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  #101  
Old 07/07/09, 08:55 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: central, mn
Posts: 2,906
i dont really care for it when some one i dont know comes in my yard--which is fenced in and gated across the drive. but sometimes the ups ect has to. what i dont like is anybody that feels they can just go in my barn or outbuildings with out my permission. i had a neighbor lady knock on the door and woke me up, by the time i got to the door she was already coming out of my barn and says no eggs huh? i would have given her all the eggs she wanted but not after that. unless you tell some one they can go inside any buildings if your gone they should stay out--i dont care who it is.
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  #102  
Old 07/07/09, 08:58 PM
cowcreekgeeks's Avatar  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Huntington, West Virginia
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbackMP View Post
Missouri has two classes of tresspassing.

Simple tresspassing on unposted land (a misdeminor) and felony tresspassing on posted land (note that is is just called felony tresspassing--it is actually a class A misdeminor punishable up to 1 year in jail).
Salute ya SilverbackMP...did my time in Ouijongbu. Second to None!!!
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  #103  
Old 07/08/09, 07:54 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowcreekgeeks View Post
You said otherwise in the quote that I'll qoute again for you. Reading...or remembering what you said and NOT contradicting yourself: It's fundamental.

I was not aware the WWW had a bar. I'm NOT a lawyer but I know a hack when I see one.
Read more carefully. I made a general statement about law on this continent (which would include Canada, btw, and so obviously I wasn't talking about USC. Well, obviously to anyone who knows how to read, anyway) which is absolutely correct.

I am admitted in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, State of New Hampshire and District of Columbia.

Sorry if you don't like what you hear. You're still wrong.

Last edited by TurnerHill; 07/08/09 at 07:57 AM.
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  #104  
Old 07/08/09, 08:48 AM
Kathleen in WI's Avatar
Formerly Kathleen in AR
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,037
This is a really long thread so I may have missed this somewhere. Forgive me if I am asking something that has already been stated. My understanding thus far is that people can legally be on someone's property unless it is posted. Right?

There is a church behind my house. It is not posted. Yet when neighborhood teens think the back parking lot (and my yard which adjoins) is a place to have a party and I call the police, I am told that those kids can be arrested for trespassing. The nice officer I spoke to said since it is after "business hours" they have no right to be on that property. He very kindly took care of the problem (thank goodness).

Is this different because it isn't rural? Or am I misunderstanding something? I'm sure it was covered and I'm just missing it.

There is also a very nice house in our neighborhood right on the water. It's empty and for sale. A bunch of kids decided it would be a fun hangout and were escorted out under no uncertain circumstances for trespassing.

Maybe this is something specific to Florida? (Off to try to find the laws for Colorado. I don't want people roaming around my 40 acres without permission)
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  #105  
Old 07/08/09, 09:01 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 880
There is a difference between the improved area immediately adjacent to the structure (curtilage) and open and unimproved land.

The church situation would likely apply almost anywhere.

Is your new land fenced? In many places, fencing is the legal equivalent of posting.
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  #106  
Old 07/08/09, 09:14 AM
Kathleen in WI's Avatar
Formerly Kathleen in AR
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,037
Yes, it has barbed wire all around. All open and flat. I need to plant some trees.
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  #107  
Old 07/08/09, 09:41 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathleen in AR View Post
Yes, it has barbed wire all around. All open and flat. I need to plant some trees.
I'd bet that wil cover it. I don't claim to be familiar with Colorado law, but fences usually are taken to mean, "Do not cross."

In general, trespassing laws are stronger in Western states than in Eastern states. This is because the influence of the original English common law which presumed open access (despite what some on this thread have claimed) is less in the West.

I still think there are good reasons for allowing open access. Preserving the hunting tradition, and thereby contributing to the preservation of Second Amendment right, is one.

Another is making sure that we retain the ability to exclude people. If too much land is shut off, laws may well be changed to require access. Try looking up "right to roam" law in Britain. It would make the heads of some posters here explode. But it could happen, of too many people close off their land.
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  #108  
Old 07/08/09, 09:57 AM
palani's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnerHill View Post
I'd bet that wil cover it. I don't claim to be familiar with Colorado law, but fences usually are taken to mean, "Do not cross."
In Arizona three strands of bob wire mean "this is BLM ground and I lease it so I put up the fence to keep the cows in". As BLM ground is public and the rancher has only leased the grazing rights there is nothing wrong with walking across the property to gain access to other public property.

As the previous paragraph implies, if a rancher wants to keep out the public he puts up four strands of bob wire. Best stay out.
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  #109  
Old 07/08/09, 10:23 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by palani View Post
In Arizona three strands of bob wire mean "this is BLM ground and I lease it so I put up the fence to keep the cows in". As BLM ground is public and the rancher has only leased the grazing rights there is nothing wrong with walking across the property to gain access to other public property.

As the previous paragraph implies, if a rancher wants to keep out the public he puts up four strands of bob wire. Best stay out.
Yeah, there is a concept of the "legal fence", which states that a fence must meet a certain description (lines of wire, distance between posts, etc) in order to entitle a property owner to damages by livestock in a "fence-out" state. But usually humans are assumed to be able to understand that a fence is intended to keep them out. The whole BLM/NPS/BIA situation definately throws things for a loop.
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  #110  
Old 07/08/09, 10:56 AM
Common Tator's Avatar
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southern Taxifornia
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Kathleen, I am happy for you that you are moving to a new place, and I am glad it is fenced. Please do yourself a big, huge favor and get yourself a bunch of NO TRESPASSING signs and post them all around your property, and especially at the entrances to your land. Gate your driveway if at all possible.

