To Immunize or Not to Immunize

[QUOTE=BeWise;3794201]"You only need to see a single child suffering from polio or whooping cough or any of the other diseases which can be vaccinated against, and you'll be converted in favour of vaccination forever."

FALSE. The assumption here is that a healthy child has been infected with a "virus" which is not possible. And without the superstitious germ theory vaccination then crumbles. [QUOTE]

Superstitious theory? I'm old enough to well remember the horror wreaked by polio, diphtheria, cholera and other deadly diseases that have been pretty well controlled by vaccination. Smallpox has presumably been eradicated by vaccination, or do you believe it went extinct because of a meteor strike or the pollution we humans create?

If there is no such thing as a virus or germs, or healthy people can't be infected, as you seem to assert, please share your ideas as to how disease is spread amongst the population. Is it bad juju, wicked little elves, noxious miasmas, evil spirits? Please enlighten us poor superstitious folks.

I am familiar with a sad case of a healthy young girl who raped by a sicko that was infected with HIV. She was infected with HIV and now has full blown AIDS as a result of that rape.

What sort of vaccination would you attribute her AIDS to, or do you consider rape to be an "vaccination" of sorts? The only "animal filth" this poor child had been exposed to was the filthy animal that assaulted her.

I all too vividly remember the blind, terribly retarded child a neighbor lady gave birth to after she contracted measles while pregnant. Couldn’t blame it on a vaccination, she never had one.

And the poor woman spent the rest of her life blaming herself for her son’s condition because she didn’t get a simple measles shot.

Denying the existence of “virus” and“ germs” is either incredibly naïve or…????

Who here has done this? Nobody but you have compared this discussion to religion. Nor has ANYONE even HINTED at conformity at the threat of violence. Your free to do what you like Bewise, but goodness, let's not make stuff up.

You really need to not be so rude. "wallowing in your wacky superstitious theories" , "harrass others with your silly beliefs"... You are just being mean and I doubt I'm the only one here that doesn't appreciate it.

We can have a nice discussion here without name calling, or general rudness. This is NOT GC and even if it were, commments like "your silly beliefs" would not be tolerated.

Here's some more facts about the brews concocted by the mad scientists:


"Explant cultures were made of the dissected organs of a particular fetus aborted because of rubella, the 27th in our series of fetuses aborted. This fetus was from a 25-year-old mother exposed to rubella 8 days after her last menstrual period. 16 days later she developed rubella. The fetus was surgically aborted 17 days after maternal illness and dissected immediately. Explants from several organs were cultured and successful cell growth was achieved from lung, skin, and kidney. It was then grown on WI-38. The new vaccine was tested on orphans in Philadelphia."

"[Varicella Virus Vaccine Live (Oka/Merck)] is a preparation of the Oka/Merck strain of live, attenuated varicella virus. The virus was initially obtained from a child with natural varicella, then introduced into human embryonic lung cell cultures, adapted to and propagated in embryonic guinea pig cell cultures and finally propagated in human diploid cell cultures (WI-38). Further passage of the virus for varicella vaccine was performed at Merck Research Laboratories (MRL) in human diploid cell cultures (MRC-5) that were free of adventitious agents. This live, attenuated varicella vaccine is a lyophilized preparation containing sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, andprocessed gelatin as stabilizers. VARIVAX, when reconstituted as directed, is a sterile preparation for subcutaneous administration. Each 0.5 mL dose contains the following: a minimum of 1350 PFU (plaque forming units) of Oka/Merck varicella virus when reconstituted and stored at room temperature for 30 minutes, approximately 25 mg of sucrose, 12.5 mg hydrolyzed gelatin, 3.2 mg sodium chloride, 0.5 mg monosodium L-glutamate, 0.45 mg of sodium phosphate dibasic, 0.08 mg of potassium phosphate monobasic, 0.08 mg of potassium chloride; residual components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein; and trace quantities of sodium phosphate monobasic, EDTA, neomycin, and fetal bovine serum. The product contains no preservative."

"VAQTA* [Hepatitis A Vaccine, Inactivated] is an inactivated whole virus vaccine derived from hepatitis A virus (HAV) grown in cell culture in human MRC-5 diploid fibroblasts."

