Why you SSS trespassing dogs

I certainly can understand your frustration concerning the specific situation you referred to. I would likely feel the same way you do if faced with that situation.

Your initial post sounded like any dog that happens to wander across your property is going to be killed on the spot.

That is the attitude that I take issue with.

The day I drove the first truckload of stuff to our then new home I had to deal with a seemingly not very friendly but pretty good sized dog that didn't want to let me get to the front door. Darn thing growled at me and didn't even move when I growled back. I set down on a box and had a little talk with him and he eventually sidled off down the driveway.

Turns out that he lived in that house with the folks that owned it before the folks we bought it from did. They left him there (with a neighbor) but he still thought it was his place to watch out for. We gained a respect for each other and he was always hanging around. I miss that old boy.

I'm sure glad I didn't shoot him when he growled at me as I was trying to get in the house I had just bought.

Dh didn't hesitate to shoot the dog that killed dd's duck. Still looking for the owner of that one, they owe us some big $$$. He also shot the dog he caught attacking my rabbits in cages. We know that owner, have kept quiet about it. He also shot another dog roaming the yard after it had been picked up by animal control 3 times. It's owners frequently went away and left it and another dog outside with free access to the neighborhood(no fences on their property). The other dog now stays home.

airotciv, I personally use a .22 long rifle with hollow points for my animal control. It's a good choice if you can hit your target. I also use a .22 revolver with the same long rifle hollow point bullets. So far all I've had to shoot are groundhogs and raccoons with either. For cats I use the pellet gun. I've had to shoot a lot of cats. I won't tolerate livestock killers, even if it's my own animals. And yes, we did give the owners a heads up. They had a 7 year old and 4 year old child talk to us. Wouldn't even come to the door.

I do have a funny dog story to tell though. My close neighbors have Pomeranians. The poms don't usually look at the ducks. But the one young one loved to walk through the middle of the flock to get to the back edge of them then would bark and herd all the ducks back home! It was soooo cute and funny. This little pom wasn't near as big as a Muscovy drake but he wouldn't tolerate the ducks being in his yard (with the owner's permission, they wanted the bug control). He would chase them home and go to the nearest person wagging his tail and lolling his tongue waiting for his praise for saving the yard from those big hissing monsters. I would never shoot that dog, never ever! I even thought about borrowing him a few times. He never bit, never charged, he was the best herding dog I have ever seen. And he hadn't been trained to do it.

I have many problems with the pitt mixes:
1. I don't trust them, they are not familiar with me and the owners have never made an effort to get them familiar with the neighbors.
2. The attack on the black person in New York. So it's ok to let your dog attack someone over their skin color????? The little 4 year old across the street is black, I'd shoot those dogs if they ever looked cross-eyed at her.
3. The owners think they are above the law. Ohio has a control law, you can't just let your dogs out and go inside and shut the door.
4. They have enough of a yard to roam without coming into mine.
5. They leave huge piles of poo everywhere.
6. In all truthfulness I guess it's just the owners I have the problem with. If you're going to have any dog take care of it. That's all I ask.

If I had a problem with the poms coming over and tearing stuff up (will never happen, their owners rarely let them out of their sight) or if I had a problem with another neighbors collies all I have to do is tell them and they will take care of it. With either neighbor if you say "I have a problem with your dog" one of the parents is RIGHT there. They don't tell a 7 year old child to find out what's going on.

At any rate, the dogs stayed home this morning. We'll see how long they stay home. They were kept home for a month after the third visit from animal control.

Hooligan, I have taken home more dogs than dh has shot. The ones I know get taken straight home, after some playing and head scratching. Ones I don't know but can approach get tied out front while we do a quick search for owners. The boy across the street knows everyone's dogs. If we can't find the owner they get picked up by animal control. If I can't approach it and I know where it belongs but the dog seems unfriendly it gets chased home and the owners notified. They always come back, sometimes a dozen or more times. That is what I have a problem with.

It sounds like your buddy was a pretty cool dog. I have known precious few like that.

It used to be that any strange dog on the property was under death threat.
Yes I know your lovely little pup wouldnt hurt anything.
Yes I know you love your dogs like kids.
Nope I dont care at all. Not one tiny bit.
You see I figger if you really cared about your animal you would take steps to keep them under control.
Back then I had some lovely sheep and rabbits. Great little ol ladys of the animal kindom.
Your "Harmless" pets mear preasonce could be enough to kill them or cause them to kill their babies. Did you know that? Did you care?
My sheep,My Rabbits, My land, Your dogs lose.
Guess what? You won the dam dogs where enough to run me out of the sheep and rabbit biz.
So now I can set in my yard and watch strange dogs run by and not even care a bit.

