Quiet LGD - do they exist???

on that small of an area I would think the barking of the dogs you already have as well as the fact that you probably frequent all of the property is enough of a detterent to small predators and even larger ones for the most part.

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A mystery is not an explanation..... on the contrary....no sooner is a myth forged than, in order to stand it needs another myth to support it.

I agree. We lived with livestock, poultry, etc for years *on a small acreage* with just our outside dogs and were fine. Now that my goats roam acres and acres of brush...I need LGDs. But the LGDs are also not happy unless they are roaming with the goats. They do not want to stay in small pens.

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Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

Some of the unique things about LGds are their range, size and independence. None of which seems to fit your particular needs.

You might be better off finding a breed known for its personal property protection. A GSD or Belgian breed might work with proper bloodlines, training, imprinting, etc.

Otherwise, I think this comes down to the right DOG situation, and not the right BREED. An individual dog of nearly any breed could suit yours needs, quite possibly even one of your Mini Bull Terriers! If they're as tenacious as other terriers I know, they might fit the bill. Maybe an Airedale....?

Regardless, though, a bored dog will be a barking/bad dog as Im sure you know. I dont think the space you have available will be able to keep any working dog happy without additional stimulation, and might consider changing your perception of this dog as being strictly livestock before you get it, as it WILL require more interaction to keep all involved happy.

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Rachel Haiku Heritage City Farm

Randy wrote: "Yes and no. People have been using dogs to guard their animals for many
many years. Thousands of years. That was 1 of the main reasons that
dogs were bred from wolves, etc. Working dogs.

Dog may bark from boredom but most LGD's don't do that. Part of their
guarding is barking. It's warning predators that it's there and to stay out.

Will a fence keep all predators out ? Not a chance in hell. Our farm
fencing is great. 6 strands electric with barbed in between the electric.
We keep the voltage above 7000 at all times. Usually hotter depending on
wet things are.

That keeps predators from climbing the fence. It doesn't keep predators
from jumping the fence, digging way under, etc.

Do my dogs bark all night ? Some nights 1 or 2 will bark almost all night.
But I know that there is a reason other then boredom. We have a whole
lot of predators ranging from bobcats, mountain lions, coyotes, wolves,
bears and wild dogs. Wild pigs are also in the area. The LGD's have saved
our butts and livestocks butts on multiple occasions and I don't know how
we got along without them before. I know we couldn't raise goats or llamas
here without the dogs helping out.

But all that being said. We only have 1 neighbor that is within hearing
range. He's on his way back to prision soon. "

You are correct, people have been using LGD for thousands of years. I am correct, people have gotten along without them.
You admit that some nights one or two will bark all night. Wow, if that isn't a neighborhood problem, I don't know what is. Just because the dog's owner believes that the endless barking is providing an important role in driving off unseen preditors, I doubt few neighbors will be understanding.
I take a strong stand against barking dogs because of actual experiences. Calling the cops is often the first step. Then there are verbal confrontations. In most areas, push comes to shove. From here it can play out in several ways, but the end result is your dog is found dead. That isn't fair to the dog.
If you have little show dogs that go in at night, 1/2 acre isn't a problem. If you have a 80 pound LGD roaming your 20,000 square feet of yard, barking every time he thinks he heard something, you have invited a nusence.
The fact that no one can hear it is a big difference. I know some fruit growers that protect their cherries with a propane powered cannon. Every few minutes it ignites and makes a loud blast. Scares the birds away. Totally unsuited in a subdivision.
You didn't say where you live. Sounds like a better place for a wild game shoot than milk goats. Sometime we have to adapt to the environment.

Close the door to the hen house. Close the goats in the barn. Set a conabear trap where a preditor can crawl into it.
I don't think a wolf, coyote or bobcat is going to jump your 5 foot fence. Maybe. But not into a 150 foot square paddock occupied by humans.

But back to the topic. Are there LGD that don't bark a lot? I have seen turkeys trained to pull a wagon and moose broke to ride. So, I guess there are LGD that are fairly quiet at times. How many people are good at training dogs? No many. If you are willing to devote your life to proper training a LGD, maybe it would work.

Motion sensors with an in-house alarm would warn you. Sure, there are likely to be many false alarms, but there are with the LGD too.

I think good housing and pens plus a couple of box traps would be a better use of money then an LGD in your situation.

This is totally taboo, but taking a second look at the size and variety of predators you are concerned about, I would recommend a dog-safe hen house and a small/medium hunting dog (Terrier, Feist) that's bred to take out those types of varmint. If barking becomes an issue debarking is a last resort, but better than losing all your livestock or getting rid of the dog.

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Rachel Haiku Heritage City Farm

I had a minibull who would have fit that bill, unfortunately she passed away earlier this year

The hard thing with terriers is that they dig...a lot! Unless I pour a concrete floor in the barn, I would never be able to keep it from digging under and in. My dogs eye the chickens with great delight, waiting for the day one is stupid enough to come onto "their" side of the yard. One of my males would gleefully take on my goats:1pig:

FWIW, my next-door neighbor has chickens that he keeps in chicken tractors (mine free range in the pasture), and he has had all sorts of varmin rip his tractors open and eat his chicks - hence my list in my original post. He has the same fencing I do - the back of everyone's property on this side of the street has a 6-foot high chain link fence because of the water rights behind us, and my neighbors and I have 6-foot vinyl privacy fencing around the other 3 sides of our yards. So yes, preditors can and will scale my fence and eat my livestock

I'm pretty convinced at this point that a LGD is not an option. Any barking carries for long distances out here, so nothing more than an occasional warning bark would be tolerable. I don't want to start a war with my neighbors

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Miniature Bull Terriers
www.PatronusMiniBulls.com
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Have you looked into an English shepherd/famcollie? They are protective, and generally are intended to be small homestead dogs. www.englishshepherd.org and www.farmcollie.org will have info. They do herd, but are not obsessive about it like border collies. Most are also glad to kill annoying small critters, from mice to possums.

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Goat's Milk Soap, Lip Balm & Gardener's Hand Balm
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