question about trespassers

I wouldn't dare walk around someones property when they weren't home and I would expect the same respect from someone coming to my property. The AG chem salesman could be borderline I suppose, but the puppy guys were way, way out of line

Interesting point made by starjj regarding the meter readers. I'm off grid, but all those I know with grid power have RF transmitter meters that only require the reader to be within several hundred feet of the meter to read it. And the one at my work transmits it's reading back over the grid to the sub-station automatically. Is this common elsewhere?

Is your land properly posted, according to your state's posting laws? Because if not, they're not "tresspassing."

It is amazing the number of people who don't understand this.

Interesting point about the curteledge whodunit. I was just discussing this with my criminal justice major son after a couple of kids were busted for fishing without a license on their private property. You are correct that law enforcement and delivery people can normally walk into your curteledge, but also your curteledge can give you the most protection for privacy from others as well. A law enforcement officer while in the line of duty legally tresspass on your property even if it is posted, but if your curteledge is gated and posted a law enforcement officer can't enter without a warrant or I guess a life threatening situation.

This applies to Alaska and California that I know of. I have no knowledge of other states. This legal status of your curteledge became know to me while living in Northern California where there was a large group of "ahem" herb farmers. In that case LEOs could tresspass looking for illegal herbs everywhere on your land, but not within the curteledge.

I don't think you are too touchy. You are responsible for the safety of your family. You need to be aware of who is out there. If your 'creep' meter is going off - you listen to it.

I think this also depends on the set up of your place. I have a driveway back to my barn. THere is absolutely NO reason anyone needs to be in my back yard if they are looking for me. Maybe in your situation someone would have to walk through the back yard to get to your barn.

HOnestly though, I think the people you have described need some lessons in personal safety - they are being pretty stupid to go onto someone property without the owner being home. Stupid.

Well, for honest type folks like the ag-salesman you can rig up a large bell with a clapper and a sign that tells folks to ring for assistance. It is like a giant doorbell for your whole place.
For me.. I 'halloe the house' if I am walking up to anyone's place.. even if I am invited.
A good strong holler to let folks know I am there.
I just think laying on the car horn is rude...

And Common Tater... I am just not sure what I would have done about the guy walking in... he may have had to try to press asault charges against me. My 'fight or flight' is a little unbalanced in some situations.

__________________
http://www.thehennery.blogspot.com -
the farm blog
http://thehennerytraditionals.blogspot.com/ -
the herbal blog + shop

I'd say that sums it up well...

It depends on who the person is that is coming on the property. If it is a friend and knows you stay out back and it appears that you are home, like cars or truck there , then yep it might be ok. If it is a total stranger then he has no reason to go past knocking on my door. I also get up tight with people going where they do not belong. Sam

It is customary here to arrive, knock, and if you receive no answer, open the door and shout "hello the house!" If there is no answer many places do have an outside, very loud, bell... it is polite to ring it and wait several minutes (so someone can get back from a far corner of the property). There are exceptions: traveling packs bearing religious tracts are not welcome to open doors. My mail person won't open a door, nor will the UPS guy.

But I live in a tourist area, smack next door to a large resort, and it isn't unusual for someone to cross boundaries for whatever reason; innocent, stupid, curious, they'll wind up where they should not be. How I deal with that depends on whether or not they're endangering themselves or my stock, my mood, and how they act. Oh.. and their age. Little kids who run up to the fence to see the sheep I've bellowed at very harshly.. but that's an electric fence and either I bellow or they get zapped. Anyone over the age of 65 gets a free pass, they're usually lost, or lived in the area as a child.

People my age.. the 40-60 crowd? I'm not so nice. For some reason these can be the most aggressive, least safety conscious, most "entitled," as a group. They've got a "we paid for a hotel room so we're entitled to do anything we want" attitude which is seriously annoying. And explains target shooting on a nice Saturday afternoon. Nothing says "obey the signs" like large caliber gunfire.

__________________
Icelandic Sheep and German Angora Rabbits

ihuntgsps

That is one of the reasons we totally fenced in our 11 acres and put a electric gate in the drive way.

