Otter has a problem...

It is a mobile home 14X70.
And I agree.. horrible advice

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^^^I've never been run out of my home. What did the cops do for her? Telling her to call the police was the bad advice. By the time he gets done she will be out lots of $ and her place will probably be thrashed.

My MIL evicted somebody once.

She went to a lawyer, who filled out a form. To be posted on the door. She said that the sherrif would not remove the person until they had time: it might take 2 days and it might take 2 months.

As it turned out, the person did leave/

In order for a contract to be considered legal, it needs a date, terms/conditions (in this case amount agreed, paid in full or paid over time and if so the consequences of default), if handwritten, both parties should inital ahead of first paragraph and at the end of last word on each page (this intends to show the document has been read and that no additional words/clauses if the initials are in place). A legal and binding contract needs a witness and a friend or family member of either party is not acceptable and any contract challenged in court will likely not pass the smell test. It's best to have documents witnessed by a Notary Public or Commissioner for Oaths.

I would think that the only thing the email might prove is that at one point in time, he declared his interest in purchasing the trailer, but nothing more.

Otter should consider weighing her options carefully but I would think that she could take a proactive approach and figure out a reasonable amount of rentals for the trailer and initiate a small claims lawsuit before he starts litigating and making her life miserable. If she's lucky, he'll vanish rather than face being forced to pay her back rent. If she's not that lucky, at least she'll have something to counter if he sues for repairs. If she chooses not to sue for rentals, she can still counter his lawsuit by requiring him to prove where she gave consent for modifications/changes to the trailer. Without a rental lease or a purchase agreement, his work could be considered unauthorized and therefore nothing more than a gift or vandalism - depending on the quality of workmanship.

Eviction is only necessary to get rid of a renter. This guy has never had a right to be there. He is a trespasser or squatter, and the cops canremove him without further ado.

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I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam.

Popeye

Hey Otter, Read this piece about squatting, and get him out of there before 30 days! http://money.howstuffworks.com/squatting.htm

__________________
I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam.

Popeye

My sister had a similar problem. She had a job offer about 3 hours away from here. It was the job she wanted all her life so she took it. She made an agreement with her boyfriend so he could stay at her place and pay rent to her. He never paid her a penny. She sent him certified letters telling him to go but he did not.

She got sick and had to leave her dream job. My brothers and I figured that she needed a place to stay. We rented a Uhaul truck and showed up early on a Sunday morning. We knocked on the door and told her boyfriend that he needed to start wrapping up anything he didn't want broken because he was moving RIGHT THEN. He didn't put up much of a fight...he would have lost. We loaded him up and moved his belongings to a place he decided upon. We even helped him move in to the new place.

When we left I mentioned to him that our sister means the world to us and we'd hate for the four of us to come back out to "have a talk" with him. I also let him know that I loaned her one of my guns. He asked me which gun I left with her and I told him that if he found out, he'd be on the recieving end of it.

What works for one situation definately does not work for others. When your rights gets stomped on, sometimes you need to stomp back.

Why that is just terrible advice. Who cares how effective it may have been. You could have gotten in a wee bit of trouble. Besides, it is terrible to trample on that poor guy like that. If you haven't guessed, I am being facetious.

i like how you think

Otter, please read the link in my post, #47. Apparently squatters are receiving legal advice to set up housekeeping and take this from being a criminal offense to a civil one, which is probably why the police refused to get involved.

From the article "The key to squatting successfully lies in the tenant's rights. States grant rights to people who live in a home but do not own it. This protects tenants from being kicked out without notice from a landlord. In most states, tenant rights are extended to anyone living in a home for period of time -- usually 30 days. Squatters exploit these rights to stay in a home as long as possible. By setting up housekeeping, like making repairs, adding some curtains, and settling into the home in a generally respectable manner, the appearance of tenants' rights can be established. "

This is why you need to get him out IMMEDIATELY!

__________________
I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam.

Popeye

Listen to common tater if he has been there long enough to become a squatter you have problems.

Since they want to keep the trailor the old lightning strike out of the blue won't work either.