A few days after we moved into our place I saw two Labs chasing a deer in the back field and I didn't do anything about it, they were from town and I didn't know who the owner was. I saw them often running in the field and didn't do anything about it. When my flock of chickens, that I raised from day old, just started to lay these dogs killed nine of them. I killed the dogs.

Shortly after that I noticed a stray cat someone had dumped off and I didn't do anything about it. I saw this cat roaming around several times and I didn't do anything about it. When one of my ducks started hatching out a batch this cat killed the ones that were hatched and ate the eggs of the ones that weren't hatched yet. Sixteen baby ducks killed, I killed the cat.

When my neighbors dog (chihaha Jack Russel mix) started coming to my place and eating the cat food I didn't do anything about it. I did talk to the neighbor and told them about it but they just thought it was funny. When a couple hens disappeared and I caught the neighbors dog dragging one of my ducks up the road I decided to kill it also but luckily it drowned chasing one of my ducks on the thin ice of the pond.

I figure I am out several hundred dollars because of stray animals I didn't do anything about.

Now if it is domestic, not mine, and is on my property I will shoot it without a hesitation.

"O"

I'm curious....could you explain what "they would have to deal with me and it would not be good for anyone" means? If you care about your dog that much then you don't let them wander on to other peoples property.

Their property - their choice (within the limits of the law). You may not like it but when you make threats (veiled or not) you raise it to a whole other level that I hope you fully understand.

It makes me sad to think of shooting a dog that doesn't understand what "no trespassing" signs mean. It would be much better if the law allowed their owners to be shot. I guarantee that the problem of wandering dogs would decline mighty fast.

Just a few thoughts.

Mike

If I had 20 or so acres then yes, roaming dogs would be shot on sight. When you have close neighbors you do have to pick and choose your battles. Having had dogs that wandered and having had dogs that would stay home I can see the point from the dog owners perspective. No one ever shot my little Potsie. Cute as a button, loved everyone except little kids, never bothered anyone's animals, the neighbors (farm country) all knew him and one even gave him milk while they were milking (and you wonder why he wandered???). Got hit by a car on the road. (the dairy farm was across the road) Broke my heart but I knew he shouldn't have been roaming. I can't have a dog here because ds has allergies.

Now cats are another story. I see a cat, we have a dead cat in the yard. Except for Bahgera (sp???) and Kitkat. Both belong to the neighbor across the street. Those are the only cats I know and allow to live. I hate shooting them but they come from out of nowhere and the immigration just never stops. Last one I caught after it had killed several pigeons. Don't know who's it was, don't care. I'm getting ready to set traps near the cat colony up the road. I own property there and the cat population keeps tearing up my garden. If I catch it, it dies.

Because if the dogs are problem dogs then the owner doesn't really care enough to prevent the problem in the first place- so they certainly will not assume enough personal responsibility or care enough to correct the problem they are causing; or even care at all because in their eyes it is your problem and not their problem. I believe that the reason why the SSS concept gets so much support on this board is because there are many like-minded people here who have had similar experiences and have discovered that the best- and usually only- person to solve your problem is you.

But I don't think the OP meant to infer that any stray dog should be shot- just the problem ones.

Here is another perspective. If you have your own dogs, invisible fence your property and train your dogs to the invisible fence. People that say invisible fence doesn't work have not trained their dogs properly but that is another thread.
You can fence areas the your dogs have access to and where they cant access by doing loops in the fencing. My dogs can go around all my outbuildings that house livestock but cant go in them.
My dogs are territorial to their property and also have a dog door they
can come in and out out will. My dogs will NOT let another dog or for that matter on their property. I have never lost any live stock to wandering dogs.
My neighbors dog made the mistake once of coming over. My dogs had it cornered and once they were called off the dog ran home and never came back.

If I did have the situation of something killing my livestock it would be SSS no question. This is our business and I can not have losses.
My dogs are Great Danes so this might not work if you have a little yappy dog.

Suspect and conviction are two different things.

Maybe I'm getting too durn old, but when I was a youngun', we still had feuds in my part of the world...enough where I can point you to seven graves, death at the hands of person or persons unknown.

