'nuther health question - bad back!!!!

He doesn't know. He told me to go to my doctor. He also doesn't know. He sent me to the Neurologist, and he doesn't know.

What I do know is that my problem isn't unique. I did a google search and have found others with the exact same experience. None of their doctors know either.

__________________
I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam.

Popeye

cc-rider, I'll share what my husband did and maybe you can get some help from his experience. DH has 3 ruptured discs, not sure which ones, but they're in the lower back. He had pain that ran down his leg into his foot, bad enough that it would put him on the floor with pain. He also has Crohns disease and diabetes and is limited on what meds he can take. His Crohns specialist referred him to a neurosurgeon. The neurosurgeon set him up to go to the pain clinic and receive shots in his spine that numb this one nerve that's causing all that pain. It's a series of 3 shots. He has to go to the local hospital outpatient center to receive these and he gets this series of shots about twice a year. He's been doing this for about 3 years now and has avoided surgery by doing this. He's also pain free until it's time for another series of shots.

Take what you will from this personal experience. I'd recommend going to the neurosurgeon and asking about the shots.

What you have is nerve root compression and radiopathy down your leg. It does not sound muscular at all, especially the pain radiating down your leg and numbness.

Sometimes PT works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes chiro works, sometimes it doesn't. PT works on the muscles to strengthen and for range of motion. Chiro manipulates so that maybe if they can even get the disk 1 mm away from the nerve root then you will stop having pain or have less. It's good that you tried both. More wouldn't hurt, but it is expensive. Do more of both or either if you can, but regardless you definitely need to continue to do your PT exercises at home on a regular basis to build up your back muscles and work on abdominal muscles as well, or else you will have more back problems long term.

Lose weight if you need to, my chiro says that even 10 pounds lost makes a huge difference.

Do not rest meaning lie in bed for days. Keep as active as you can, but use proper body mechanics when lifting and be careful not to overdo things. You will get to know when you are about to overdo.

Lay on ice as much as you can during the day. Just take breaks and lie down on your bed or sofa on some ice or gel coolers where it hurts with a thin cloth on top. This helps reduce any swelling/inflammation, which helps longterm in the healing process. If you have plans or need to do some heavier work and are having a lot of pain, use MOIST heat for relief. Do NOT use a heating pad (I did on low and had skin breakdown I didn't even realize was happening). I LOVED those Therapad heat pads I found at our local CVS for use when I was away from home. Get yourself a back support brace for those heavier work days as well and use the Therapad inside of it. When you're home before you are going to do an activity or heavy work, use a heated gel or moistened rice/bean pad to lay on beforehand. This loosens up your muscles and helps with the pain itself. Doesn't really heal your underlying back issue like ice and anti-inflammatory drugs do, but does help a lot with pain.

Take an anti-inflammatory drug like Advil/Motrin and take it regularly unless you have issues where you cannot take an NSAID and read the back of the pkg for nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory warnings carefully. Longterm use can cause stomach/digestive issues, so be careful with that. This helps with inflammation for longterm healing.

You can get additional steroid injections in your back, but if the first one did not work then subsequent ones may not work either, but if you are looking at surgery, another "hail mary" shot is something that you may want to consider before that. Seeing a neurosurgeon really depends on what kind of pain you are in. I wouldn't go for it unless it was sheer desperation and there was nothing else I could do and I couldn't stand the pain or function much and I had done all the above and given it several months.

I have had a few bad episodes of acute back pain in the past, the last of which especially had me totally bedridden. I could barely shower and could sit for only minutes at a time. I couldn't do anything much at all. I went to PT for 12 weeks 3 times a week with no help. Then I made an appointment with a chiro and in one visit I literally had no more back pain. It was like a miracle. I literally went in there and in the waiting room I had to lay on the floor in desperation and severe pain, and after the adjustment I sat up with no pain at all. I was starting to get depressed and everything, but he must have adjusted it just enough away from the nerve so that it didn't touch and it completely relieved my pain. It came back a little so I kept going to him and it helped. (In previous back pain exacerbations, however, chiro did not work where PT did). He also gave me a back support brace (do not use this too much, as you don't want your back muscles to weaken...just use it for support when you know you will be pushing yourself) and spent the time teaching me about when to do ice and heat, what kind of heat to use, anti-inflammatories, etc.