My ranch is completely surrounded by National Forest, and has two entrances. Mountain bikers will leave established bike trails and come through my ranch knowing they are trespassing. They tear down the no trespassing signs they can reach, rip down fencing, and lie about it when confronted. They steal fruit from our orchard in season. They have broken into our pioneer cabin and outbuildings. I have had to replace the signs at their point of entry so often that I took my ATV down there, backed it up to a tree, and stood on it, on my tippy toes and put a sign up on the tree as high as I could, so the bikers couldn't reach it to tear it down. Still, I have a stack of signs handy for when they tear down the old ones.

The trail leading into that end of the property is quickly deteriorating, as it used to be a road that was carved out of a steep mountainside. About 40 years ago the Forest service gated the other end of the road, and never gave the former owners of our place a key, despite repeated requests. The road fell into terrible disrepair, with much of it falling down the cliff, and trees and boulders falling on it. Now it is only passable on foot or mountain bike, and I am looking forward to the day when it is gone completely, since that is where 90% of our trespassers enter the property.

We ran multiple strings of nasty rusty old barbed wire across it. We tied colorful strips of plastic construction tape to it so that it is clearly visible and nobody hurts themselves, and by the time they get to the barbed wire fence they have had to lift their bike over fallen logs and gone past at least three NO TRESPASSING signs.

At the barbed wire fence I have a large hand painted sign telling them that this is not the bike trail, and gives them instructions on how to get back to their trail.

If I find them on the ranch beyond this point, it is obvious that they intended to trespass. I have no qualms about having them arrested for criminal trespass.

I photographed it in case someone enters my land and tries to sue me when they injure themselves, or one of my animals injures them. I don't know how much weight it would carry in court if I were sued, but I can prove that they knew they were trespassing, and that they had to pass not only numerous signs, but take extraordinary measures to get over the logs and through the barbed wire fencing for the purpose of trespassing.

I live in California, and my state has enacted stricter laws on trespassing on farms and ranches. Farm thefts are at an all time high, and all thefts start with trespassing. We had a 24' flatbed trailer stolen a while back. It was on our ranch, behind a locked gate. The only way the thieves even knew it was there was that they had to have trespassed earlier, and scoped out what they wanted to steal.

They cut the electric company's lock from our gate. They replaced it with a look-alike lock of their own, so they could come and go as they pleased. They even locked the gate behind them when they left! They had to bring a truck equipped with a goose neck hitch in the bed for our trailer.

Then, they returned two nights later, while we were there. They tried to steal our propane tanks from beside the house, and they probably had our trailer with them to haul them with! One of them tripped in the dark right outside our bedroom, and yelled out. They took off immediately. I woke DH. He got dressed in the dark and got the shotgun and went out to check it out, but they were gone by the time he got there.

In the morning we could see their tire tracks, and when I went to fix breakfast, the stove wouldn't light. I checked the propane tanks and they had been turned off. Probably in preparation for stealing the tanks.

I take trespassing very seriously. I confront trespassers, and if they don't sass off, I make them leave via the same way they entered. I don't let them cross the land to the other exit, because they have long used my ranch to cut a couple of miles off the bike trail. If they have to backtrack, then they have added that couple of miles back onto their trip, both directions. They are less likely to try to take a shortcut through my place if they know they may run into me!

If they do sass off, I take their picture and call the sheriff.

Several have gone back to the Forest Service to complain about me, and have even tried to have me arrested for running them off my land. At the Forest Service Ranger's office they have a large map of the National Forest under glass on the counter, and the trespasser will point out where the confrontation occurred. My place, like all of the other private property on the map is white, and National Forest land appears as green. The ranger explains to the bikers that they were trespassing on private land, and that even the Forest Service doesn't enter private land without an invitation from the owner or a warrant. They show them the actual bike path, which never touches my property at all.

The local sheriff is a friend. We have given him a key to our gate. We let him hunt bear at our ranch. He will also check out the place when he is in the area. He always calls to get permission to enter the ranch. He has confronted several trespassers at our place as well.

I feel that having the property well posted and fenced keeps out the honest folks, and offers me some protection from the dishonest ones.
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  #111  
Old 07/08/09, 06:49 PM
NorCalChicks's Avatar  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nevada
Posts: 485
Wow, this has been a very interesting topic! I think I've learned a few things
We've had a few unexpected visitors over the past year, they were all looking fo the previous owner who used to raised and sell goats. However we've let them know they missed him by about 4 years!
We are bordered by BLM land, which is great in some ways (the wild horses and elk visit often!), however the BLM has off-road trails all over up here, so during the warm months we are inundated with weekend warriors....sigh....oh well - it's still worth it!
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  #112  
Old 07/09/09, 12:31 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,143
Long time members (it's been a while since I've ranted on the topic of trespassing) know my mild feelings about trespassers. On the other hand, if the OP doesn't post his property, have a gate, etc. then I'm not particularly sympathetic.

I believe that one should respect other peoples privacy and property. If the folks regarding the puppies didn't show up in the appointed timeframe they should have called back to arrange another time. If they were in the area, wanted to see the puppies and nobody answered a loud "hello" on their arrival then they should have left immediately.

The ag chemical salesperson was not out of line if the property wasn't posted and had dealings with the previous owner.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike
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