To Immunize or Not to Immunize

I have not read each and every post but if the subject of mercury poisoning has not come up, it should. Vaccines are very bad medicine to be avoided at all costs. To the original poster I say read, read, read, and then read some more until you have satisfied your mind one way or another.

you did real good benton

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http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/

I fear that someone needs to put in at least one good word for the herd.

Just because someone dances to the beat of a different drummer, doesn't mean that there isn't a pretty good chance that they aren't woefully out-of-step with reality.

I've not commented so far because it was flying so fast and furious around here but here is another consideration:

You may have seen a recent Law and Order where a woman was prosecuted for bringing her unvaccinated (and sick) child to a public park, exposing and eventually killing another child (who was too young for that vaccination). While they had the standard disclaimer about it not being a real person, there is some truth in it from 2 recent cases.

The reason that most people who don't get vaccinated don't get the dreadful diseases is because most other people do, thereby preventing a pool of the pathogen from building up. So, people get to not bury their children because others are vaccinated. There is an increasing voice out there for prosecution of disease spreading childrens' parents who, through bringing their sick kids places, infect others. There is nothing funny about a 1 year old with measles. Nothing.

And all those who talk about vaccines like they are poison, yes, there are very small risks. But our youth mortality rate (less than 5 years old) is 1/10,000th of what it was due to contagious illnesses. And that includes kids who die from stuff we can't yet vaccinate for since many come in pairs.

I've been on humanitarian missions where vaccinations are religiously prohibited. Seeing countless women with a couple of dying babies after already losing 4 or 6 or 8 or more previously to totally preventable diseases via vaccination is criminal. Truly.

Preemies do need special care though. Talk to a good preemie doctor. Each one will be different as to when they are ready.

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Christy
Growing Human
http://growinghuman.blogspot.com

When wearing narrow lenses of hate and ignorance, is it any wonder one finds it difficult to see clearly? - Me

I don't believe anyone here did say that vaccines=autism. I didn't go back and scrutinize the posts, but I don't recall that statement being made.

Listen, the long and short of it is this; immunizations have undoubtedly saved thousands, if not millions, of lives from either being lost or lived out in an entirely different manner. People who have lost children in the past to horrible diseases that are now practically unheard of due to vaccines will argue to the death that vaccines are the best things since...well, since I don't even know what! Sliced bread seems a bit crass a term to use here when talking about such an important subject! That being said, immunizations could have and should be given in a safer manner. And parents should be made aware that there's the choice to space out vaccines. Period. There's no harm in waiting a bit longer to start vaccines....and I can hardly believe there's any relevent medical research that shows there's an advantage to giving 8 vaccines in a single visit for a child who is a year-and-a-half old (and yes, thats how many vaccines my dd received in ONE visit at that age).

People whose children suffer from autism, asperger's, or any other of a miriad of developmental disorders will certainly NOT hold the exact views of those whose children's bodies were maimed by vaccine-preventable disease. Even though science has not proven definitively that there is no coorelation between autism/asperger's/developmental disorders, you cannot argue that with a parent whose child went in on Tuesday for an MMR vaccine and woke up Wednesday not being able to speak or relate to those around him/her. You will never, ever in this lifetime convince that parent whose child is locked inside their body that the vaccine didn't do that to their child. Many autistic children are just as trapped and maimed as those children who contracted childhood diseases that physically disabled them. And anyone who want to argue that point can do so after they spend a month caring for an autistic child in a parental role.

Vaccines are and will continue to be lifesavers. As I said in my previous post, I am not a *for* or *against* parent.....I am a *for* parent when it's done in a safe and smart manner. Again, each parent should research, should ask lots of questions, and should make and INFORMED decision that's right for THEIR family and THEIR circumstances.

And, in the words of Forrest Gump That's all I got to say about that

Shawna

I do want to add that since I gave the autism/MMR scenario, I do not think that vaccines are a sole *cause* of autism....it totally came out like that in my post. While I think vaccines are a contributor, I have never thought they were a sole cause for autism.....I think there are other factors (genetics, enviromental, etc) that come into play. Didn't want to make it sound like vaccine=autism post!!

I did immunize mine but waited until they were 6 months old...as for myself and brothers and sisters the only shots we EVER had were tetnus...nothing else not even smallpox...religious reasons...when we did get the childhood diseases we werent "sick" just broke out in the rashes lol...I remember in third grade I got the mumps and cried my heart out because they sent me home...I wasnt sick lol and of course for the most part we usually came down with stuff during the summer on vacation other than the mumps episode even now as an adult I have had the flu once in my lifetime when I was 22 other than that we are all pretty healthy.

