SS#'s for infant?

I'm glad you brought this up. You know, if there is to be some future "mark" it will always be rationalized and explained away precisely how the ss# is now.

And I really wish people would stop repeating the same things, " you can't do this or that etc." Well, show the so-called law then. Also, those individuals who are requesting such a number, as mentioned yesterday, cannot hide behind "policy" and "obeying orders." Each man is responsible for his own deeds.

There is no law currently on the books at the federal level requiring anyone to have an SSN. If your religion believes that SSNs are bad then dont get one or dont use the one you have, you can claim it violates your religious beliefs and no one will force you. It makes your life very difficult and in some states you will not be able to get a drivers license buy a home etc. but you have that choice.

THe infant does not have a choice.

If as adults you wish to refuse to give out your SS# then by all means do it, but why make the kids life more difficult than it needs to be?

CarolynRenee

I'd suggest PMing Rebel Lemming and visit with her husband, since as she said, neither he nor his children have SSNs. They might have the answers to your questions. And, you'd avoid negativity. Good luck.

Did not take long for the silly "mark of the beast", to come along.

Would not the very name, your parents gave you, also be considered a "mark".

Better give it up too.

I am thinking along the same vain of things, some sure are out there, that is for sure.

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One of the reasons we don't have electricity is because they told my husband he could have the service with no SSN but they refused to put it in writing for him.. unless he produced a greencard. He told them to shut it off and made them take all the electric poles off our property.
Luckily, he was prepared to take that step, and has been without electricity for years.
There are a lot of things where SSN's are required... if you aren't prepared to deal with these things accordingly, then its probably better to just let them number you and your babies.

We never know how our lives will turn out. I'm 45 and will soon have to stop working. My health is declining. Now, if I didn't have a SS # I wouldn't be able to work as a nurse. I wouldn't be able to have the disability insurance I have or get the SS disability payments that are in my future. Do I like any of these things? No. But I'd starve without them. Worse yet, so would my children. How would my 11 year old who has received millions of dollars in medical benefits be alive? I've c got good commercial insurance for her. But, I need a SS # for that too.

These matters can turn into life and death things.

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I can not believe there are so many that just like to gamble as much as they do with their lives as well as there young ones, when this number thing is no big deal at all. After all this IS the 21st Century now. Not the dark ages. Superstitions should all be behind us now and looking into the bright future.

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Green card? Why, is he an illegal?

Mon

I have an SS#, I have helped friends to find information about SS accounts and to file the forms to reject their SS accounts.

The IRS can issue an alternative set of numbers and most every government agency is required to accept those alternative numbers. So if it is your heart's desire to continue filing IRS tax forms you can, using their alternative numbering system.

I did a 20+ year career in the US Navy; we had many US sailors who did not have SS accounts. Mostly those sailors who are from the Philippine Islands. It is entirely up to them, if they choose to ask for a SS account of not. Most of them refuse.

I have served with US Navy sailors who were citizens of Peru, Brazil, the UK, and Georgia; and again they were given the option of asking for a SS account if they wanted one, or not.

Such is not required either way.

Nobody is required to have such a policy. And if you had such a policy; then later decide that you wish to get rid of it; you can attempt to get rid of it. However their policy governing whom they allow to leave the system, hinges entirely upon a person's belief system and/or if a person has an alternative system setup for them [like a railroad or county policy].

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My parents face the opposite scenario. Dad started working for the local municipality in 1947 @ age 16. At that time Social Security was NOT extended to state, county, and municipal workers. Years later when it was made available, due to the minimal wages paid by the municipality, he was unable to pay in the 'back' monies and become part of the system. Mom was a stay at home mother operating a cash based seamstress business from home and never worked enough 'quarters' to qualify for Social Security.

Now dad is gone and mom is forced to purchase health care [the municipality has to let her pay for their plan] on 1/2 of dad's pension meaning she has to pay for services she does not need consuming a large portion of her income.

They both had SSN cards...

It was neat to see the look on the face of the person from the hospital's 'business offfice' when they found out that the expensive devices the wanted mom and dad to purchase [gee, they must get commission] that 'Medicare will pay for it!' only to hear that my parents didn't have medicare...

