I had to shoot at a guy tonight

I am not going to get sucked into the argument as to whether Ol Vet made the right or wrong decision given the circumstances presented. As others have said, we were not there, so how would we really know what we’d do in the identical situation. What I will say is if Ol Vet believed in his heart of hearts that his life was seriously being threatened, then he made the right decision. Without a doubt, if I believed my life was being seriously threatened I would make the same decision that Ol’ Vet did.

But here’s the rub. If things had turned out differently, let’s say that Ol’ Vet killed the trespasser and no weapon was found on the body, Ol Vet or me or you or the Sheriff don’t get to decide whether the right decision was made. A jury will make that decision. A jury will decide whether a trespasser at 75 yards distance, in a crouched position with his hand in his pocket, constitutes a serious threat to life and limb. And whatever that judge and jury decrees is what will have to be lived with, like it or not. Would that consequence....that is, the possibility of being incarcerated and losing everything I have.....stop me from defending myself in what I thought was a life-threatening situation? Absolutely not!

Many times,...perhaps, most times....the consequence of a righteous shooting, ends up in court. The person who defended his life by shooting now has to defend his decision to a judge and jury. That person goes to trial as a murder suspect and has to defend his actions. Even though he may be found innocent, oftentimes he ends up sacrificing his life’s savings, his pension, his home, his job, and even his family during the course of his defense trial. It sucks, it’s not fair, that a person can lose everything by simply defending his life. Again I say, would this possible eventuality keep me from defending my life? No, it would not. I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

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This is the government the Founding Fathers warned us about.....

Not necessarily true with regard to property protection, depends on the state you live in.

actually...assuming a bullet travels at say 1600 feet per second...a bullet from 3 feet would kill the person 21.3 times faster

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"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow the fields of those who don't."-Thomas Jefferson

I guessed I missed it who said anything about firing a warning shot in the air ??
as others have pointed out One never fires in the air , what goes up must come down . even at 200 fps a bullet is deadly (based on angle and loss of speed from the average factory loaded 9mm)
I personally refuse to attempt to judge Ol vets actions , I wasnt in his shoes or head at the time . Im quite sure as a responsible person he's replayed the scene over and over in his head searching for alternatives, mistakes ,and positives .
In short he has no doubt anilized the events far more critically than any of those posting . Those who have never shot at another human do not understand how much one second guesses their own actions .
Right or wrong is something he will have to deal with personally in his own judgment . Its something he would deal with if it had been 7 ft or 70 yards .
But until your in the same situation with the same history .
None of us have anyway of knowing for sure how we would have reacted .
I realize there are some who would never fire a weapon or have one in their home . I can respect their views concerning their own beliefs .
As someone who does have weapons and if need be will use them I would be personally responsible for my actions.
I think some see Vets post as bragging that he shot at someone .
I seriously doubt that is the case , I doubt very much that he would fire on someone without some serious thought on his part. No where in his posts have I ever witnessed the killem all let God sort them out attitude seen in so many .
Vet I hope you manage to get some sleep . Good luck and stay safe .

I want to chime in on the ludicrous idea of shooting into the air for a warning shot. THAT'S STUPID. I'm opposed to a warning shot anyway. If you discharge your weapon with the intent to get them next time if they don't stop or go away...it might be too late for you. The warning shot (second chance) you gave them will not be reciprocated.

BTW...if a guy is crouching down, who's to say he didn't have a rifle? He could have been steadying it on the tractor. If Old Vet was standing in a lit doorway, he would have made an easy target. Even having a flashlight or a laser pointed towards the direction of the trespasser could have resulted in a tragic ending for Old Vet...just put your sights on the light and squeeze the trigger.

Just can't help thinking that those who are critical of Old Vet might want to evaluate their sympathy for the tresspasser in light of the cold-blooded murder of the parents in Pensacola, whose only crime apparently was that they worked hard to provide a loving home for 16 kids, many of them special needs. Sadly, they never had the chance to decide whether the men (masked) were just "looking for something" or whatever hogwash has been posted here. They were looking to steal and obviously to kill.

... No, not really. Maybe about .14 seconds faster, but that is negligible considering you can't dodge a bullet in that amount of time.

I agree with that. When does it become necessary? you and no one else can answer that. It is something that your training and instinct tells you. How many times have the police shot at a person that was using a cell phone or something like that. I have no cell phone reception in my area or anywhere close to my area so using a cell phone is not an option. I have no close neighbors and I must be on guard for anything since the sheriff is so far away I am required to be the law on my place. I obey the law and require that all others obey the law on my property. If somebody were taking a leak they should have don that in the woods not on my tractor. There is no reasonable excuse for him to be their. I went and talked to the sheriff not to a deputy and he said he would have done the same thing. Another deputy that was their asked me why I didn't just bury him? I toled him that I missed or looks like I did. He didn't even know that I lived their. I have lived here for 9 years and this is the only time they have come buy.There have been a lot of scenario that are presenting here and not one of them is correct except the one that I toled you about. I have no remorse or guilt like most of you want me to have. The sheriff toled me to do what I thought was right and we would do what ever is necessarily afterwords.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

No it was not bragging I would have gone to my grave before I would brag about something like this. I needed somebody to talk to about this so I was posting here to talk about it and get some of the relieve that talking about it will give you.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

Yes, because I disagree that shooting to kill someone first, is not right, its obvious i have never had to make split decisions before

You dont know me.