I'm not a lawyer (I know there are a few on this site, though...)... I seriously doubt that an email constitutes a binding contract. Pretty much every legal doc I've ever signed, especially concerning real property, is done in person, in front of a notary public.

Like others have mentioned, I'd disconnect the trailer from utilities, and move it... with him in it or out of it. I'd make double dog sure I had my insurance on it current. If he's in it, make it so he enjoys the ride. Carry him over a few mountain passes... down here we'd probably have some good ole boys waiting in the deep deep woods... and it'd be dark dark dark... and some finely chosen lines from the classic movie 'Deliverance'.

=======================

Seriously though (as if I wasn't serious beforehand!), if Otter is many many miles away, and the sis is local, she may have insinuated that she owns the place.

Sometimes the law is your friend. Sometimes a 12 gauge shotgun is even a better friend. Unfortunately, it's hard to intimidate people in another state with Crazy Psycho Guy Syndrome.

It this guy even remotely has 'renter' status, a lot of jurisdictions will allow the leeches to stay put for months at a time. In Texas, trespassers can be shot, if entering a domicile... the Castle Law. Course, it'd be helpful to actually be living or apparently living in said trailer, when the doofus returned home...

__________________
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Go to the well, disconnect the pump and take it with you. If possible pull the main fuse, disconnect the sewer pipe and cap it. Call the local health inspector, show ownership and agree that the home needs to be condemed. It's worked for me in the past. When they leave, replace above items and have the free re-inspection with the certificate of occupancy.

In my neck of the woods it also has to be signed in black ink! not blue or red or any color it must be black other wise it is not legaly signed no matter how many Notary Publics you sign in front of !

This is long, but IMHO, worth the read...

In defense of the police...

Imagine you are a police officer and you suddenly get a phone call from someone who says they own a trailer in which someone is living without their permission.

You personally speak to this person and they tell you the whole story including how the sister gave the guy the key and the guy has done work on the place.

The person "sounds" credible, but you keep in the back of your mind that right then and there you have no way of verifying that the person you are talking to is who they say they are and/or that they really own the trailer.

The caller can't show you any identification or proof of ownership over the phone. Even if they fax something to you, you still can't verify it's that person who faxed it.

But, being a conscientious officer, you go the extra mile and try to have another officer in the jurisdiction where the owner lives physically meet the person and confirm their identity via a state-issued identification card or driver license and also check the proof of ownership.

The officer you contact in the other jurisdiction isn't so sure he/she wants to get involved in what sounds to him/her like a civil matter, besides he's busy with his own stuff, but out of professional courtesy, the officer does it anyway and lo and behold actually confirms everything.

The officer even gets to see the email of the original offer. But, of course, as an experience officer you realize there could be other emails where the owner reconsidered the offer and agreed to sell or rent the trailer or let the person live there rent-free. But nobody would ever withhold important information like that, if it existed, would they?

Or they could have a verbal agreement which is perfectly acceptable, as long as nobody challenges it in court at which time they are almost impossible to prove without credible witnesses. You are not a judge so who are you to say a verbal agreement is valid or not?

At this point I have to interject that after 18 years in law enforcement the above scenario is a very unlikely. People rarely have their ducks in order and carry around proof of ownership of something. Many times these situations erupt at night or on weekends when all offices are closed. Some people don't even carry state-issued identification nor are they required to by law.

But, for the sake of argument...

Congratulations! You've just spent an hour clearing the first hurdle.

Keep in mind, you have have other calls pending; people who believe their problem is the most serious and pressing problem anyone has ever experienced in the history of mankind.

Of course, while you are dealing with this, it's likely you'll have to drop it at some point to deal with something legitimately more serious and then come back to this later; maybe after the involved parties have gone to bed or to work or to the gym or to get a bite to eat or to...

So, now you drive over to the trailer and nobody is home. Do you take the time to check back later? If so, how many times? Do you leave a business card? Do you really expect a supposedly less-than-stellar citizen to call you in response to your business card?

But, as luck would have it, in our little story, the guy is actually there.