"M-M-R* II (Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Virus Vaccine Live) is a live virus vaccine for vaccination against measles (rubeola), mumps, and rubella (German measles). M-M-R II is a sterile lyophilized preparation of (1) ATTENUVAX* (Measles Virus Vaccine Live), a more attenuated line of measles virus, derived from Enders' attenuated Edmonston strain and propagated in chick embryo cell culture; (2) MUMPSVAX* (Mumps Virus Vaccine Live), the Jeryl Lynn** (B level) strain of mumps virus propagated in chick embryo cell culture; and (3) MERUVAX* II (Rubella Virus Vaccine Live), the Wistar RA 27/3 strain of live attenuated rubella virus propagated in WI 38 human diploid lung fibroblasts.1,2"

Yep, them mad scientists also brewed up penicillin, first concoted from bread mold. That's a living organism, or don't you believe in the existence of mold either? I guess if you were dying of infection you wouldn't alow them to inject any of that " animal filth" into you either. Right?

Our first grandson was born premature and weighed 2 lbs. Unfortunately my daughter-in-law did what she was told by her doctor and went ahead with vaccinations. First one sent him to the hospital, but she was told it was not related to the vaccine. After the second vaccine and a second trip to the hospital she did some research.

This was about ten years ago, but at the time there was no research done on the effects of vaccination of premature infants. In other words they had no clue how a premature infant would react to the vaccine.

Do the research, it may not hurt to wait until the child is at least past his first year, maybe more.

Good Luck and Congrats on your little one.

I am thinking we should let it drop. The main provocatuer is not answering direct questions when asked about why viruses don't exist.. etc.
We will not agree on this at all.. not tonight, not tomorrow, not before, not after..
There are some segments of the population that have different beliefs based on other certain beliefs and that is fine.

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"Superstitious theory? I'm old enough to well remember the horror wreaked by polio, diphtheria, cholera and other deadly diseases that have been pretty well controlled by vaccination. Smallpox has presumably been eradicated by vaccination, or do you believe it went extinct because of a meteor strike or the pollution we humans create?"

AND WHO TOLD YOU THIS?? THE PARTY LINE IS COMING FROM THE SAME SOURCE. YOU GUYS ARE LIKE A BUNCH OF PARROTS REPEATING THE SAME LIES OVER AND OVER ONLY BECAUSE THE STATE SAITH.

Would you like read some material about smallpox that refutes the popular theory?

"If there is no such thing as a virus or germs, or healthy people can't be infected, as you seem to assert, please share your ideas as to how disease is spread amongst the population."

First of all I never said there is no such thing as a virus or germs. Can a healthy person be infected with some virus, germ, cootie or whatever? No. Disease is spread by the poisoned needle!! Read the book, The Poisoned Needle, by Eleanor McBean. Make a fire and grab some coffee or tea while you're at it.

"Is it bad juju, wicked little elves, noxious miasmas, evil spirits? Please enlighten us poor superstitious folks."

Well the germ theory is what replaced the above superstitions.

"I am familiar with a sad case of a healthy young girl who raped by a sicko that was infected with HIV. She was infected with HIV and now has full blown AIDS as a result of that rape."

Who told you this?

"What sort of vaccination would you attribute her AIDS to, or do you consider rape to be an "vaccination" of sorts? The only "animal filth" this poor child had been exposed to was the filthy animal that assaulted her."

Not sure what you mean here, but I do agree that a rapist could be described as a filthy animal, and hellbound sinner.

"I all too vividly remember the blind, terribly retarded child a neighbor lady gave birth to after she contracted measles while pregnant. Couldn’t blame it on a vaccination, she never had one."

Short on info here for me to comment.

"And the poor woman spent the rest of her life blaming herself for her son’s condition because she didn’t get a simple measles shot."

Again, the assumption is all based on the germ theory, that this lady was infected with a measles virus and that a measles vaccine would have prevented her getting the so-called measles.

"Denying the existence of “virus” and“ germs” is either incredibly naïve or…????"

Never denied their existence. Putting your faith in medical gods who say that invisible cooties are flying around hurting people is naive.

Reason: Not conforming to "Herd Mentality."

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/new...eply&p=3647634

I do believe this was a statement made by you... please. Adhere.

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Vaccination Condemned

(Better Life Research, 1981)

by Eleanor McBean


(Pages 286-287, 302-303)


Regarding THE MANUFACTURE OF VACCINES, we have an item from THE VACCINATION INQUIRER, Vol. 94-No. 909:

“A calf, three months old is strapped to a tilting table which is then raised to a horizontal position. Cuts are then made in the skin from the neck to the tail portion 100 perpendicular or 30 horizontal. Into each cut a drop of vaccine lymph is rubbed. The animal is then taken to its stable and its head is enclosed in slats to prevent it following its natural instinct and licking the sores that form. Sometimes sheep and not calves are used for lymph production. What is called lymph is really not lymph at all but diluted pus.”



