question about trespassers

[QUOTE=TurnerHill;3892881]Many hunters do not post their own property. The tradition of open access to land is critical to the continuation of the sporting tradition in this country. And that sporting tradition is critical to the continued political viability of the Second Amendment. And the Second Amendment, I believe, is critical to the continued liberty of all Americans./QUOTE]

I assume then you have no problem when all the city hunters end up on your land to hunt because "it's open access".

When I first got my property, I was constantly running people off that had stopped to hunt or were hunting.

I was always given "Well I hunted here as a kid." "The previous owners let me hunt here." "I didn't know it was private property." . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sometimes you have to post your land to keep other hunters off so you are able to hunt yourself!!!!!!!!!

While I have given permission for people to hunt over the years, it then irks me when the following year they come back and hunt because apparently since you gave them permission once, they don't have to ask again.

Many people coming from the big cities seem to think unposted land is open for anyone to hunt without any permission.

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Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania

"Everything happens for a reason."

If the "SC" in your location means South Carolina, than the legal posting requirement is:

"When any owner or tenant of any lands shall post a notice in four conspicuous places on the borders of such land prohibiting entry thereon, a proof of the posting shall be deemed and taken as notice conclusive against the person making entry, as aforesaid, for the purpose of trespassing."

Which isn't really very burdensome.

Boy this sure rings a bell with me, I have a creek that runs through my land. People stop up on the road, where the low water bridge is, and walk down the creek to get on the gravel bar and jump off the ledge into the water. The gravel bar and ledge are my property and I have it posted all over and tell people all the time that they are on private property. They have the legal right to be in the water, but not on my land. When they leave, I'm the one who has to pick up their dirty dipers, beer cans, and styrofoam cups. They yell at me for asking them to get off my land. I hate them, they make me unable to use and enjoy my own land. I walk down there with my to pit/boxer crosses and so far, no one has stood up to me, but I'm sure one of these days they will. I understand about wanting to swim in the creek, but please stay off my land. When one of them breaks an ankle, who do you think they will sue ?????
P.J.

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given the oppurtunity, a cow will always take the wrong gate...Baxter Black
www.newdaydexters.com
Irish Dexter Cattle for sale..............

That's correct, I don't. That's what open access means. If a particular hunter abuses that priveledge, he will be barred.


In many if not most states, that is exactly what it means for land to be unposted. While I would appreciate the courtesy of someone asking permission, if I do not post my land according to the legal requirements, it is in fact open for anyone to hunt without permission.

The liability question is interesting, and like all property law questions, will probably depend on your state law.

In New Hampshire, landowners who allow open access are specifically protected from liability by statute.

You actually have MORE protection from lawsuits due to injuries if you allow access than if you don't.

That's just my state. Your mileage may vary.

I'm getting a kick out of all the posters acting as though I am saying things that are new and radical. This is how the law of trespass has worked in this country for 300 years, and in Britain (source of our law) for a thousand years before that.

The people proposing a radical new standard are the ones who assume access to land requires specific permission.

For Michael:

Bottom line is that in PA, you need to have posted signs every 50 feet around the entire perimeter of your property, or it is not posted. And if it is not posted, it is open for hunting.

Thank you TurnerHill

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He who thinks he knows, doesn't. He who knows he doesn't know, knows.~ Joseph Campbell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeMrK...AE7062ADE5A19C

Reminds me of a time I didn't have the property all fenced off & the neighbor kid was shooting arrows 10 feet away from my horse corrall.

I sat him down & had a little chat with him. He said the land wasn't posted no tresspassing, & I asked him if he was making payments on it. I told him in no uncertain terms he was tresspassing & if he accidently shoots one of my horses, there will be a major lawsuit involved.

I got to talking to him a bit, he said he was from belguim or sweden or france or whatever. He said his parent's basically ignore him, hes left alone all day & he just want's to figure out how to hunt rabbitts, & why did I have so many?

I told him they were wild rabbitts & they feed off horse hay. Then I told him where the feed store was & how much a bale cost & throw it in his back yard & happy hunting.

It was just weird, I think on one level he new he was tresspassing, & actually had the gual to tell me I don't own my own land, & I set him straight on that right away.
And his parents favorite past time is ditching him. I really got the feeling I was the only one that gave him the time of day, in quite awhile.

I told him if he needs to learn to hunt or talk come on by, they moved a month later

Poor Kid!

I think this discussion is really interesting. I had no idea that people could just come on our property without permission. It is a real shock, and my first instinct was to shout, "No way!"

As I think about it though, the laws are really old and the country was a lot different 200 years ago. There were huge areas of unowned land, but there were also huge ranches--often too large to be entirely fenced. There were less roads and people often traveled cross country, literally. So, they really wouldn't know if the land belonged to someone unless it was marked with a sign or fence. With such huge ranches, it was a given that folks almost had to cross the land to get anywhere, and since people actually hunted for food, rather than entertainment, land-owners included, it was easy to understand why no one would think the land-owners would mind people hunting. It also makes perfect sense that the government would make laws to protect the people's rights to hunt and travel.