You can see he is obviously living there. He has a couple POS vehicles parked in front of the place and they are actually in his name! He also has a motorcycle, also in his name, that is laying in pieces on the un-mowed yard and appears to have been in this state for months based on grass growing through the spokes of the wheels, the piles of dried leaves all over it, and the cobwebs everywhere.

So, you properly identify him as the guy the owner is talking about. He has no wants or warrants and is cooperative and friendly. Of course if he is wanted, your problems are over. You just arrest him, lock the doors and take him to jail. But that would be too easy.

You interview him and he tells you his side of things, like maybe that he is buying or renting the trailer and even mentions the owner by name numerous times, so you know he isn't just some stranger who saw a vacant trailer and decided to just move in.

Maybe he shows you entries in his check register where he has paid money to the owner. They could be fake entries, but they could be real, too. Or maybe he pays her cash, because he doesn't have a checking account. He mentions he knows it's stupid to send money through the mail but he hates paying for money orders. Stupidity and trying to save some dough doesn't make you a criminal.

You ask for receipts and he says he keeps asking for them, but the owner never sends them.

Speaking of things being sent, he shows you mail in his name at the address of the trailer. Some of it might even be from utility companies. You can see some of the mail dates back weeks or months. You think to yourself, "Why is this an issue all of a sudden, if the guy has lived here that long?"

Maybe he doesn't have the utilities in his name yet. Or he has bad credit and couldn't get them into his name right away. You think to yourself, "If the guy is here illegally and the owner knows this, why didn't she shut off all the utilities?"

You ask about canceled checks, but remember he doesn't have an account. Even if he did most banks don't even send canceled checks to you anymore without a fee. You can sometimes print them from the bank's website, but he doesn't have a computer. You think you can just call a bank anytime and have them see if there are any canceled checks endorsed by the owner? Do banks actually still have human beings answer phones?

So much for asking for email correspondence, he doesn't have a computer and uses the one at the library. They charge him if he prints out stuff and he didn't want to spend the money, because he trusted the owner to keep her word. Again, is it criminal to trust someone to do what they said they would do? Is it criminal to save money? No.

He's proud of the work he has done on the place and you can see tools and supplies laying around. He says this is part of the deal he has with the owner. You can see it's extensive work; flooring, drywall, etc. Or you ask about the work the owner claimed he had told her he had done on the place. He tells you when he moved in the place was a pig-sty and while it may not look good now, it's cleaner than it was. He must have spent three days hauling stuff to the dump. He says, "Do you know what gasoline costs these days? Now the owner is refusing to reimburse me."

Oh, don't forget, he also shows you the key and also all his stuff that appears to be man-stuff; aftershave, an electric razor, jock itch cream, flannel shirts, stinky tennis shoes, Star Wars sheets, etc., etc., etc. You also notice that there are beer cans and Playboy magazines laying around. You think yourself, "Yes, this appears to be a man-cave all right."

The place is full of stuff; on tables, in closets, in drawers. It's obvious he isn't just camping out on the couch next to his duffel bag. He's got a case of beer next to the broom between the wall and the fridge.

You also get to meet the owner's sister and she tells you that she gave him the key to the place on the owner's okay. She also tells you her sister, the owner, can be forgetful sometimes or maybe had a falling out with the guy and is just trying to get him in trouble because the two of them are dating.

Or the sister denies giving the guy the key. Who do you believe now, the sister or the owner? Do you believe the guy who also tells you the sister gave him the key? Maybe the sister has reasons for laying low. The guy threatened her before you got there or she just wants to answer your questions as briefly as possible and book, since she remembered she might not have paid that last traffic ticket she got.

Remember the owner is another state, so you don't get to double check facts as they come up during your investigation, since your department doesn't issue a cell phone and you certainly don't make enough to use the minutes on your personal phone especially for something like this.

Even if you could be in constant phone contact with the owner, you can't see the owner's body language as you speak or see how the guy and the sister react to the owner's argument.

You begin to think, "If this place is so important to the owner, why isn't they she here in person to deal with this matter?" The guy and the sister are here making their case.