The following is another account, as given by the Harbison Anti-Vivisection Group:HOW SMALLPOX VACCINE IS MADE:

“A calf is tied down to an operating table, the stomach is shaved from twelve to fifteen inches square, and about one hundred incisions are made. Into these incisions one drop of glycerinated lymph (a culture of smallpox passed through a solution of glycerine) is allowed to drop in and is thoroughly rubbed in. Fever sets in, and the animal becomes exceedingly sick. In a few days the vesicles appear, the scabs form, and the elimination of impurities of various kinds from the blood of the calf begins, in the form of pus, which is thrown out of the blood into the vesicles. At the end of six days the process of elimina-tion has proceeded so far that the vesicles are full of pus, putrid cells, etc., and a scab has formed over the reservoir of disease. The calf is once more bound and laid upon the operating table. The inoculated area is washed with warm water, and each vesicle is clasped with clamps, separately. The crust is care-fully scraped with the edge of a steel instrument and the dead skin, lymph, poisonous pus and blood that are exuded are transferred to a small crucible. To this toxic mass of putrid matter is added an equal measure of glycerine, and the mass is then thoroughly stirred and mixed by a small electric motor. As soon as it is rendered homogeneous, it is placed in another crucible and passed through a very fine sieve, in order to remove the coarse pieces of rotten flesh, hair, etc.; then the mixture is again stirred — thoroughly mixed, transferred to tubes, and distributed through-out the country as pure calf lymph, when in reality there is no such thing as pure lymph. It is this rotten stuff that our health boards, schoolboards and family physician insist upon having introduced directly into the circulation of the blood of millions of school children every year.”

All during these weeks, the calf is suffering intense pain and deathly sickness, but is not allowed to even lie down. It is boarded up in a standing position, day and night. Even if the vaccines were any good, it would not justify this barbaric cruelty. The vaccine-makers try to justify their actions by claiming that their killing and torturing of animals is right if it saves human lives. But it does not save lives, as the making of drugs by this process takes them in the wrong direction—away from cure. The vaccines, being poison, always do more damage than good. There is no justification for vivisection and other animal torture, because there are already other safer and more successful methods of healing without vaccinating, drug-testing and other crude experi-mental treatments. (McBean)


From H.V. Knaggs, Smallpox - A Healing Crisis (1924):

“Diphtheria anti-toxin is supposed to consist of serum taken from a (medically infected) horse. The process of manufactur-ing the serum calls for the use of an antiseptic to arrest the putrefaction, therefore TRIKERSOL, one of the most powerful antiseptic poisons, is added to the fluid. The manufacturer cannot make the vaccine without using this very dangerous coal-tar product, and they dare not admit to the public that it has been added.”

No wonder the vaccine causes crib deaths, paralysis, brain-damage and other disasters.


MORE ABOUT HOW DIPHTHERIA VACCINE IS MADE.

It is hard to find any one source which tells all about how vaccines are made, so I have had to get bits of information piecemeal, some from labs, some from researchers, doctors, and others who know something about it. (McBean)


From THE CALIFORNIA HEALTH DIGEST (1939) we read:

“In the manufacture of diphtheria vaccine, they inject from four to seven drops of diphtheria processed serum into the jugular vein of the horse's neck. This causes extreme sickness in the horse. (This is continued at intervals.) After about six months of this procedure, they draw off about six pints of the horse's blood. This is allowed to stand and settle, which causes the solid part to sink to the bottom. They then take the fluid part and use it for injections.”


Another account is from THE VACCINATION INQUIR-ER (England) for December 1972:

“Diphtheria antitoxin: A horse is prepared for blood sapping (as they call it) by a course of gradual poisoning with the throat excretions of patients who are suffering from diphtheria. The poison is administered only a little at the first injection, but day by day the dose is increased until the limit is reached. That is when the horse is diseased, sick, and almost ready to fall from weakness. Then the tappings begin and are kept up until the horse's blood is sapped by weekly blood letting. To obtain thisblood the animal's head is stoutly secured, a spot is selected on the left side of the horse's neck immediately over a large blood vessel and a sharp pointed half inch tube about 12 inches long is driven in by force. Large quantities of blood are removed and the process is repeated until the horse is exhausted and unfit for further similar use.”

