SS#'s for infant?

How do you tell which John Smith you are selling your house to and taking his check without a ssn? Type any name into search and see how many come up. How do you get a loan from the bank or a credit card without a ssn. Every bit of credit I have ever gotten required a ssn. This is a big problem today with so many people being in our country working without paying taxes. If you don't have a ssn who do you pay taxes to if you work? Sam

......."I dont know how that squares up with your religious beliefs but I am curious as to your reasons for letting the government do this."

This is EXACTLY the reason why we do not want to contribute to this system, even if it means NOT taking government handouts. We do not willingly pay income taxes, it is taken by force. We have relocated & taken lower-paying jobs in order to reduce the money stolen from us (in order to pay for those warfare & ill-conceived programs), as well as other peaceful means of reducing our forced-contribution to the behemouth.

It is not necessarly a religious belief, but a moral belief.

Also, there are people who do not make "enough" money, therefore they get all of their tax contributions back, PLUS any tax "credits". Personally, that seems like stealing from your neighbor.

Once again, I didn't mean to stir up a harsh subject, nor really want to debate the 16th Amendment, but I really do want to know REAL experiences regarding those who do NOT have a SS number.

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I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson

Geesh. Even my Old Order Amish neighbors have social security numbers.
They just don't believe in or collect Social Security.

deb
in wi

Interesting. Main problem with income taxes is they also pay for the police, roads in your state, and many other things..not just welfare.

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Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

Actually, fuel taxes pay for the roads, police is paid for by local taxes (not necessarly income taxes), schooling is paid for by local real estate taxes.........

Again, welcoming any first hand experiences for those without SS numbers.

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I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson

Schools are PARTIALLY paid for by local taxes. The rest comes from state and federal funds.

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Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

This may be helpful:


SOCIAL SECURITY:

Idolatry and Slavery
by Matthew Trewhella

http://mercyseat.net/pamphlets/ssnarticle.html

CarolynnRenee:

So if your statement is correct, you and your husband took lower paying jobs in order to let the government deduct less from your pay (make less/pay less) rather than using the deduction of your child which would allow you to make more and pay even less to the government? You have powerful beliefs and have obviously already made up your mind and do not need anyones input here. If you equate getting back some of what you paid as a government handout then dont file taxes and claim your child; its your option.

The law is clear, you can file taxes or get a drivers license in some states with a Tax Identification Number instead of an SSN but its still a number. You can work off the books but thats not legal and you take a risk (although probably small) of getting caught. If your doing this for moral or religious reasons then you need to follow your conscious and I wish you luck.

If you interact with man, and man as a society, then be prepared to follow their local laws and customs. If you do not think that you can abide by the local laws, and customs, then leave. If you stay (your choice), and ignore same laws, then be prepared to pay the consequences.

Perhaps it is God's will that you do a few years in prison?

My thoughts exactly. A number is a number, whether it's a DL#, SS# or Tax ID#.

I'm a number to VISA and MasterCharge; I'm a policy number to my car, medical and dental insurance. I'm a number to Sam's Club and the local library. I'm an account number to my mortgage company. I'm a number to the electric company, propane provider, water company and phone company. At work I've got an employee number. I've got numbers so I can get discounts at CVS, Flying J and the local IGA. And underneath this nice user-interface, my username "Indypartridge" is just a number.

I just can't see trying to single out a SS# as somehow more sinister than all the other numbers we are tracked by.

Fwiw, every scenario you list can be done without your SSN. Credit card applications for example are so sloppy I could probably apply for one as rosewoodVA. Having a persons SSN is not a magic key to unlocking otherwise inpenetrable information. It's simply a tool.

Sure, it's just a number. And anyone can "borrow" your number if they wish. There's nothing attached to my person that says a certain number IS MY NUMBER. There had to be some kind of other identification presented to get to issuing that particularly number for me. The honor system cannot be trusted anymore. It should be tattooed on us with a government seal. Let's start with the babies! (and don't think tptb haven't already thought of it)

I'm all for getting rid of a single "not for identification purposes" number and the whole social government.