People still get away with all kinds of crimes, even today, everyday.

But back to the original subject...yes, dogs can be a nuisance. But one wants to exhaust all legal avenues before resorting to taking the law in your own hands.

Been there, done that.

And until you have to carry a gun all day, every day, just to feed and water, and take care of the place...well, it's hard to explain...it's not so much being personally afraid - although there is that - it's having to send your wife and kids back home to live with mom until you get things straightened out. It's knowing where your shotgun or your rifle is at all times. It's sleeping with one dog in the house, one dog outside the house and snoozing with one eye open.

It's just not much life.

Like I said, if at all possible, let the law take care of it...that's what they get paid for...

One other thing...you shoot a neighbor's dog in Louisiana...even if that dog is munching on your livestock, you, not the dog's owner are going to jail.

That's the law...

I almost had to lol at the 'side of a barn' - as I am the same way, however, I wish I had done the SSS this past year, instead of ending 3 years of neighboring pit bull violence against my stock and threats against me - with finally a vicious dog ruling (I had to testify, write letters, etc then it was MY fault the dog was being put down of course). Then the OWNERS took over threatening me and calling AC constantly about my livestock guardian dog (who barked at them because a)they were trespassing, and b)yelling at me and harrassing me) - SO - since I couldn't SSS THEM - I totally have decided if I have to go through that again, there will be a missing dog. Friendly little roaming dogs are different - they get escorted home after a quick phone call - but if I get growled, challenged, or have to remove it from my animals....

Neighbors ended up moving thank goodness.

The law in WV is very clear. If a dog is harassing your stock, kill it. You don't have to bother the sheriff. You don't have to talk to the owner. If it's on your property and it's after your livestock, the law is absolutely clear.

We have a new neighbor across the creek that allows his pit bull to run loose. So far it hasn't come across the creek. If it does and it goes after any of the livestock, said dog won't do it again if I catch it in the act.

I did catch two dogs years ago. They weren't after anything. They were lost. They got tied up and we eventually found the owner.

We had a dog pack several years ago running through the area. The neighbor took care of that problem before I had a chance.

A dog off your property, running on its own, is no longer your "property".
Its a shame, and its the owner's problem, the dog is in peril.

Two of mine where shot, rightly or wrongly, but they were off my property, one running, one neutered still trying to breed anothers bitch, ironic but funny if you knew this dog. Because I did NOT have them under control, I could say nothing.

Two other working dogs took off and got killed on the by-pass and it really tore me up. Again, off my property, and hence, unprotected by me.

Most of my working dogs had good careers as gun and sled dogs, and I worked really hard at keeping them all safe under my care and control.

The least trouble my dogs got in for running away, was getting thrown in the slammer til I could redeem them [ that hurt $ $ $ ], next was porcupine quills, the vet, and finally me removing them. The worst were the death sentences, and because they were out of my control, nothing I could do.

Let your dog run, and its the slammer, the snare, the coyote trap, the shotgun, or getting run down. I think those are the facts. If you are consistently negligent, well, you have issues.

I value my animals, and pet and I dont let them run. I doubt anyone with any sense of responsiblity lets their assets loose in any community. Since they are animals with a very small amount of sentience, no one can depend on them acting responsibly from a human standpoint. Its the humans that must act responsibly or be held accountable.

So far, the most effective manner of dealing with trespassing or threatening critters like dogs, is to restrain them with trap or relaxing snare, and then drop them off at your local Animal Control "strays running at large"

That in and of itself usually sets a train of events in motion that resolves the issue. The animal is either destroyed, or the owner fined. Documentary video evidence is quite supportive if the animal proves aggressive or dangerous to remove, especially if you CALL Animal Control to remove them from your premises.

While I understand the feelings of all involved and have lost animals thru no fault of their own, IMO, animals running at large is an unacceptable situation.

DG

Not a threat but a statement of fact. I fully understand. I don't "allow my dogs to wander" but I am not perfect and they have wandered a couple times over the years.

I agree completely but what some don't seem to want to acknowledge is that nobody is perfect, stuff happens, mistakes are made, say it however you want but you get the point.

To you there is no seperation between a dog that is allowed to wander and a dog that got out because a kid didn't latch the gate or a visitor didn't shut the door tightly when they left?

Another thing I don't understand about this shoot every dog mentality is that around here wandering dogs are the very least of your predatory worries. You could eliminate every dog in the county and if you don't have your birds protected you're going to lose them to something else.