Hmm.. Interesting. The cited source (Vaccinations and the Physicians' Desk Reference: Who Will Tell the Parents? by Barbara Flynn, MBA) for this website hasn't been published. That website doesn't carry it, Amazon.com doesn't carry it and nothing comes up when I Googled it. The author, Barbara Flynn's background? A bachelors in Math Education and a MBA in Finance. A former Citibank auditor and banking consultant.

Ya know, maybe I would be better off asking the Chief Financial Officer at my employer for vaccination advice. He's got a Bachelors & a MBA degree in Finance plus he is a CPA and he's a Dad.
NOT.

I'll stick with my doctor's advice. He's been doctoring for 40 years, teaches at the Medical School and doesn't prescribe anything extra. He and I have both seen what Polio can do to healthy children and know the value of vaccines.
deb
in wi

EXACTLY!! The vaccinators operate under the threat of violence, not the anti-vaccinators!! Don't insult and ridicule me for not conforming to the state religion.

Vaccination is a global agenda and the needle squirters have the backing of nearly every police force including the military division.

Ummm... the thread I quoted is from awhile back where you said you don't force your belief on others. The original poster asked a nice question. She got plenty of nice answers. You have repeatedly badgered this subjects with oscure medical practices from the 20's and 30's. You need to update your library. Seriously.
We understand that you have deep religious beliefs and we respect that. But what is getting to most of us is the aggression that is considered quite rude in any group of friends and especially from a newbie.
PLease, step back and be with us for awhile and get to know us before such an aggessive response to a gentle question by a new and concerned mother.

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From Dr. Joseph Mercola at http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/statistics.htm

Everyday millions of children are lined up and injected with toxic putrid substances grown on animal organs, cancer cells, aborted fetuses and other toxic substances. Few people are questioning how those viruses were obtained and how they were grown in a laboratory. If one would ask these sensible questions, one would become very enlightened about vaccine production. I warn you now, discussing vaccine-production will turn your stomach. Vaccines are made from the most vilest and filthiest substances on the earth. Since the definition of abomination is "anything that is filthy", the term describes vaccinations adequately and truthfully. The vaccine "cauldron" is full of putrid junk from bodies exposed to disease and excreting morbid purulence. Science gathers this junk up in hopes of making vaccines for "preventing" disease; and we are being fooled while vaccinations cause increases in diseases.

First, pathogenic (disease-causing) viruses will not grow on healthy "soil" (the medium). If the environment is correct within our body, the virulent viruses and disease-causing germs will not grow. For example, hepatitis virus does not grow on a side-walk, nor in a healthy person. To make the vaccine, the manufacturers have to get the virus from somewhere, so they get them from persons with hepatitis. Makes sense. [The first hepatitis vaccines (of the 70s) were grown from the blood of the gay community, since they had high levels of hepatitis.] Today, they are much more "sophisticated", they just gather up bodily excrements from persons with hepatitis and culture the virus. Which excrements?

... Use your imagination: urine, blood, feces, pus and other excrements. In vaccine production anything goes. (How about cadaver organs and blood of persons who died of hepatitis?)

Once the virus is gathered, it must be grown on a toxic medium ... remember pathogens will not grow on healthy tissue. The medium used is generally animal organs and tissues combined with the proper culture medium and "nutrients". BHK (baby hamster kidney) cells, monkey kidneys, HeLa cells (cancer cells from Henrietta Lacks), aborted fetal tissues (used in the rubella vaccine called RA 27/3) and other animal organs are used in vaccine production. [Remember it is the foreign animal genetic materials that make vaccines so dangerous.] Once the virus has been grown, it is inactivated with formaldehyde (a potent carcinogen) or other agent. Other substances (adjuvants) may be added to the vaccines, like mercury (thimerosal), phenol, aluminum, antibiotics, and other ingredients which promote the vaccine’s effectiveness. All these substances are unnatural, synthetic, and immune suppressing, and some are even carcinogenic. The production of vaccine ‘lymph’ has been the main function of producing vaccines in the laboratory. Viruses don’t grow well in healthy individuals and toxic (un-healthy) cultures must be used. For example, mice bred to get cancer don’t get cancer unless they are fed a nutrient deficient diet. Now that means that we don’t have to get cancer either, as long as we eat a good nutritious diet. (See Psalms 139:14)

Therefore, first viruses are grown in toxic culture medium, which supports their activity and allows their growth and metabolism. Most pathogens live under anaerobic (toxic) conditions (absence of oxygen) and would die in the presence of oxygen. Therefore, as one builds health, develops good nutrition and exercise (breathing), more oxygen is delivered to the tissues and pathogens cannot grow there. This is what we mean when we say it is the "soil" which is important to our health. "The terrain is everything", Pasteur conceded on his death bed. Yet vaccine production includes many un-natural and toxic ingredients, which we would never knowingly put into our body. Naturopathic principles (and common sense) do not include the injection of viruses grown on toxic animal tissues.

