Septic Question

They will be putting the lines on the highest point of the lot. It already looks like a mound there. Would they still need more dirt? The mound now will be about 3-5' above the ground where the house will be. I wouldn't want it any higher.

Another thing is that each county seems to have their own rules. I wouldn't be surprised if each township didn't as well. Might be nice if they were standardized.

Nomad

I won't try to explain anything but I was told my local pumper that I should have put in three (3) tanks instead of the standard two (2) tanks. He claims that with a three tank system there would never be a need to replace the drainfield. Because I am on a side of a hill, the first two tanks would not have any pump. Just the last tank would have a pump, like I do now...if I ever need to move the drainfield, I will add the third tank, there is plenty of room between the house and the first tank on the hill.

My system is called an "at-grade" system. It's half way between a mound and traditional leachfield. Because it's on the side of a hill, you can't tell where the mound is (except the three inspection pipes give it away when you mow, of course I don't mow too often).

Nearly all new systems around here are mound. They change the state law a few years back and now you can build a mound on solid rock using low preasure pumps! Wouldn't want to live too close to that home....

No they would not bring in more dirt, YES they will be bringing gravel and/or sand. The topsoil will be scrapped to the side while they build the system. Then they put the topsoil back on mound. Will be a few feet higher than the original grade, hence the word "mound."

YES it will be higher, that's why most people put them in the backyard if they can and down hill so it's not so noticable (of course gravity is the REAL reason most septic systems are DOWN hill, less pumps to break).

Here's how it worked for me. They calculate the size of the system, i.e. tank and drain/leach field size, by the number of bedrooms and bathrooms. I don't see why a 4 bdrm house with 4 baths would need a bigger system than a 4 bdrm with 1 bath, can someone explain that to me?

Anyway after they get the size of the system they come in and determine the depth of the water table in the location where you are planning on putting the mound. You get to choose where you want the tank and mound. They do this by boring a hole and looking at the core. I wasn't paying that much attention but the guy who did mine showed me a 'line' in the core which he called the water line. You have to dig out the soil to that depth and fill it in to ground level with "septic sand", not all sand is "septic sand". Then they put the drain/leach lines on that and cover them with slotted plastic arches and cover that with more "septic sand". After that you are REQUIRED to have sod placed from ground level to the top edge of the mound (to prevent the sand from washing away).

The tank is then connected to the mound by a line, IIRC mine's 1 1/2", and a pump attached to that. As the effluent builds up it flows from one side of the tank into the other. Once it reaches a point the float switch kicks the pump on and pumps that side down until the switch kicks the pump off.

One thing they DIDN'T tell me is the float switch is rigged so you piggy back the pump plug into it. I burned up my pump because when I put the outlet in I couldn't close the waterproof cover with the two plugs plugged together so not knowing any better I plugged one into the top and the other into the bottom and closed the cover. As I have said that cost me about $175 and a couple of hours of my life.

Well that's the fun you have around here getting a septic system put in. Your mileage may vary.

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Generally, seasonal high watertable depth is used to determine whether a residence needs (1) a standard trench system, (2) an at-grade system, or (3) a mound system. In most states, a three-foot separation is required between the bottom of the distribution media and the top of the seasonal high watertable.

Mound System: seasonal high watertable is less than three feet below the soil surface.

At-grade System: seasonal high watertable is three to four feet below the soil surface

Standard trench or bed system: seasonal high watertable is greater than four feet below the soil surface.

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So the water table might be less than three feet below the surface? Is that something I will need to consider in deciding what to use the lot for? I guess a basement wouldn't be a good idea.

Nomad

Yes, that may be the reason why the septic designer did not put the system closer to where your house is going to be. If he put the system there, you may have been required to build a mound system. By pumping the wastewater uphill, the watertable is likely deeper and you could get by with a trench system which is only 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a mound system.

And remember, we're talking "seasonal" high watertable elevation. The watertable may never approach this level every year...and maybe only once or twice a decade. You can still build a basement in areas having high seasonal watertables, you just want to make sure that there is a drainage system surrounding the basement's footings.

If you could PM me an address or legal description of the property in question, I could send you back a customized soil survey of the property.

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I don't have an address. All I have so far is part of a survey map showing the lot and a few others around it. I'm sure I'll get more detailed information when I meet with the seller to sign the papers.

Nomad

It is entirely possible what you remember was a septic tank only. Around here almost no one has leach fields (we call them finger systems) or if they do the septic is not connected to them because they just don't work.

Also, until I started reading on this board, I never heard of having the septic pumped unless there was a problem. The last house we lived in was 50 years old before that point was ever reached. If you don't put gray water in it will work better.

Btw, I read a post above talking about 600 gallons/day for a house the size of mine. HOLY COW! I come unglued when we reach 6000/month and that includes watering flowers and out pets. Can't imagine consuming 18,000/month!

Mary

It's a leach field, that much I do remember the guy telling me. I asked about it because it looked like an octopus. They normally recommend having your tank pumped every three years around here. He said last night he would e-mail the paper to me today, but he seems a bit slow to do anything which is surprising since I know they aren't selling much during these down times. Our household normally uses 5000 gallons a month. That includes all the plants and a herd of cats. If I have goats at the new place it will go up a bit. If we ever got near 600 gallons a day, I'd be looking for a serious leak.