In this day and age however, everyone, even little kids know that someone owns every bit of land in the United States, and they therefore know they shouldn't be on it. 99% of hunters are not hunting to feed their families--yes they may eat the meat--but the hunting is nowhere close to being their only source of food. Though with the hugely smaller tracts of land people own these days it is no longer at all unreasonable to expect everyone to post or fence all around their land, given our modern sensibilities it SHOULD be completely unnecessary.

Until the laws are changed, however, there will be those who will use those laws as excuses to act in entirely un-excusable ways.

Great discussion. I'm brand new to this forum and love it already.

Not so; in PA you need permission posted or not!

i know in maryland it is unlawful to hunt private land without written permission. as a resident of pa, i wish it were the same way.

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this message has probably been edited to correct typos, spelling errors and to improve grammar...

"All that is gold does not glitter..."

refer to the statements quoted by turnerhill in the above post...in turnerhill's original post...

it is odd that the hunter's digest states that someone who is trying to trail and retrieve wounded game must seek permission from the landowner.

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this message has probably been edited to correct typos, spelling errors and to improve grammar...

"All that is gold does not glitter..."

This has been a very interesting thread. I have been a victim of trespassers and guilty of unknowing trespassing my self this past spring. We have recently begun using the family property after a few years of inactivity following my father’s death. Numerous neighbors have had to be told to keep off the land with their four-wheelers, snowmobiles, deer stands etc. Their excuse is always that they heard “the land was abandoned” after the death of my father. It is legally posted and we are there almost every weekend but they really figure we won’t know what they do during the week.

On the other hand I recently found myself trespassing. After some experiencing some truck issues I decided to walk to a friend’s nearby farm for some help. To get there I needed to walk through a half mile of pasture and woods that separates our properties. For over forty years I have taken this shortcut (it would be about 3 miles if I stayed on the roads). Much to my surprise I came over a hill to find a farmstead that wasn’t there the last time I made the journey. I had two options, turn around and walk the long way or keep going. I made a point of shouting “hello” as I walked up to the farmstead, but there was no response. I kept walking making a point of staying as far away as possible so as not to appear to be sneaking around or casing the place. Suddenly my neighbor came out of the barn obviously annoyed. I apologized profusely, told him who I was and why I was on his property. Fortunately he calmed down, we talked for a while and he ended up offering me help with my truck. For all of the times I have run people off our property I felt awful for being the one who was trespassing. In the end I met a homesteading neighbor (he raises organic beef and chickens) who will probably end up being a friend when we move to the land in the coming years.

The tract of land I bought, the site I chose for my home, the long winding drive all reflect my appreciation for peace and privacy. I value good friends and neighbors, but even they should practice manners and consideration. The OP might find that my simple sign will suffice for him. Located close to the driveway entry, it informs a stranger that they are on PRIVATE PROPERTY and CALL XXX XXX XXXX FOR AN APPOINTMENT

Rude strangers and church ladies will have to hear my thoughts on bad manners. Prowlers and uptonogoodniks are taken seriously and treated like possible armed home invaders. I'm not spooked, I'm just realistic...Glen

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The more a man travels, acquires wisdom and learns about life, the more likely he is to marry a Country Girl.

Wrong. Check the statute and court decisions posted above.

Quite incorrect. Proper decorum for a sales man is to either

call and make an appointment

or

leave a business card so you can call and make an appointment

We have a push-pin by the door for just such an occasion.

Remember this

People on your property, invited or not, get hurt, they can and WILL sue you. Even if you win, it costs alot of money.

No, I'm not paranoid.

But there are a lot of people in our litigous society that are looking for a free reide, often at your expense.

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Roger

all the more reason for me to start putting up large signs.."target range, trespassers may be shot"

You quoted title 18; the hunting regulations are under title 34 and they clearly indicate that hunters must ask permission to enter and hunt private property, posted or not.

I spend alot of time on huntingpa.com and there are posters who are active and retired PA WCO and this topic has been debated exhaustively...

They also have extensive discussions regarding the willful trespass by ATV riders. Many talk about seeing every local teenager living on a one acre lot having his ATV to play with as mom & dad are commuting home from work.

There was a recient post reporting how the state police & WCO were arresting ATV riders trespassing on Consol Coal holdings.

Other trespassing 'Myths'

Posters need to be every 50 feet - not

Posters need to be 'signed' - not

The PA Game Commission even posts on-line maps of private properties in the 'open fields' program that allow anyone to hunt AFTER obtaining permission from the land holder.

PA has 1.5 million acres of State Game Lands [paid for by hunters] and almost the same acreage in State Forest Land [paid for by taxes] and over a million acres in the Allegheany National Forest and ALL of it is open to anyone...Non-hunting recreation on 'game' lands is only limited during hunting season, horse and Mtn bike riders are supposed to stay off woods roads & trails 'cept Sunday when hunting isn't allowed...this gets ignored alot too!

My family has a lease cabin site [since 1928] in the Delaware State Forest [one of over 4,000 leases across the state] where we own the building and pay around $200.00 a year. I grew up in the PA State Forest.

Problem in PA is enforcement. The WCO can only cite trespassing after a game violation; State Police are covering too much area to be effective & the penalty is a joke.

MD & OH require the hunter to have written permission in their possession.

Caught w/ out it in OH & you get fitted w/ nice chrome bracelets & get to tour the backseat of the PoPo car...

Title 34 violations are just that... violations.

Trespassing is a misdemeanor crime.