How much is enough?

Frankly, I think there is some bad advice in the above posts.

I have 16 acres, but only about 5 is cleared. There is PLENTY of room in five or even three acres for what you are proposing, unless you plan to raise all of the horse's feed yourself. If you are willing to buy hay and grain, there is no earthly reason why anyone needs 10 acres for a single horse.

And "bigger is better" is generally bad advice for those getting on in years. Too much land will drain you, physically, emotionally, and financially.

Well, in MI we had 20 acres and barely used the back field. Here in MO we have 120 acres and there are parts so rugged we haven't ventured to hike them. Probably be carried away by ticks/chiggers. We use about 30 acres between 20 acres of pasture,corrals,barns,orchard and gardens. Another portion has mowed trails for walking out to the bee yard. Since our yearly taxes are around $350 for property/school taxes it doesn't cost us much to have all this land surrounding us. We've always had horses but lived in areas where there were miles of trails to ride on state/federal land. If you are too close to the city traffic would make this dangerous--one major reason we moved to the Ozarks as where we lived in MI was getting too built up. DEE

I never thought about miniatures horses, though I should have. We have friends here on the edge of town that have some and we go visit to see them once in a while. I'm not sure about the girls not having horses big enough to ride, but since my oldest is pretty stout I think she'd need a pretty hefty horse. I just asked her about the little horses and she wasn't opposed to them. Might be just the ticket. I like the cart idea because then I could have a ride. I'm not afraid of the little horses.

Nomad

just to add I just bought 5 acres and independence and it's a GREAT book! cheap too, only $8 at Borders (not including a coupon)

We too had the issue of low down and needed no bank financing. I found a guy in north Florida Jim Jean realty and they're whole bit is all owner financed, 995 down and 20 yrs at 8% so 245 a month. We got 5.3 acres for $30k no prepayment penalty and we got in on a sale w/no closing costs too. we didn't really want to stay in FL but at least we found something farther out from the city. Around the outskirts of tampa i saw a sign for 2.8 acres for a mere $299,999! no there aren't extra 9's

actually our little bit of land was "reduced" because a good portion is wooded and low lying...what they see default is our incentive!

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Crystal

Mom of 5 ages 8 and under in a Unitarian, Military, Homeschooling family in the city.
www.solidityofrainbows.blogspot.com

Lots of land. That would be nice I think. One of the reasons, and I sort of mentioned it with my peace and quiet comment, is I don't want neighbors right next to me. I might as well stay in town if I want that. And your taxes are incredible to me. The house we owned last year in a crappy dying town had taxes of over $1200 for a 45' x 105' lot. Hey, maybe I'll just move to the part of your land that is too rugged for you to go to. I promise you'd never know we're there. Sounds like you're pretty happy there and I'm glad to hear it. I've lived a fair bit of time and have had the yearning to move back to the country. It's been 44 years and I'm pretty ready to go.

Nomad

After some real world life experience my outlook on "how much land is enough" has indeed changed. I used to be of the mindset that more is better and you should "buy it while you can" even if you see no direct need for it at the time. It's the whole, "they are not making anymore of it", "it will never be less expensive" etc.

Now that I've owned several pieces of property of varying acreage, two rural, one suburban, and now fully understanding the total cost of ownership I am no longer a fan of buy more. The total cost of ownership over time must be considered. The taxes may 'seem' low at time of purchase but they tend to grow over time, sometimes at an exceptional rate. The rules and regulations on what you can and cannot do with the property often grow in complexity and restrictions over time as well.

AG, forest, and wetland type tax exemptions are the only way many people can afford some acreage and many counties are putting the clamps on approving these exemptions because they are strapped for money and view the exemptions as something nice to do for the residents but also as leaving revenue on the table. Revenue that they many times desperately need. In addition they are putting the screws to people who have long standing exemptions and folks have to play all kinds of games to maintain these exemptions. In our county if you are kicked out of the exemption program or quit the program you have to pay 7 years of back-taxes at the current tax rate.

And finally, there is your retirement years to think about. Many states have property tax breaks for Seniors, but in most cases it limits the amount of acreage that is allowed for the break. I believe it is 5 acres in my state. Without these tax breaks many many seniors would literally be taxed out of their homes. There are many seniors now who are 'land rich' but cash poor. They may have a net worth of X, but they can't afford to buy groceries every week. Remember that land is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, and in times of economic stagnation or downturn many times there is nobody willing to pay anything for your land.

I realize your question was more targeted towards how much land is needed to run a homesteading type lifestyle, but I just wanted to point out that considering a long term plan is often helpful in making these types of decisions as well.

There are a few caveats I suppose:

- you may live in a remote enough place that regulations are not a concern. Just be careful about assuming it will always be this way.

- you may hit the timing just right and be able to sell your land at peak value during the economic cycle. Again, be careful about assumptions here as well.

- you may be in a stable long-term income situation that you can really afford the total cost of ownership of X amount of acreage. If that is the case then all this can be disregarded.

Wayne

I have three sisters and a brother living in Florida, one sister in Tampa. I don't think the rental trailer she lives in cost quite that much. I had thought about moving to Florida because of family but I was outvoted. Nobody in the family likes the climate. Since we've been in the midwest all of our lives, I guess we'll be staying with a climate we're familiar with. Although it does seem to be changing. How is the ground where you are for growing food? My mother lived in Dade City and she couldn't even grow grass in her yard. I'd never seen ground like that before.