Nomad

I have a 5 bedroom house, the septic system needed to be rated for 10 people. There was no single system rated that high. I had to get a variance from the county to put in a smaller system. According to the county we needed a system that could do 1000 gpd, I looked through the last 5 years of water bills (when we lived in town) and at the most we avg 250 gpd (that was when we filled the pool twice). Got to love the county. We got a smaller system but still twice what we need. We put in an ecoflow it is mound system. I have a 12000 gal holding tank burried right off the back deck, a gravity fed 75gal pump tank burried next to it, and a mound 100' or so away from the house. The mound is a fiberglass (looks like a big hot tub) mound filled with peet moss, sitting on 4 inches of gravel. The dirt removed for the gravel is pilled ontop of the fiberglass mound. In theory you can drink the water under the rocks. YUCK!

We don't come close to tasking this system to much, it gets inspected once a year, per code. I don't like the fact that it is electric to pump the stuff out to the mound, when the power goes out the septic doesn't work, but then the water well is also electric so we are not adding water to the system. I have had zero trouble with it. I put the chicken pen next to the mound, and next year I am going to plant something on it that I don't have to mow.

With I system like this you could pump the stuff as far as you would need to, you would just need an extra pump tank every now and then.

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See my comments above in red.

And remember, I have been trained in septic systems by one of the industry's most famous experts!

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I finally got the health department letter and map. It shows a primary area with 10 - 160' lines and a reserve area with another 10 - 160' lines. It says it's designed for a four bedroom house 500 GPD Aerator followed by 1600 lineal feet of E.T. trenches. Maximum depth 18" lift pump required curtain drain required minimum depth 30 inches. Seems like there should have been some punctuation somewhere in that line but there isn't. The sheet doesn't have any identifying landmark or stake for me to know exactly where they are talking about. You'd think there would be something to show where they intend this to be. I suppose I'll have to call the health department and find out. Since I'll be putting up a building for the goats first, I'd kinda like to know it won't end up in my living room. That 40 gallons per person per day is just about what we use I think.

Nomad

Nomad, your really must have some tight clay soils where you are! The proposed design calls for 1600 linear feet of evapotransipation (ET) trenches. Typically, an ET system involves digging a shallow trench, the bottom half of the trench contains the distribution pipe surrounded by rock and the top half of the trench is sand. I guess some people grow plants in the sand. At any rate, with an ET system wastewater is disposed of primarily by evaporation and transpiration by plants as opposed to infiltration into the soil. We don't use this type of system in Minnesota because it would be frozen for several months out of the year.

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I'm not sure about the soil here, but I was raised in northwest Ohio and it was clay. I think the frost line here is about 3 feet. Would that be a problem? Is the area where the lines go just wasted space or will I be able to plant something on it? I don't guess putting a building there would be too smart. How about the trees there? They are thin where I think they mean the lines to go, so would they work around them of take them down? I suppose the roots might be a problem eventually.

Nomad

You could grow a lawn on the system, but no trees. It's up to your installer whether he'll wind the trenches around existing trees.

What I can say is, you'll probaly need special approval or a variance for this type of system because it is not a "standard" wastewater system. Also, it would seem to me that in Ohio precipitaiton exceeds evaporation, so how one would expect an additional volume of water to evaporate is beyond me. Out West maybe, but in the humid Northeast....I don't know.

Like I said, I am not real familiar with ET systems since they are not built in Minnesota.

You might want to check out the following documents to learn more:

http://www.nesc.wvu.edu/pdf/WW/publi...eti/ET_gen.pdf

https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/...V099N3_038.pdf

http://www.miamicountyin.gov/Departm...evapotrans.pdf

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I live in Stark County which is shown as clear with no key. Wonder what that means? I'm not sure I'm too happy with this system. Maybe I need to talk to the health department before I sign the papers Tuesday. It sounds like this system could fail. Must be why they have an extra 1600' of lines for a reserve. They don't care how they spend my money. Somebody has signed off on this paper. There are four lines and the first one says Class2, then it has Owner, Builder and Installer. The Class2 has been signed. I guess that must be the guy who did the test and designed the system to be used on this lot. Thanks for the information. I need to get to the bottom of this.

Nomad

I have a question for you, why do you need a bigger system for the same sized home just because of more bathrooms? IOW, why does a 4bdrm-3bath house need a larger system than a 4 bdrm-1bath?

__________________
Remember, when seconds count. . .
the police are just MINUTES away!

Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. . .Davy Crockett

Here is the county website that deals with septics ==> http://www.starkhealth.org/sewage.htm

I scanned the septic regs and did not see any mention about an evapotranspiration (ET) system...unless, they are referring to a drip systems as an ET system? A drip system is almost identical to a drip irrigation system. A trencher plows in flex tubing that has an emitter about every 1' along its length. There are no trenches or distribution media (eg rock) involved. A narrow furrow is sliced into the sod and the tubing is slid into narrow slit. This is a standard system in Stark County...perhaps this is what they have designed?

And it is very common for a State or county to require a second suitable area of equal size as a backup as part of the septic system permit.

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I would only be guessing an answer to your question. In Minnesota, the size of the system is based on the # of bedrooms only. Perhaps where you live, they assume that the more bathrooms, the more likely all bedrooms will be occupied all of the time and thus more water would be used.

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