And I dont believe killing this person was a necessary option.

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Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

Old Vet
It was your call, you were there, I'm glad you are alright and I'm glad you scared the guy off without killing him.
I'm not going to judge you, I know you don't take shooting someone lightly, none of us would.
Personally, I'm kinda near sighted and in the dark, even with a light I'm not sure I could identify my target at that distance. But that's just me.
I honestly don't know if I would have done the same thing, I wasn't there.
It's easy for us to sit in judgment, telling you what you should or shouldn't have done, but not one of us knows for sure what we would have done until we are in the exact same situation.
I live in the middle of nowhere, and if someone is skulking around here in the middle of the night, I would have no problem pointing a gun at them.
Would I shoot?
I probably would to defend myself or others, but I hope and pray I never have to find out.
Rest easy man, everything turned out OK, no harm no foul.

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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain
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Enforced tolerance is oppression

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

That is your decision to make. Not mine or anybodies else and you can suffer the consequence like I will for mine. How many time per week are you bothered by persons walking in your yard and how close your neighbors are. My nearest neighbor lives 1 mile away over a bluff and can't see my house. To get to my house you will either have to come from a road in the front of my house or walk through the woods for about a mile. I have never found a lost person that was glad to talk with me. If somebody were to kill me and my wife it would take several days for anybody to find out about it.We have gone days before we go anywhere.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

You did what needed to be done Old Vet. I'm glad we still have the option to protect our homes and families.

For those who say 70 yards is too far to be a threat, you are wrong. I'm an above average pistol shot, and could hit you with most of my handguns, most of the time at that distance. With a rifle, hitting a basketball sized target at 300 yards is a simple thing to do. Add in darkness and stress and the odds go down of course, but they don't drop to zero chance of getting hit.

And who is to say Old Vet's shots didn't also scare off the guy's accomplice, hiding somewhere else with a shotgun?

Forget the warning shots. That either accelerates the situation, leaves you one round less when needed, or lands in somebody's head. Don't fire if you aren't sure of your backstop. The sky isn't a suitable backstop.

Rest easy Old Vet. I bet word on the streets in your territory is to avoid your place. That Old Vet will shoot at you.

To best honest I think the answer here is not to put yourself in a situation where you're wandering around with a flashlight in the dark taking shots at people, justifiably or not. Chances our it doesn't end well for you whatever happens. As it is missing him was probably the best possible outcome.

First thing to do is to look over the layout of your property, and where you're putting things with any value. Then I'd look to maybe put some security floodlights in, motion-sensor or on a switch in your house. Try to think about what else you can do that doesn't involve so much risk to your future either one way or another.

If you need to challenge someone with your gun you should maybe put yourself at more of an advantage and give yourself some more time to decide if you face a deadly threat.

And you don't know Old Vet...so why are you judging him? Your arguments against him are tiring at best. You're determined to make him the bad guy...I get it. NOW, FOR THE LAST TIME, YOU WEREN'T THERE!!! He said he felt threatened. No one can argue with him about that.



I'll put it in perspective for you. Your mailman walks into your gated yard every day. Sometimes, your stupid, fluffy dog is outside. When you're around, the dog keeps his distance from your mailman. You will undoubtedly tell the mailman that your dog wouldn't bite the fleas on his back. When you're not around, the dog rushes the gate to bark and growl. Your mailman tells you to keep the stupid dog up until the mail has been safely deposited in the approved receptacle. You say you've had the dog for eight years and the dog has never bitten anyone and you will not keep the dog up because he will not bite. Your mailman stops delivering your mail. Wanna know why? He perceived a threat. He acted accordingly. You can't argue with him, you just have to keep your dog up before the power company disconnects you.

I think we should meet up and hash this out. Saturday? About 3 AM. Behind Old Vet's tractor. If I'm a few minutes late, you'll understand, won't you?

I agree. Let everyone rob you and take advantage of you. Then apply for a government bailout. If you aren't a victim in America, you are the problem.



Back to reality ... Does anyone know that law in Arkansas? I'd be interested in knowing.




TBH, I hear the same old broken record in every post. How can you not know her?

Yeah, that has a lot to do with anything in this thread
Ive no clue how you think it does.

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Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

I think it's best that you research that for yourself. I'd hate to be the guy that said to the officer, "Uh, no...I know the law...How do I know?...Well, this guy on a forum I frequent told me. What state was he from? Uh, I don't know."

Just curious. I have no intentions of leaving Heaven, I mean Texas.

Awww, is that what you thought I meant. So anxious to prove some point or other that you didn't think first huh?

The point here is that IF the guy had been the threat to his life that he thought he was when making the decision to fire, Old Vet would now likely be dead. He missed and the guy disappears into the dark. Old Vet is standing there holding a flashlight and giving his exact location away for any return fire, or a shot from any second thief.

If you're going to get in a firefight with anyone, you don't want to be the guy standing there in the open at night holding a flashlight. It doesn't show how tough your are or that you're somehow sticking it to the criminal.

Even if he had hit the guy he could now be facing jail time. Is it really worth it?

Whether you have a gun or not, you need to put yourself at an advantage - and there are some cheap and easy steps you can take so you don't find yourself in this situation in the middle of the night, or at least enable you to better make informed decisions as to the threat you're under because they could affect the rest of your life.