I hope this helps. Take care, Christine

Disclaimer: I am not your doctor. You should see your doctor, and follow his advice. The following advice is general information only. It is impossible to assess, much less diagnose a patient without seeing them and it is wrong to treat a patient without seeing them. I am not an orthopedic or neurosurgeon, and thus am not qualified to treat you in any case.

That said, my wife had a herniated disk, which is what it sounds like you have. She was initially treated with a steroid injection and with chiropractic manipulation. It worked for over a year, but eventually she needed surgery. She was in the hospital overnight, but that was a long time ago, and they may be doing it as an outpatient now, I don't know. Since surgery, she's had two pregnancies and almost 20 years of normal living without anything more than normal aches and pains. For her, it was a tremendous success. But as with any surgery there are risks, and you should talk to your surgeon about them.

My father had a herniated disk also. He saw a chiropractor, and an orthopedic surgeon. He was treated non-operatively, and got better. He still does stretching exercises and back strengthening exercises given to him by his doctor fairly regularly, and it's been close to 30 years. He never had to have surgery, but he is very conscientious about lifting properly, avoiding injury and exercising and stretching to keep his back strong.


The symptoms you are describing about pain going down your leg sound like radiculopathy, or nerve compression. Sometimes pain can be tollerated, and even get better with time with various treatments. If it doesn't get better with non-operative management, you may need surgery. But if you ever develop weakness however, the nerve needs to be decompressed as soon as possible, as the weakness can become permanent.

Hope this helps, and I wish you the best.

If it were my back, I would do much of what you have done. If it didn't get better, I would ASK to see a neurosurgeon (orthopedic surgeons with spine training also treat this, but my wife's surgeon was a neurosurgeon).

Yeah, I wouldn't fool around with it. See a neurosurgeon, they'll tell you how bad it is and what you should do about it. They won't suggest surgery unless it's necessary.
Take your MRI to the appointment.

This isn't a cure, but it sure helps... Cut out caffiene from your diet. Caffiene (a diuretic) dehydrates your discs, which increases pain.
Keep those discs as hydrated as possible.

..............Consult with a Physical therapist and have them show you some appropriate excercises to strenghten your back and your whole body , join a health club and start working out ! Chiro's don't stay in business by treating patients , successfully , in one or two visits . Weak muscles result in bad posture , injury , and UNsuccessful and repeated visits too the docs and the pill pushers . , fordy

Thanks for the caffeine hint. I don't drink caffeine at all, but I don't drink enough water either. I'll try increasing my water intake. I know that will help in all other issues, too!

Fordy, yes, I've been doing "core" exercises that are supposed to strengthen my back and posture. And I don't have to worry about "pill pushers"....my MD hasn't prescribed a single thing! Even when I begged for pain meds when the sciatica (sp?) was at it's worst and couldn't even move. He told me to take ibuprofen. I was really frustrated...I felt like he thought I was a druggie....and I don't even take tylenol unless I absolutely need it!

I have had 3 back operations including one that they went threw my stomach to work on it from that side. If you count all the nuts bolts and every thing I have 28 pieces of Titanium back there they also have taken bone from both hips as well and added back there.
Sounds like your doctor is right and you need a operation to fix the problem. Now a lot of people do like I done and try to put it off because they do not want a operation. Well take it from me that is a very bad thing to do as it will only get much worse. I have bad nerve damage going down both legs because I waited years to long. I am very lucky I can still walk.

