trunk part could be considered cruel and I wouldn't do that.

I think there is an element of emotional reaction here. trunks are associated with suffocating children, transporting murder victims etc...transporting animals is traumatic for them period. it seems to me the trunk of a car would be more comfortable then a trailer. trailers are bouncy, noisy, windy have hard floors. most animals are much better off encouraged to lay down whilst being transported by utilizing confinement and darkness. if this were a dark confined crate would everyone be upset? creating a sense of darkness and restricting vision is a time tested way of decreasing the stress of animal in a stressful situation. assuming that the temps are ok and the car isn't a monoxide hazard then I don't see how it is so much worse then any other way of transporting them (by the way if carbon monoxide is getting in your trunk you probalby shouldn't be driving the car. there isnt much between the cab and the trunk)

I am not fond of tying. I have sold goats that left with their legs tied in cars/trucks and I cringed the whole time. yet. across the world small animals are tied for transport. thrashing, kicking trying to stand up and run around result in injury and more trauma. they can't anticpate the movement of vehicles unless they are trailered often.

not the best way of moving them but I am not so sure it is way up on the cruelty scale.

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A mystery is not an explanation..... on the contrary....no sooner is a myth forged than, in order to stand it needs another myth to support it.

Cruel.

Paint an animal some stupid team color and carve a number into it's hair, then cram it into the trunk of a car. No brainer - literally.

Every animal deserves to be treated humanely and with dignity - even if you are preparing to cut it's throat.

Well said plowjockey. I totally agree.

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http://hickahala.blogspot.com/

deleted by mike

As for the carbon monoxide poisoning thing, the trunk is not sealed off from the passenger compartment but it is sealed off from the outside. If there was enough CO buildup in the trunk to kill a goat there would be enough leaking into the passenger compartment to make you sick at the least.

If the car sat idling for a while the CO could build up enough to be dangerous. Carbon monoxide cannot accumulate in the trunk of a moving vehicle.

Some folks idea of "cruelty" really scares me.

Other than the risk of carbon monoxide, I don't know that it is any worse than keeping the goat in the back seat. Is he more scared in the dark or light with the people and being able to see things moving by quickly. I know quite a few people who use dog trailers or boxes. They aren't real roomy, but most dogs think of these little spaces as their homes if they are on the road quite a bit. I've hauled sheep in dog cages and in the back of my hatchback, probably not much difference in room there either.
Compare that to the conditions on a big livestock truck loaded full traveling for hours.

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Claycreekfarm.info

When I was very young, my parents took me to visit some friends in another state (I won't say which one!) Being very, very far out from a main town, our friends bartered with neighbors for what they couldn't grow or make themselves. My mom was invited to come along on a bartering trip. The friend put a small pig in a burlap bag, threw a couple of ducks in the hatchback of a Pinto(car) and I believe put a couple of rabbits on the floor of the back seat. Add two adults and I dont' know how many kids and this was one exciting trip, esp. when the pig escaped from his bag! Now, don't anyone harrass me about this, I was only 7 or so and this was how things were done in that area. My mom still avoids small cars and pigs to this day.

Just good, clean fun?

"Under the lid they found the goat's feet tied together. He was painted purple and gold. On each of the goat's sides was a shaved Brett Favre number four.

In statement police said the goat had been in the trunk about an hour

Police say the one-year-old goat was scared and lethargic when it was removed from the trunk."