Nomad

Excellent post. Things to look into and think about. My goal in addition to just having the few things I've mentioned is to leave a place for my girls. I have very little and I want them to have something. I know they will use the place a lot longer than I will. After my bypass surgery in February I know I'm mortal and may not be around a real long time. So I pray to be able to just have a little bit of country living once more before I have to go. So most of what I will do is aimed at what they will need or want. I admit it would be much easier if it was just the wife and I, but we have the two girls and they need to be thought of. Maybe if they weren't teenagers with old parents they would have time to do all of this by themselves, but it didn't work out that way.

Nomad

I drive a Haflinger and a mini. The Haffie can definitely pull more passengers and things, but the mini is a lot more fun. They aren't for everyone, but I think there's something special about the little guys. (And, he produces a lot less manure.)

I want any land that touches mine!

You ever play the game "Risk"? It seems that as you would acquire more land you would still want the next bit that was touching yours. Eventually you would own the entire world. Now that's a fair bit to raise a horse on.


Nomad

"Eventually you would own the entire world"

Yep...and I would have no neighbors!

When I was growing up we lived on 2.2 acres of land in ky with my great grand mother. For the most part the .2 acre area was used for her garden of (guesstimation) about 12' by 25' ish area, a very tiny house with 1 technical bedroom and 1 make-shift bedroom out of half the living room, a 2 car garage and a play house. The other 2 acres sat empty for most of my life but back in the day they had pigs and such. But when I became I teen-ager I got into riding horses and eventually bought one of my own and the 2 acres worked out fine for me.

I've looked it up and 2 acres is actually pretty standard for 1 single horse (add 2 more acres for each other horse after). And though we did not rotate our area it really is best to section the 2 acres into 1 acre areas and then for 4 months in the spring have the horse in 1 half and then for 4 months in the fall have it in the other half and then for 4 months during winter when there is no growth you will have to buy hay to feed during that time. Also you will need to build a run-in shed.

Since you said your girls are teenager you may want to think about how into horse back riding they really are. You may want to start with lessons or leasing a horse (sometimes the lease comes with lessons) and then if they decide they don't like horses (or just the responsibility) as much as they thought you won't have a horse you will have to try to sell and if you can't sell it you are stuck paying for the feed because with most things these days the market for horses is down and they are very hard to sell.

That sounds so nice.

Nomad

I can't afford lessons. If it comes down to it, I suppose we could eat the horse(s). As I said before, this is all on the girls. They pay for the horse(s) and the upkeep or they don't get to have any. Knowing that may change their minds before the time to do it happens.

Nomad

You'll always want more than you have. Get as much land as you can afford, you won't be sorry. If you have too much land, you can sell some, but if you don't have enough, it's often impossible to buy connecting land to expand your holdings.

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You ever play the game "Risk"? Eventually you would own the entire world. Now that's a fair bit to raise a horse on.
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Not only that, but you would own the wild herds of horses and could have your pick from them. Get tired of a particular color or breed and just turn it loose for another.

I don't think anyone here likes the climate either LOL

Its funny we're in the city, i mean CITY like downtown practically and I dropped seeds outside on accident and they sprouted lol didn't even bury them! Our soil is BLACK and very rich though in other parts not so much. Our house is in a historic district built in 1920's. Now the land in Gainesville is a mystery it used to be a sod farm so i'm assuming at least grass grew there lol. But i do my veggie gardening in raised beds and earth boxes mainly because we won't be here too much longer, maybe another 6 months and i want to do as little as I need to when we move. Drought is a toughy on my green babies and I've gone to using homemade earth boxes to keep them green and the soil moist otherwise everything just fries. We're on water restriction (we'll rectify that with water barrels and grey water on our land) and can only water between 12 and 4 AM and by hand and my lazy butt isn't getting up to do it. So i do the earthboxes and water once a week or so.

Also when we get rain, it rains. no sissy rain either. we had thunder last night that i swear probably cracked a window the house vibrated so bad. Everything was just drenched so the earth boxes help there too by leaking out the excess waters.

__________________
Crystal

Mom of 5 ages 8 and under in a Unitarian, Military, Homeschooling family in the city.
www.solidityofrainbows.blogspot.com

i think 5 acres is a good place to start..

Some people do what is called a "feed lease" where you feed the horse as your payment for riding it and since the girls are willing to pay for the feed anyways that may be a good idea for them. OR You can sometimes find local barns that will let them ride in exchange for cleaning the stalls and if it's not worth it to them to have to clean the stalls to ride then they shouldn't get a horse. Or sometimes you can find people who simply don't have time for their horses and will let other people ride the horse simply for an excuse for the horse to get out of the stall and exercise.

I just know a lot of girls go through a horse back riding phase where they want a horse and to go riding but then when they realize how much responsability is it they don't want to put in the time that a horse requires. Or they simply just lose interest and then here these people are stuck with a horse that no one rides but you still have to feed it. I just think it's best to do a trial run with such a big hobby as horse back riding.

I think the mini thing could be a good idea but I know nothing about minis but ideally even if the girls kind of fade on their interest in driving the cart you could always still use the mini to pull a cart full of veggies you just picked so you yourself don't have to carry them around (You did say you weren't in good health right?). Just some ideas.