I am 100% anti chiropractor... After looking me over he said ok I can help you. This was a very well respected chiropractor that 2 real doctors told me was the one to see. The very first time he went to "adjust" me a shock went down my legs. He said that it was normal. 6 months later he had never tried "adjusting" me again. He just had me come in 2 times a week put heat on the area and then some little shocking things. When I asked if that was all he was ever going to do I was told that was all that could be done. He know he could not help me at all yet he still wanted the money. I thought about taking him to court but my Real doctor that I went to to get things fixed said that the guy did not do any damage just prolonged the pain.

Oh and I am only 44 now and my last operation was about 10 years ago. in a case like mine they have done every thing that can be done and can just control the pain the rest of my like. I just done way to much damage back there for them to fix it.

I didnt read any of the responses so forgive me if Im repeating whats already been said. But, I have a horrible back and it started with a disc bulging at L5-S1. I had the psciatic pain through my butt checck and down my leg to my foot like you. First off, a chiro can not help you with this problem. The only two things you can do is take it easy, wait and see if its will get better on its own(sometimes they do), or see a neuro and have a discectomy to cut off the bulge. I waited several months until the pain got so bad I wanted to die. Finally, I had the lumbar diskectomy at L5-S1. It was not a fun experience. And, although it made the constant want to kill myself pain go away, after the surgery, I had pain down both legs when it was only the one before. Now, two years after surgery, I regret having it. My L5-S1 has rebulged along with the disc at L4-5 and the one above it. Some people have the surgery and feel all better. Not me though. I feel for you. The MRI you had does not just show the spine, you can actually see the disc bulging out. Ive got copies of my MRI's and they are pretty neat.

Now, a lot of times, a bulging disc will take care of itself, its just dealing with the pain until it does that is hard to do. Most of the pain is because the bulge is pressing on the nerve roots running down your spine which causes most of the pain. Sometimes, even though it is still bulged, it can shift off of the nerve root and a lot of the pain goes away. This is a dangerous time because you feel better even though your disc is still messed up. You have to seriously watch what you do. You need to change the way you do everything. You are going to have to work smart and slow. Dont pick up heavy things. Use leverage and thing with wheels to help you. Use chain hoists and front end loaders, or whatever you can come up with that doesnt invlove you picking stuff up. Get one of the grabbers from wlamart or Tractor supply so you dont have to bend over to pick things up. Bend at the knees. Dont sleep on your stomach at night. If you sleep on your side, keep a pillow between your knees. If you sleep on your back, keep a pillow under your legs. These things help. Alternate heat and cold on your back. But the main thing is take it easy. Once you mess your back up its that much easier to do it again and again. My back is now shredded and Im only 31. Had my back surgery at 29. Its sucks but you need to get your mind right about it before its too late.

Another thing. When you go see the neuro, most of them just want to cut you open. Dont immediately agree, research the procedure, and the doctor. Make sure its him that will do the procedure and not a student or another doctor under him. But most of all, if you can deal with the pain, give it a chance to heal on its own. But, taking it very easy and not lifting stuff or running or jumping type things is very important. Sometimes a back brace will help for short periods of time but dont wear it too long or the other muscles in your back will get weaker. Look up core strengthening exercises online and do them daily.

This is a very good website for some research. They also have a great forums area for people in pain like you. Hang in there.

http://www.spine-health.com/
http://www.spine-health.com/forum

you have sciatic pain..you need to look up sciatic exercises..sit in a straight high up chair..and if possible put your feet up on a stool to rest the sciatic..use heat at night on the affected hip..and sleep with a large bed size cushion under our leg/knee area..when you sleep at night..do this exercise..before you get out of bed..lie on your back..knees bent..lift your butt off the bed..hold a few seconds..repeat..do at least 20 to 25..as you are feeling better up it to 50..every day..then start some other on the bed exercises..such as toes out..toes in..knee to chest..leg to side..leg lift..low impact crunch. lie on side..knee to elbow..leg up..etc..start with just a few slow moves and add more as you can