I came home once to find someone had picked all my green beans.
Kids were fishing in the pond without permission
2 of my dogs disappeared (neighbor said they bit the bumper of her car AS she was driving down the road they were gone shortly after that)
Neighbors ducks were helping themselves to my garden

A fence put a stop to all of that.

Nancy

__________________
A small Goat farm in East Tennessee
http://www.freewebs.com/rockytopsis/

Geez I had so many experiences, I can totally relate to you. Sitting in my treestand(bowhunting), I had some moron come up and scream at me that I was trespassing-on my land??? What an idiot, and I felt afraid to talk as then he would realize that I was a woman,but let him know just what I thought. I lived on lakefront, had a woman open my gate, put her paddle boat in my yard to use as she liked. Not good when I have Rotties.When I got this place,brought up a big broom and some plants, came back and they were gone. Told the x-owner and she said she knew who it was.Broom came back but not the plants. 3 times now a woman and a boy have tryed to come onto my land in a truck, once thru the back field. Guess they felt like going "shopping". I will be putting fence across the front,mostly to keep the Rotties in the yard, but Noone arround here would come in with them in the yard. Glad noone just took one of your puppies.

Oh ya, a good one. My real estate agent told me; lived on a lake, came home one day to find strangers on his deck- cooking on his grill.

I have a story for all of you about people/salesman just showing up:

A friend of mine was out in her massive yard (here DH was behind the house working) and two guys pulled up in a white minivan. They parked at the end of her driveway and walked up the rest of the way. She had been cleaning beds and trimming so she was pretty grimy (her words). This was at 8 pm. One of the guys asked to speak to the owner of the house, she said that's me. He proceeded to ask if she had an alarm system as they worked for ADT. The guy was actually carrying an ADT sign that you stick in the ground.
Her DH came around the corner of the house, finished the conversation by telling them they were heavily alarmed and so where the neighbors. He then sent them on their way.

Numerous things were wrong with this scenerio.... 1 - ADT doesn't send out scouts, 2. They don't bring you a "Sign". It's put in the ground after the system has been installed. I know because we use ADT. 3. Their white van had no ADT markings - probably why they didn't pull all the way up to the house. And finally - they had no business cards or identification.

This just happened last week, so it pays to be careful even if you think it's a salesperson. These guys were just out scouting the neighborhoods and had a minivan to fill with their "haul".

__________________
"I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mitt on both hands; you need to be able to throw some things back..." Maya Angelou

Thank you very much for your replies. I do feel better about my angry reaction to the people that helped themselves to walking my yard and playing with my pups while I was away. I wish I could convince myself to be more trusting of random stranger wandering my property and hoping that they all have good intentions.With the news I hear everyday of thefts, violent crimes, etc. I doubt that will ever happen though.
I have never, and would never, be angry about a neighbor or friend showing up unnanounced and walking out back to try to find me if I wasn't in the house.
I do not have my property posted and my feeling is I shouldn't have the need to. I do not wish to live beind gates/fences/multiple no trespassing and beware of dog signs. Hopefully I can find a way to keep unwanted people off my place without feeling like I live in a compound or make my neighbors feel I am an antisocial nutjob.

That's completely unfair. It is the law in every state that you post no trespassing signs on your property. You can't say I don't want anybody to trespass but I am not going to give them any warning that I don't want them to do so. If you don't have the signs or markings they have every right to assume it's OK to visit or if there is no fence or markings how are they supposed to know what's your property?

It is literally, legally, true that if the land is not posted, they are not trespassing. Trespassing is defined as unlawful entry on the lands of another. Key word there is "unlawful."

Unless you have told a specific individual they are not allowed, they can assume they are allowed absent legally sufficient posting.

My question is not about what is legal but what is right, normal,customary,
etc.
I understand that unless they actually do something illegal while on my property, or if they are told to not be there, they are not trespassing. I also know that I could come to someone's home in town and lay on the lawn chair in their backyard and have it be legal....that still would not make it the right or normal thing to do.
A question was asked about "how would they know they were on my land"
My property is rectangular and the back and sides are 5 strand barbed wire fencing for my pastures. the frontage is the road with no fences directly in front of my home or driveway. manicured lawn with landsacping/etc. clearly not part of the open prairie ground so should not confuse anyone.
Hope this clear up some confusion.

Random strangers wandering around my property don't have good intentions, and they are a liability. If they injure themselves, they can, and probably will sue you.

At the very least, you should post your property very well. You don't say where you live, so we can't address posting requirements where you live.

I am in California, and here, you should be posted not less than three signs per mile. This page from the California Farm Bureau Federated (your state may also have a farm bureau) explains it. http://www.cfbf.com/agalert/AgAlertS...461063F4AC58A6

We only have 42 acres and it is posted much better, gated and we still have a huge problem with trespassers. Our place had sat vacant for years before we bought it, and the people who trespassed before we bought it viewed us as nuisances when suddenly they were denied access. We have found large groups in our orchard, stealing fruit. We have also found illegal aliens stealing fruit, and stealing our buckets to carry it in. The neighboring church camp that used to own our ranch had a man working for them that used to tell his campers to hike over to our ranch. I asked him many times not to send strangers over. I explained that they no longer owned our place and that the orchard is now commercial. We would hear voices and have to drop everything to investigate. What a nuisance, and what a liability! They would have their kids swimming in our pond by the time we could reach them. We would have been held liable if one of the kids had drowned, despite the fact that they had squeezed through our fencing and walked past several "No Trespassing" signs to get there. We have had our pioneer cabin tagged with gang graffiti. We had a 24' flatbed trailer stolen by thieves that cut the electric company lock on our gate, and replaced it with their own look-alike lock so they could continue to come back and steal at will.

I don't understand your aversion to posting your property, but I do know that it offers some level of legal protection.

__________________
I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam.

Popeye

You don't want trespassers, but you have no signs up? That doesn't make much sense.

If you truly don't want anyone coming onto your property, put up "No Trespassing" signs at the beginning of your driveway and every so often around your property. A "No Trespassing" sign should keep the majority of people off - for those who don't pay attention to them, you can "lose it" on them.

A "No Soliciting" sign at your driveway entrance should keep any salesmen away.

For the people who came to your house about the puppies, THEY were in the wrong.

For the Ag Chemical salesman - while it does seem a bit odd that he hasn't been around for the 2 years since you've owned the property - most ag salesmen can expect a farmer to NOT be in his house, and it's not "rude" for them to go searching for the farmer in the misc. outbuildings he has.

If you truly want to be left alone - PUT UP SIGNS! After 2 years, your friends and neighbors should still feel welcome to come around - any stranger will think twice before coming on your property. As for the puppies, you need to start telling potential buyers on the phone when you set up an appointment you expect them to show up, and if they can't make it, they call and make another appointment rather than just stopping by.

GoatsRus - your neighbor should have escorted them off of his property by walking them back to their van where he could have gotten their license plate number. A call to the police to report it could help solve a robbery real quick in your area.

__________________
Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania

"Everything happens for a reason."

Many hunters do not post their own property. The tradition of open access to land is critical to the continuation of the sporting tradition in this country. And that sporting tradition is critical to the continued political viability of the Second Amendment. And the Second Amendment, I believe, is critical to the continued liberty of all Americans.

I don't post my land because I love my country.

Although I think it makes sense to post, not all states require posting. In many states and jurisdictions the fact that a property is fenced infers the owners intent to limit access and it does not need to be posted. Hunting regulations are even more convoluted in some places. In Alaska its implied that all land is accessible unless posted and you have to post the name of the owner and a contact number so that someone can request access.

I think the OP is perfectly reasonable by being upset, I currently live in suburbia and have no soliciting signs and still get bothered. I not so gently inform some of these people what no soliciting means (including religious groups)...though I do have a soft spot for kids and have about a 5 year supply of popcorn and cookies.