This is side note I'm not trying to hijack the thread but any one who is worried about autism should check out Dr. Amy Yasko She has spent a large part of her life studying neurological diseases. She is micro biologist, an NP and has several other degrees. We have an autistic child and have worked with Dr Yasko for sometime the results with our son were amazing. I would highly recommend her before you vaccinate or if you have a child with autism or other neurological disease.

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The Last Frontier - My blog about Life in the Alaska Bush, Homesteading and Homeschooling.

If my birth mother had gotten herself vaccinated with the German measles shots, my twin brother and I would be born completely normal. As it is, I was born with eye problems and deaf. My brother was born with eye problems, heart problems, mentally retarded (not severely but enough that he can't function independently and has rage problems when he can't communicate and has broken some bones in his body slamming it against the wall and some such) and on top of that he is deaf. For that very reason, I'm for vaccinations. However, I do the time delayed vaccination schedule so that my kids get their shots in a timely manner without it all at once.

On a slightly different subject, I'm also for vaccinations on animals since I've lost some dogs to parvo and that was not pleasant sight..the pups were suffering and my so-called vet wanted to charge me $40 per pup to put 'em down! I took them to the local shelter and they put them down for me for free.

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Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

"I do not believe in Modern Medicine. I am a medical heretic. I believe that Modern Medicine’s treatments for disease . . . are more dangerous than the diseases they are designed to treat. I believe that more than ninety percent of Modern Medicine could disappear from the face of the earth – doctors, hospitals, drugs, and equipment – and the effect on our health would be immediate and beneficial . . . For the hospital is the Temple of the Church of Modern Medicine and thus one of the most dangerous places on earth . . . There’s plenty to be afraid of.

"The God that resides in the Temple of Modern Medicine is Death . . . The doctor-priest gets away with a lot because he can claim to be up against the very Forces of Evil . . . Never is he seen in his true light — as the agent of the Devil . . .We have a Medical Inquisition. The first sign of an inquisition is the selling of indulgences . . . Medical insurance is the doctor’s version of indulgences . . . Like the communion wafer which Catholics receive on the tongue, drugs are the communion wafers of Modern Medicine. . . . Try getting from one end of life to the other without paying your dues to Modern Medicine: immunizations, fluoridated water, intravenous fluids and silver nitrate . . . When you get to the cathedrals and the little "Vaticans" of Modern Medicine, you are up against priests who have the weight of infallibility behind them. They can do no wrong, so they are most dangerous . . . "

I've linked to a post by Mark Crislip. He is a infectious disease specialist for 4 hospitals in the Portland, Oregon metropolotan area. For him to be in business he needs people to get sick but curiously (probably not so much really) he is very pro vaccination.

In his post he outlines what has been documented to occur in the body of a child who has either been vaccinated or has contracted a vaccine-preventable disease. Read the post and see which scenario you would wish on your child.


The Infection Schedule versus the Vaccination Schedule

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=289

"We must get vaccines removed from the marketplace, and prevent our corrupted government from forcing these poisons down our "throats". Engage in active resistance !!!! To exercise civil disobedience. DO NOT ALLOW VACCINES TO BE ADMINISTERED TO THOSE YOU LOVE. Even if threatened with fines, or jail....the buck MUST STOP HERE. We will be vindicated. The government isn't listening as it should, which tells us that this is no longer a government for, or of, the American people. It is, and has been for a while, a government of corruption and tyranny. Sorry, no other way to put it. ONLY AN ENEMY WOULD FORCE YOU TO BE VACCINATED AGAINST YOUR WILL, USING POISONS. ONLY AN INSANE MONSTER WOULD CHANCE HURTING OUR CHILDREN. A government for the people my eye !!! WE MUST STOP THIS INSANITY by every means necessary, to prevent continued maiming and deaths related to ALL VACCINES. Remember, mercury, aluminum, formalin (formaldehyde), and other artificial or recombinant modified products contained in vaccines, are ALL dangerous to the human system. This is unnatural, and against all humanity. VACCINES BY THEIR VERY NATURE, WITH OR WITHOUT MERCURY, ARE INHERENTLY INEFFECTIVE AND IMPLICITLY DANGEROUS. RESIST THIS GOVERNMENT-INDUSTRIAL PLAN TO VACCINATE. THIS IS SIMPLY SOCIO/PSYCHO-PATHIC CONTROL AND GREED BY OUR GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS DRIVEN BY THE PHARMACEUTICAL CASHFLOW AND REVOLVING GOVERNMENT DOORS. GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION KILLS."


