I had to shoot at a guy tonight

I have to say, I agree with these statements, for what it's worth. I hope to never be in a situation where I feel I need to shoot at someone. Old Vet, I'm so sorry you were put in this situation.

that's just nuts-
a violation of every basic gun rule
like know where your bullet is going,
know what you're shooting at.

just because you live rural
doesn't set back the clock to 1809 A.D.
most of this thread is just macho talk, dirt cheap.
but that comment of yours
is just plain scary.

and as for this 'criminal' name tag
making it ok to kill over trivial offenses-
innocent until proved guilty in a court of law.

if you want to try to use law to justify your actions
the use ALL of the law-
not just the part that you like.

because if you kill someone without just cause
then you're the criminal.

This post and others similiar to it always make me go out in the woods and sit on a stump for awhile. I always have to make double dog sure that any time I take a gun in my hands, I realize that I have taken on the capacity, and the responsibility, of taking another person's life. That's awesome and very serious business. I recommend that everyone, before ever getting a gun, should sit down on a stump, too, and consider the various situations and encounters that would allow them to pull the trigger on another person. It will vary from person to person, and state to state. But, in your heart, you should know your bottom line beforehand. That's just my opinion.

well..this has me kind of torn. one the one hand, I'm all about protecting property.....BUT simply seeing a man crouch down (while a light is suddenly thrust in his eyes) doesn't really put my trigger finger into action. guess it IS the 'you weren't there', cause just from reading.........I wouldn't have started shooting.

Whether this shooting was legal or not will depend on the law in the particular state.

What it definately does not depend on is the attitude or good will of your local sheriff. Whoever said that there is nothing like a body to turn a good old boy into a law enforcement officer was right on.

It is also important to keep in mind that you are responsible for your bullet, forever. You had better know where it is going. Because if you don't know your backdrop, and it ends up killing your neighbor, the fact that you were legally shooting at an intruder won't keep you out of jail.

Not to mention, "Never shoot at something you don't intend to kill." Warning shots are fired in the air, not at the intruder. Firing a gun at an intruder means you're trying to kill them. Period.

I'm intrigued that this is the defense for trying to kill the person in the dark. Yet, no one seems even remotely interested in walking a mile in his shoes.
No one, not even Old Vet, has any clue why he was out there. Yet, so many of you have said he deserved to die for it.

I guess I agree with Willy on this:

__________________
~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

I have unfortunately had to knock on someone's door at 2 in the morn and ask for gas. I make it a point if I am someone else's property to say something or state why I am there. If the guy honestly needed help he should have knocked on Vet's door. Myself, I wouldn't have shot at the guy but I am not going to condemn Vet for doing so. Everyone can talk big and bad but the truth is no one here knows how they would have reacted in that sort of situation. I think we should be thankful no-one got hurt and hopefully the intruder learned his lesson about sneaking around.

__________________
http://www.xanga.com/shackman A blog about whatever

many of us know exactly what we'd do in that situation,
having faced it before ourselves.
i've had plenty of situations that required split-second
life-or-death decisions.
he isn't the only person to ever encounter an intruder in the dark.

i get some poachers on my land from time to time-
now it really ticks me off to hear gunfire in my own woods,
but i know better than to go out up into the woods at night
to confront armed men
when i do not absolutely have to.

there's the point-
it is a choice.
firing at a person should be the last resort
not the first.

I said hello and shined a flashlight on him and that is when he went to his pocket and I didn't want him bringing out a gun too kill me with that is the only reason I shot at him.

The critical fact in my opinion.

When you get caught trespassing at night, especially around someone's barn, house, or equipment the thing to do is to immediately put your hands out in the open where they can be seen and to start talking about why you're there.

Reaching into your pocket when the property owner throws down on you with a flashlight is a very bad idea. 75 yards is a long shot, but if I'd been Old Vet standing out in the open and that fella had one that I'd probably have shot at him too.

The owner does not have to justify being on his property. The trespasser does. Making a furtive move such as he did is an invitation to being shot.

.....Alan.

I don't think observing an individual who is 75 yards away qualifies as a "life or death" situation.

I tried to get a perspective of what 75 yards is, one I could relate to. My house sits about 200 feet (maybe a little less) from the highway. Looking from my house down to the highway, I doubt very much I would feel particularly threatened by someone that far away......and I'm a single woman.

I also doubt if, at night, even with the help of a flashlight, I could see someone reaching for his pocket from that distance.

Or was he crouching in a threatening position?

Or both?

Janis

The original story was: "he hunched over in a threat[en]ing ma[nn]er."
It wasn't until after he'd gotten some criticism that Old Vet added the part about going for his pocket.

I'll confess, I have to wonder why it wasn't criticial enough information to be included in the first story.

__________________
~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

see..that's the only problem I have with the story. the sudden fact that he was reaching in to his pocket wasn't mentioned at all...until Old Vet felt defensive. now, that's not saying I don't understand that he must have felt fear......just saying...

you state something, then suddenly more 'facts' appear posts later. seems kind of dubious to me.

The fact remains WE were not there. Could it have been handled differently? maybe, but than maybe he needed to to exactly what he did. I posted a few months ago on a similar situation at our place. I found people were to easy to jump to critisim and not listen to what was really being said. Sometimes the story doesn't change, it just gets explained a little clearer. If he was harmless I guess next time he'll remember to knock on the door first.

Being shot at 75 yards can kill someone just as fast as a bullet from 1 yard can.

Have to chime in, as one NEVER shoots a warning shot in the air!!!

You NEVER know where the bullet will come down. Shoot it into the ground.

Remember KNOW WHERE YOU ARE SHOOTING!

There's been a couple people killed in Phoenix on New Years Eve by stooopid people shooting up in the air. Now they have a law against that.

Years ago, my next door neighbor (in Phoenix) heard something rustling in the bushes outside his front door. Got his gun, was ready to shoot into the bushes when his daughter stood up. She was trying to catch her cat. Lesson learned.

__________________
Only she who attempts the absurd can achieve the impossible

No! Really, it takes a bullet longer to travel 75 yards than it does to travel 1 yard.(:~)

Eh.
The most basic of forethought and you can safely shoot a gun in the air. Don't shoot straight up. Don't shoot in a crowd or near neighbors. Don't fire at a angle into the wind. Etc.

__________________
~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

It is not safe to fire a shot into the air. Not to say we haven't all done it, but it still isn't safe.

Janis, try looking behind your home on your property instead of on a public road. If you shined someone there at an hour when they had absolutely no business being there and in what you percieved to be an aggressive mode think you might feel threatened?

I don't think I would feel such an immediate threat that I could justify shooting at someone.

I realize someone was prowling around Old Vet's tractor, but I don't think that justifies taking a life. Shooting into the ground to spook him......maybe.

As far as feeling "threatened" with bodily harm? I'd have to let the guy get a lot closer to my house than 75 yards to feel that my life was in danger.

In my case, I'd let my dogs out. I'm not going to say here how many dogs I have (you all would think I was nuts) but I think it's pretty safe to say someone would have to be insane to come close to my house. And it would take more than one bullet to stop my pack.

Heh Heh. Who needs a gun?

Janis