This subject always sems to divide down a straight line. To me it's not that black and white. Yes, dogs can be a problem. No, every dogs that walks through your field is not a problem.

Everybody has their own point of view, and others might not agree with it. We have that problem right here at home with DH & I.

I was here when a couple of stray dogs showed up and started attacking my chickens. I had a gate in front of the chicken coop which I'd put up after opening the doors, so the coop would air out better, yet keep them coralled (this system worked well for several years). These dogs apparently pried the gate open at the bottom just enough to get in and then slaughtered every single chicken I had. They did it for the sport, not for the food, as all of my 30+ chickens were left (most had their necks broken). Whatever was moving, they were going after. In the meantime, I rushed to get a gun and hopped on the golf cart to get down there as fast as I could. I kept trying to shoo the dogs off but they were having none of it. I was ready to shoot but had to use caution because they were near the barn, power lines, our farm fuel tanks, bulldozer, tractor (you get the picture). When I finally got the opportunity to shoot one of the dogs, the stupid .9 mm jammed! I was SO upset. By this point they had killed them all.

I've never seen these dogs in this area before. I called the Sheriff's office and a deputy came out to witness the carnage. He told me I had every right to shoot any animal attacking any livestock and recommended a different gun. He was very sympathetic and said he'd check around after I'd given him a description of the dogs. I had to gather up all my dead chickens and spend the day burning them.

Now since then, I've told our neighbors - if you see these dogs, shoot them. Yet my husband interrupts me and tells them - no don't shoot them. He doesn't want problems with any neighbors. But I've already checked with all our neighbors within a 3+ mile radius and they have never seen these dogs and don't know who they would belong to. They agree the dogs should be shot. I get so angry at DH for saying don't shoot them - he wasn't here witnessing the attack. He wasn't having to deal with the problem. He didn't have to spend the day gathering up carcasses and burning them all, cleaning up the mess, etc. If he'd have been here, I think his attitude would be a lot different.

We are huge animal lovers and the last thing we'd do is shoot an animal just because it's on our land. But if it's attacking or threatening us or our animals, I believe it needs to be shot if we can't chase it off or don't know who owns it (to call and get them to come get it). And by the way, I've made a point to get to know all our nearest neighbors and their pets shortly after we moved here.

Those dogs came back 2 days later; but there were no chickens left for them to kill. They disappeared the minute I ran out of the house with a gun, and haven't been back that I know of.

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A kind word, gesture or deed can mean more to someone than you may ever know. It may even change their life.

If a bunch of roaches get in my house ( pests ) I put out poison bait for them. end of problem.
If a bunch of rats move into the barn ,You got it ,I put out poison for them also . again end of problem.
If dogs come on my property killin my stock , crapin in my yard, getting in my trash, ect.
I put out a little "rid a pup" end of problem.
No noise , no chance of a stray bullet hitting a neighbor, ... and hay if you like your dog then keep it off my property.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWvD6qAaF_A

And, if my neighbor can't keep his danged carpenter bees on his property, I swear I'm going to start shooting them!

LOL!! Oggie you are bad.....

__________________
"Sins like chickens, come home to roost at night."
Charles W. Chesnut

Sorry Oggie but no matter how many times I try I can't get those little invisible fence collars to stay on the bees.

I wholeheartedly agree that sometimes things slip and dogs get away. Those are not the usual perps when it comes to livestock killers. The usual livestock killers are left free to roam at will. The one my mom shot a couple months ago (and left in a neighbors field where the owner found it) was an at-large dog, well, one of two. The owner was pretty po'd when he knocked on Mom's door, he left contrite and apologetic. She didn't get any money from him though. Those dogs didn't bother anything the first couple times they were there. Then they started harassing rabbits, then eating eggs and killing chickens, the one died in the act of chewing the toes off Mom's best NZW rabbit. The owner left the dogs tun while he was at work, which happened to be while Mom was at work. She was on vacation the day she shot the dog.

My whole point was that if you know who owns a problem dog and the dog is continually left to run free and get into trouble the owner just doesn't care what the dog does. Those are the people it is pointless to talk with. They just don't care and just get upset with you because you have a problem with their dog tearing up your property and harassing your animals. Those are the ones that need SSS, IMO before they cause a problem. There are a very few exceptions to that, very few. Hooligan's buddy was one.