If worried about not having a SSN or not forcing one on a child you might present the public an opportunity to respond by placing a public notice in the legal section of the paper (the section that no one reads).

The address is that of a third party who can provide a notarized affidavit that no responses were received. Obtain the notarized certification from the publisher and record both documents with the counties Recorders office.

By doing so you have remained in honor and have given the public a chance to respond. If anyone chooses to criticize your decision later pull out a certified copy of the recorded document and ask why they didn't complain sooner. This method is how private law is accomplished.

Perhaps Reptyle you can show us man's so-called law which clearly commands that living souls must obtain and use a ss#.

Perhaps you can tell us what all the "laws" are because no one really seems to know!

As for leaving, why don't you leave? If you desire to be in bondage under man's domination, then why do you seek to force God's children to be under the same control?

The will of God? It is God's will for his children to obey him. Not man.

According to your own words, religious persecution is alive and well!

CarolynRenee, my brother's girlfriend went through the first 20 years of her life without a SSN. Then she wanted to take an incredible job opportunity that required her to get a passport. The paperwork was extremely difficult and costly (not sure why - lots of people said it would be easy) and it took forever and she missed the opportunity. I'm not sure she has ever forgiven her parents.

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Ya know, Bewise.... in one of your other posts (one of the VERY few where you were not extremely religiously outspoken, persecuting the thoughts of those who are not the same as yours) you stated
"I don't force my beliefs on others and I don't care for others forcing their beliefs upon me."

What then, is this continual condemnation of others who choose to follow a different path, be it religious or otherwise?

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" It's better to ride even if you get thrown, than to wind up just wishin' ya had."

Chris Ledoux

I wasn't given a choice to not get the kids SS#. They wouldn't let me out of the hospital without one.That was 28 years ago, three times.

Also I just renewed my drivers license last week and was required to have SS#, Birth Certificate, Marriage license and a letter with your address on it. No exceptions. Then they looked at the birth certificate and asked questions on it to see if you knew what it said. This was after driving for 35 years.

What in the world are you thinking?

You will make your child's life very, very complicated by not having a SS#.

It's not the mark of the beast or a 666 on his/her forehead- it's a number that will ne needed for almost anything he/she may want to do.

You can't do anything without having one. No utilities will give you service. No college will accept you or let you apply for student loans. No drivers license without a huge battle. No job. No credit. No property ownership. No travel???

It was mentioned that INS required two forms of ID when one was hired [Form I-9]; well this has changed; INS is now part of the 'Homeland Security' group of federal agencies and the I-9 form was updated. Someone mentioned having to correct his SSN to renew his drivers license after they ran his incorrect number.

That system is called e-verify and every employer is supposed to use it to insure you are a citizen authorized to work in the USA. This is being used to tighten the net around those who are not here legally. I can see this being extended to other life functions in addition to employment.

People who don't come back instantly 'authorised' get a number of days to get things corrected b/4 they are supposed to be 'terminated'. I had one lady who was using her married name and hadn't updated her SSN record so it kicked her out and she had to go and take care of it. The employer can be fined if they don't 'close' these un-authorized inquiries in the required amount of time.

Of course there are still jobs that get around this. We used Independent Contractors [owner operators] and we paid the truck. It was common to see a guy w/ a company name, often incorporated by his home state, using a federal TIN instead of a SSN and going by the 'company' name. Therefore 'Homeboy Trucking, Inc.' got paid on Form 1099 and was required to settle up w/ the state and feds on his own.

Since these guys were not 'employees' we did not run them thru e-verify. We would often get IRS garnishments once they tracked down where he was currently working and they would just quit and go on to another trucking company and do it all over again trying to stay one step ahead of the taxman...Alot of them paid their taxes too and when I put their termination into the 'ex driver' database at DAC, they would come back as an invalid SSN even though the state gave them a CDL and incorporated their company...go figure.

Um, the issue is about the majority of people being forced to obtain and use numbers, to conform to the religion of Statism. Who's forcing who? Who has the weapons? Not me.