A company I used to work for hired a new immigrant from Korea. He was telling me he went to apply for a drivers license only to be told he needed a SSN to obtain one. So he dutifully went down and signed up for social security.

I had suggested to him that the drivers license people were trying to tell him that he did not need a drivers license if he had no SSN but he could not comprehend the connection.

FWIW, I do not know if my suggestion was true or not. I know that illegal aliens have a right to drive without a license and that is why Kalifornia passed laws so that they could apply for the license, after which they had agreed to give up their right to drive.

You have to know what kind of contracts you agree to before you sign up.

I don't know if a SIN number is exactly the same as a SSN, but we have Social Insurance Numbers up here in Canada. You are free to apply for one when ever you want, but you CAN'T get a job until you get one. I got mine when i was 18 an applying for my first job. Fairly simple, you just walk in and get one.

I JUST got them for my kids age 2 and 6. The reason? I want to start up College funds for them and I can't without the number.

I can't imagine not having the number. How does a person work? Pay taxes? Get a credit card? Bank account? Drive? Hook up utilities?

ET1 SS: SSNs have been required in the military since service numbers were converted to SSNs in the 70s (about 1/3 of my unit are foreign nationals). Foreign nationals have to have an SSN and they pay into the SS system even though they wouldnt likely ever draw on it unless they became citizens. Also the old Filipino exemption created after WWII was phased out in the 80s.

You can file for a Tax ID Number but its still a number. The SS administration actually tries to discourage Federal Agencies and State governments from using SSNs as identifying numbers but not very successfully. Everyone that says you dont need an SSN legally is absolutely correct you dont. But you will be fighting many battles to prove this point and you seriously limit employment opportunities, travel options, owning property etc. I guess you have to ask yourself if its that important to you and then act accordingly.

If you are curious about how one lives in the world today without social security you might listen to the mp3 archives at www.geogegordon.com. He covers this topic in great detail ad nausea.

In brief:
There are two business models in the world. One is the 10 commandments. The other is the 10 planks. The people who invite you to participate in the 10 planks model are the same ones who practice the 10 commandment model themselves.

I can give you an example of the above observation. Congress established the social security system but exempted themselves.

Of course. That is why they call it a drivers license. Any license is permission from the state to do anything that would otherwise be illegal. In fact a license might even be considered a title of nobility in a sense because it entitles one to perform an action he/she otherwise could not. Titles of nobility are not permitted in the U.S.A.

Driving is a commercial activity and needs to be regulated. Professional drovers used to be hired to drive the pigs to market. If you are driving you are doing so for commercial purposes.

Ever wonder what is illegal about getting married? A license is necessary for this illegal activity as well. A doctor needs a license. Otherwise his mistakes might be considered criminal. Lawyers tout that they have a license to practice law. That is so they can advise the government that torture is lawful. This takes the torturer off the hook and when you go after the attorney who made the claim they can state "I have a license to my opinion".

Our 3yo does not have one, not by choice, I just didn't check the right box when we applied for her birth cert. Now she does not have enough ID to get one. Go figure.

She does have a savings account, so the idea that you need a SS# for banking is bunk.
Whenever I've been asked for it, I just say she doesn't have one and that is that. I have had no problems yet.

Also, many of the Amish around here do not get one for their kids until they are adults. The get along just fine. I do the taxes for them and we just mark Amish in the SS field and there has never been a problem with them claiming them on their taxes.

The IRS does not let us claim our 3yo though, guess you need that religious explanation.

My company will not do a name change with out the social security card.

Now mind you I had to show my driver's license and birth certificate at the municipal courthouse to get the marriage license, I then showed the marriage license to change the driver's license to the married name at the tag office, and when I got divorced, showed them the divorce papers to change the driver's license back... now mind you why is it the government willing accept a piece of paper and make all those changes, when my job won't? I think it is ridiculous...

I finally had to apply for a new card, just to get my name corrected in the system on my job.

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Stop screaming... there is no reason for both of us being hysterical at the same time.

From the IRS: (my bolding)

And you need just as much documentation as you would for a SS#. If I had it, I'd get her SS#.