Arthur Evangelista

Former FDA Investigator
Public Health and Medical Fraud Research Cooperative, North Carolina Unit

This is exactly the kind of post that helps someone make a decision based on fear and not on their own research and fact-finding.

BeWise: Would you be insulted if I explained the scientific method to you? Nobody asks you (or the dude you're quoting) to take anything at face value. Every reputable scientist or doctor in the world would encourage you to do your own research before believing what you're told.

In fact, if you are taking it at face value, I'd venture to say you're doing it wrong.

While I'm thinking about it, (and even better, back on topic) it should be noted that if you're feeding a newborn breast milk, they are getting some immunity from mom. I would agree with posters saying it's perfectly OK to wait until the little one is a little older and has the strength to fight the vaccine correctly.

(One article on the topic.)

Thank you for all the, let's say, VARIED opinions on my original question, and I'm sorry that some turned out to be not so nice, but.....

Yes, I am breastfeeding & hold the belief that she is getting all those good antibodies & stuff (scientific term, stuff) from me. We also live quite a "secluded" life, so not that we are immune to those problems, but we definately shelter ourselves from most of them, therefore avoiding (not entirely preventing) many other sickly people / places.

We are definately holding off her shots for the short term, and will selectively pick & choose which ones we will (or will not) give her based upon our morals, opinions and scientific facts.

Although I am sorry that there turned out to be some rather snippy replies here, I am thankful for the links & other information sources that I have did not have prior to this.

Thanks again!

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I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson

These diseases are not a huge deal these days, what with, y'know.... clean water, good food, antibotics and medical care if needed.
And tough cookies about "herd immunity". You protect yours how you see fit. I'll protect mine same way.

And WHY do people always think autism is the main concern?

I recently had to make similar decisions about vaccinating my 4th child, who was born with a heart defect and had open heart surgery at 3 months old. We held off altogether with shots until he was about 5 months. Then we started a selective shot schedule which included the vaccines I felt were the most important. I decided on HIB, Pc, DTaP, Polio and MMR(eventually). I feel it is also important to space the shots out far enough as to not overload their little bodies. I got a lot of my information for my decision from The Vaccine Bookby Dr. Robert W. Sears, M.D., F.A.A.P. It is a very well written unbiased source of information about vaccines. I highly reccommend getting this book to help make an informed decision. In it, among many things, he gives the ingredient lists for the different brands of shots and talks about aluminum content(which is kind of scary).
I would also like to add that there are many more vaccines given now than were given 25 years ago. This chart explains what I am talking about.http://http://www.generationrescue.org/pdf/080212.pdf
Most importantly, as others have also pointed out, do a ton of research yourself until you feel comfortable with what you decide.

I have posted my opinion and I will again...it is the parents' choice. We chose to delay/selective vaccinate our child. We don't let him get more than 1 at a time and we wait at least 2-3 months before the next one. We also don't let him get one if he has been sick withing the last 2 weeks or appears that he may be catching something even though the Dr. saw no problem with this. We will probably not get a majority of them but there are several that we will. We have 5 shots now and he is 2. He may get some more in about 6 mths or so...maybe not...I should add that I might feel differently if my child were in school and exposed to other children on a regular basis, but he is not. I am also a mother that wipes down carts and such to prevent the spread of bacteria and viruses but I do not use disinfecting items...just a spray bottle with vinegar and water...just my 2 cents...

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Kat
www.KatsKardsnKrafts.etsy.com
Out to move a mountain...

I agreel, We have come a long ways, but that doesn't mean that we can just stop what we are doing, especially considering how well these vaccines have worked.

And yes, I will protect mine how I see fit. I do, however, feel its important to note that the best thing that non-vaccinated children have going for them is that most of thier peers ARE vaccinated.

And Autism is the main concern because that is what most people and the media bring up. No other reason except for that.

Chicken pox is one I would NOT use. I was told by the Dr. that it is mainly given because of the parents who work must take time off and it creates a burned on the work place. Basically just because of the economics and stress of having parents stay home w/ all the children as the disease stairsteps through the kids.

That is a really stupid reason to vaccinate. Inconvience is not a valid reason. Serious injury or death is the only good reason to vacc.