You ask the guy if he has a written contract. He does (hooray!)...at his parents' house in Idaho from where he moved when he came here. Of course the parents are snowbirds; they live in Idaho during the summer and
in Arizona during the winter. Even if he could track them down, they wouldn't be able to find it in the elderly state they are in. Besides, it's packed in a box in their garage...in the rafters. Or, no they just have a verbal argument. The sister backs this up.

So, you go next door and speak to a neighbor. He doesn't want to get involved and won't tell you a thing. Or he tells you he doesn't know the guy because the guy has only lived there a short time. Or he tells you the guy has lived there for weeks or months and is generally quiet and friendly.

And did I mention, it's winter and the temps are going to be in the teens that night.

Okay, now you have to make a decision right now. People are going to be affected by your decision.

So, you think, "Hey the owner says he doesn't live here and the guy has no contract, so screw him!" You issue a stern command, "Start packing buddy, you're out of here!"

So now do you wait there for him to get all his stuff out? What do you let him take? Maybe the owner still has personal property inside. How do you prove ownership of a T.V., microwave, couches, etc., etc.? Don't think for a minute that the owner won't try to hold the officer responsible for "allowing" the guy to take some of her stuff.

If you don't wait around what do you think the chances are that he will NOT damage the trailer out of his frustration and anger? If he does and there is nobody there to see it, good luck on ever proving he did the damage. "But officer, when I left the place was clean and all the windows were intact. How can I control what someone else does after I am gone?"

If you do wait, don't forget all the other calls that are waiting for you. You haven't eaten yet and you are working a 12 hour shift with some strong potential for overtime, since you are going on your days off and policy requires you complete all your reports before you leave.

So, did you decide to boot him?

Now change it to the owner is a male working out of state and just found out his live-in girlfriend with whom he has children has been cheating on him and he wants her and the children out of HIS place RIGHT now! You know the place belongs to him, it's in his name, the space is in his name per the park manager and it's winter. Do you boot her and the kids, too?

So after you boot the guy, he comes up with the written contract from his parent's place. Or maybe he shows you all the canceled rent checks. Or the owner feels guilty from all the fallout of having the guy booted, decides to make nice with the guy and tells you she is going to recant EVERYTHING she originally told you. It happens ALL THE TIME. Hopefully you audio-recorded it. If you didn't, hopefully the judge didn't go to Harvard, isn't a personal friend of POTUS and actually respects cops.

Of course, don't forget the guy is going to sue the department for some of his stuff that was stolen while he was taking another load of stuff to his new digs per your orders.

Things in the world of law enforcement are not always so simple.

I knew an officer who had a case where the owner of a vehicle voluntarily loaned it to a relative who took it upon himself to do some work on it without the owner's okay. The relative refused to return the car when the owner refused to pay for the work and even fled in it when the owner tried to get it back from him.

The officer confronted the relative, who had the keys in his possession (the vehicle was hidden elsewhere), and ordered him to turn them over or risk arrest for possession of stolen property (the keys).

The relative refused. The officer tried to arrest him. They fought. People came to the relative's aid. The officer backed off and called a supervisor, who advised him not to make an arrest after all.

The officer was later investigated for "false arrest" (his department deemed the whole thing a "civil matter") and "use of force" (nobody had a scratch and the suspect even apologized to the officer for making such a stink).

That kind of thing might make an officer somewhat gun-shy about using his authority to force someone to give back something or move out of a place when he/she can't possibly have all the facts at his immediate disposal. If he doesn't kick someone out, what's the worst that can happen to him/her; to have people here rant about how the cops won't do anything?

I would say this is just my 2 cents worth, but I think it ended up being more like a dime or two.

At least a couple dollars worth!

That was a very good story, whodunnit.

Maybe she can go on the Judge Judy show or something.

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We will meet in the golden city, called the New Jerusalem,
All our pain and all our tears will be no more.....

You know... Otter has dropped off the face of the planet again.. who knows if she will ever get the chance to see this...sigh.

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http://www.thehennery.blogspot.com -
the farm blog
http://thehennerytraditionals.blogspot.com/ -
the herbal blog + shop

I reckon Otter has more than one problem, then....

Hope she has a soft landing, wherever that may be...

__________________
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming