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  #41  
Old 06/29/09, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VERN in IL View Post
Exactly, I have always been under the impression that owning land is Illegal, outside of the Castle Doctrine, you have no right to restrict who or what comes upon your land if as long as no destruction is being done.

I am also convinced that the majority of our land, is STOLEN, that it really belongs to the Natives and the enviroment that we robbed it from.............................................. .................................

Really can anyone here answer this question, why should we own land if:
1. It's stolen from it's rightful owners
2. Can be taken away and given to a company that increases $$$ revenue.
.................................................. .................
I dont think you quite understand "ownership" ownership is simply the right to defend something aginst others.
Rethink your thoughts of ownship using the word defend in place of own and it will all make more scense.

Last edited by fantasymaker; 06/29/09 at 08:40 AM.
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  #42  
Old 06/29/09, 09:03 AM
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There actually are areas of the country where most of the land in the area has to be rented from the Native Americans.

I don't believe for a second that you can draw a valid comparison between what Indians did to one another and what the white people did to them. We robbed them of their culture as best we could, hooked them on fire water, gave them smallpox infected blankets to wipe them out, lied to them and broke our treaties with them.

If there are areas where the land was legally purchased from the Native Americans, my suggestion is to move there or to a place where you can rent from them.

And it isn't fair to say that all NA tribes were hunters and gatherers...some stayed more or less in one place and farmed.

To the crackpot who thinks Christians should be able to kill off all non-Christians, I hope you're being satirical. If not, you need to get back on your meds, dude.
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  #43  
Old 06/29/09, 09:41 AM
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I ditto helianthus
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  #44  
Old 06/29/09, 09:54 AM
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What do you think, the American Indians were one big happy socialist organization with the stronger tribes taxing themselves to help the weaker ones? Those territories exchanged hands too, by conquest, one tribe over another. Exactly the same way that it happened in Europe, Asia, The middle east, Africa. You'll have to look back further than just the existing tribes when we got here, if you want to be really honest. And, do you think those ancient Indians just sprang up here, intact? they came from somewhere. Do we find the first Indian and give the whole country to his descendants? What if they got killed in the first hostile takeover?
Every inch of habitable land in the world has been fought over and "stolen" over and over. Yet, some people think that "we" should feel guilty. Its the way it's always been done, whether you like it or not.
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  #45  
Old 06/29/09, 10:04 AM
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I have a drop of NA blood, so I'm cool now...I can ethically own land right?!
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  #46  
Old 06/29/09, 10:12 AM
 
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I reckon we should all move back to the countries our forefathers came from and let the Kudzu take over! After all, the land did belong to nature first didn't it?
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  #47  
Old 06/29/09, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RosewoodfarmVA View Post
I reckon we should all move back to the countries our forefathers came from and let the Kudzu take over! After all, the land did belong to nature first didn't it?
The Kudzu would have to go back home, too.

The reason to own land is that it gives you more control over the property than you would, otherwise.

The legality of owning title to a property has evolved over history. The definition of land ownership continues to evolve in American courts. Needless to say, owning a piece of land does not give you total freedom to do whatever you like with that property. There are still regulations and restrictions that limit that land's use.

Whether or not our current system of laws is just could be debated 'til we all fell over. Land is taken, everywhere in the world, through war or encroachment. Eventually, the courts sort it all out.
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  #48  
Old 06/29/09, 10:33 AM
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Seems to me that God of the Bible required the Israelites to go out and conquer a certain portion of land that God wanted them to own and live on..most if not all nations purchased their land with blood. Some nations chose to share, peacefully the land they had and they coexisted with no war.

You can't just say that about Americans..it happened everywhere. My husband is 1/4 Cherokee..so that means we have a right to own land and no one else does???? hogwash

Should people not be allowed to own land because they abuse the land..also hogwash...look at New york city..talk about land abuse..any city !!

How high and mighty do we think we are to be able to judge what another person can or cannot do, under God? Judge not least you be judged..

We own land, we maintain and use our land..not always in ways other people think is right, but it is between us and our God.
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  #49  
Old 06/29/09, 11:14 AM
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Everyone is just leasing the land they call their's. DOnt think so, just do pay your lease bill (taxes) and see if you dont loose it.
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  #50  
Old 06/29/09, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
What exactly is your point, except for trolling?
And why would you be on a homesteading board if you really feel this way?
Something just not clicking here.
This IS what Vern does, he makes a whacky rant post and runs away while people take him seriously and try to set him straight to which he never replies. The man venerates Charles Manson and eats his boogers(his own, not Charles Manson's, and that is by his own statements, I'm not making it up).
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  #51  
Old 06/29/09, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by texican View Post
Sounds like the philosophy of a hobo. Or the mindset of the entitlement class. Why work? when someone else will feed you? Why build a home, ..... you get the point.

As far as the definition will go, mortal men (and women) can 'own' land as long as their alive. Dead people have no more use for their possessions. Every atom on this planet has been recycled countless times, born in the death of a supernova'ed star.

Free men own land... peasants do not. I'd rather be a free man, personally.

As long as civilization exists, my title is good. If civilization falls, I'll only hold onto that part which I can forcefully hold.

Whats the point of owning anything (literally)... because someone can come along and steal it?
What is the point of owning anything if somone has the RIGHT to take it? I look at land owners, and I feel they have a unreasonable expectation that they OWN the land, and it can never be taken away.

Here is a issue that I am mainly concerned about:
Quote:
I was forced to sell my home after 23 years. I could not pay the taxes. $2000 per year. I don't have kids in school and I refuse to pay for your kids to get Golf and Tennis lessons free. I also refuse to pay for your kids sports. In Ohio they took $40 million from public schools and gave it to private schools. The Neocons call it vouchers. In fact it's redistribution of my wealth. I will never pay school tax again in my lifetime. My property Taxes went up 5 times over 10 years under Republicans in the State.
See what I'm saying, the fact is "if" you own something, you worked hard to get it, why pay more when it's already paid for? Don't pay it, they take it away!

About the only way I see to be right, is community living, where everyone works and runs the community. Organized at a 5013c, you don't have to pay taxes, but they still can take your land to build a casino.

I read that some of you make the point that eniment domain you get paid fair market value.... so what happens if you put thousands in your land and the housing market collapses?
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  #52  
Old 06/29/09, 10:22 PM
 
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To listen to the crickets and watch the lightning bugs
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  #53  
Old 06/29/09, 10:35 PM
 
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I always figured that the best reason to buy land was because they aren't making any more of it.

Worked for Will Rogers, works for me.
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  #54  
Old 06/29/09, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VERN in IL View Post

I read that some of you make the point that eniment domain you get paid fair market value.... so what happens if you put thousands in your land and the housing market collapses?
Wow Vern I stand corrected! you replied! you are lucid tonite!

the above is just called bad luck. THat's why you need to keep a finger to the wind. My grandpa built a house, lived in it 20+ years, loved it, but knew from scuttlebutt that the airport was going to buy out houses to demolish for runway buffers. He SOLD the house for a great price, and sure enough, two years later the buyer had to take what the airport gave them, which was quite a loss. Was Grandpa sneaky? yeah! but all this goes under having your cake and eating it too--the way our country is set up you just gotta know how to work it, and if you expect things to stay the same forever, they just aren't.
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  #55  
Old 06/29/09, 10:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kritter8888 View Post
To listen to the crickets and watch the lightning bugs
..... yep and don't forget cloud pictures!
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  #56  
Old 06/30/09, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Pony View Post
I always figured that the best reason to buy land was because they aren't making any more of it.

Worked for Will Rogers, works for me.
Don't forget, Will Rogers was half Indian, and believed in buying land.

Some Indians believed in selling land too. We have all heard about Manhattan Island being sold by the Indians for $24.00. Other large parcels of land were also sold by the Indians. While there were certainly conquests and lands taken, there were also purchases for which the former owners were compensated.
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  #57  
Old 06/30/09, 12:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Shygal View Post
You're kidding, right? Tongue in cheek, leg pulling, that sort of thing?
Not kidding on how the nation was founded as that is the truth. Sarcastically kidding about killing our non-christian neighbors for their land and turning them into slavery. Just saying that throughout Biblical history it has always been alright to wipe out a race of people who doesn't believe in God/Jesus, so long as you do it in his name. The Isralites done it and the early European pilgrams did it to the native tribes as well. The only tribe that fared fairly well were the Cherokee people. The Cherokee people adopted the Christianity into their social life and became very wealthy people while living in the applachine moutains. Then the whites removed the Cherokees and sent them to Oklahoma territory. To this day the Applachine mountains has been a curse to the people who now live their. When you steal from a Christian you place a curse upon yourself. The Cherokees are doing great again, while the people of the applachines remain poor.
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  #58  
Old 06/30/09, 12:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Common Tator View Post
Don't forget, Will Rogers was half Indian, and believed in buying land.

Some Indians believed in selling land too. We have all heard about Manhattan Island being sold by the Indians for $24.00. Other large parcels of land were also sold by the Indians. While there were certainly conquests and lands taken, there were also purchases for which the former owners were compensated.
Most of the time when a tribe sold part of its land it was because of heavy pressure from the white government. They purty much knew that if they didn't sell it, they would be killed and drivin off the land anyway.

What's that fancy word use when a race of people are drivin and killed from off their land? Genocide?
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  #59  
Old 06/30/09, 03:29 AM
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Well the way I look at it,is this,If my land was stolen from the native Americans,I had absolutely nothing to do with it,so how can they blame me,when I wont even born then,just like African-Americans blaming all the folks that are white,for slavery. I WON"T HERE THEN,WHY BLAME ME! EB
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  #60  
Old 06/30/09, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Oldcountryboy View Post
Not kidding on how the nation was founded as that is the truth. Sarcastically kidding about killing our non-christian neighbors for their land and turning them into slavery. Just saying that throughout Biblical history it has always been alright to wipe out a race of people who doesn't believe in God/Jesus, so long as you do it in his name. The Isralites done it and the early European pilgrams did it to the native tribes as well. The only tribe that fared fairly well were the Cherokee people. The Cherokee people adopted the Christianity into their social life and became very wealthy people while living in the applachine moutains. Then the whites removed the Cherokees and sent them to Oklahoma territory. To this day the Applachine mountains has been a curse to the people who now live their. When you steal from a Christian you place a curse upon yourself. The Cherokees are doing great again, while the people of the applachines remain poor.
The founders of this nation wrote a brand new constitution. They had every opportunity to make it a Christian theocracy if that had been their goal: It was not.

Many of them had felt persecution from state-sanctioned religions. They fully understood the value of each person's freedom to choose how he or she might worship, or not worship, for that matter.

You are also free to hold what ever religious or political belief you choose. However, in my opinion, those who justify the deaths or theft from others who hold beliefs different from their own are no better than al Qaeda or the Taliban. I don't believe any god that is just condones selfish actions in his name.

And anyone who calls them self a Christian should not ignore the entire New Testament and the words of Jesus. He did not teach persecution of nonbelievers.
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