Vaccinations are biological agents made from the filth of the earth, from diseased organs and sick animals and people. These toxins are injected in a person in order to increase their antibodies against that disease and produce immunity. Yet, scientists have very little understanding of what immunity is and what makes a strong immune system. Nutrition is key in any immune enhancing program, but they ignore nutrition (herbs/vitamins/foods) in favor of profitable injections. Vaccines do more to "sensitize" than to "immunize" for they contain many toxic ingredients that cause sensitizing reactions, like allergies and anaphylaxis. As you read these citations, think about the sensitizing effects of those toxic (foreign) substances present in vaccines. Mercury has been cited as causing auto-immune conditions and increases the ANA titre (used to diagnose Lupus). Allergy/anaphylaxis is merely severe sensitization to the materials present in vaccines. All vaccines depress the immune system and contain harmful and toxic ingredients that may cause allergic or sensitizing reactions. But how can depressing the immune system create immunity to disease? We are fooled if we think that it can. Vaccines Prevent Heath!

Allergies have been said to be related to the larger protein molecules circulating within our blood stream, and vaccinations place large (foreign) sized protein molecules with in the blood stream. During the process of digestion these protein molecules are broken down so that circulating immune complexes are not a problem. Leaky gut syndrome is linked to allergies because it allows the gut to pass large protein molecules into the blood stream. These are then filtered out by the lymph-nodes and may cause problems there such as lymphadenitis. Clogged lymphatics cannot support the cellular immune system composed of the white blood cells and lymph. Therefore, allergies compromise the immune system and reduce immunity. The lymph also carries nutrients to the tissues and is the transportation medium for fats in our body. Every cell needs high quality fats, which should come from unprocessed foods and natural sources.

Horowitz states, "Most parents who feed their children properly would not let them eat a food which contained any of the many ingredients of immunizations." Koren noted, "Some of the ingredients in childhood vaccines are: thimerosal (mercury disinfectant/preservative), aluminum (additive to promote antibody response), formaldehyde (disinfectant), ethylene glycol (antifreeze) phenol (disinfectant, dye) benzethonium chloride (antiseptic) and methylparaben (antifungal, preservative).

You think making vaccine is bad, you should read up on making cheese!

Honey... that is just someone's opinion. Just like you say the drs theories are just opinions. Ooooh... I just noticed that he is a DR too..
And I certainly hope you only drink organic milk.. if you don't, you should study up.. you won't like the percentages of blood and pus found in a store brand gallon of milk..ewwww.

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I am gioing to temporarily close this thread and let everyone cool down.

I will open the thread tomorrow. I will assign infractions to anyone if he or she continues to attack other members for thier beliefs ont his topic.

I will also re-close this thread tomorrow if its tone continues in the uncivil and disrespectful manner in which it was left tonight.

Go cool off and when you come back tomorrow, post as if you're visiting with the others in their livingrooms.

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Remember: respect, understanding and consideration. Your side on an issue will be more likely accepted if it is expressed with a tone of caring and courtesy as opposed to "in your face."

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This is the government the Founding Fathers warned us about.....

You don't have to believe me, you don't have to believe the web site, you don't even have to believe the link to the CDC. All you have to do to make an informed choice is to go to your Dr. and get the package inserts and read them yourself. Be warned you will need a good set of reading glasses as most inserts are in -16 font and about 40% gray scale.

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I told Cabin Fever I wouldn't post here, but I think I can keep it civil.

To the people claiming that vaccines cause autism, I would like to remind you that correlation does not imply causality. No matter how many times people say "OMG the preservatives/mercury etc causes autism" it doesn't make it true. There are people who have devoted their entire lives to learning how to fight disease for the good of the human race who are being told by people with no medical training at all that they are wrong. Please research both sides of an issue before speaking on an issue as important as vaccinations.

As for how diseases are transmitted, I find some poster's uninformed opinions quite scary.

I wouldn't tell you that 'the right thing to do' is have your child vaccinated. What I will tell you is that you should make an informed decision after taking one's 'tin-foil hat' off. Doctors are not out to get you, they want to keep kids healthy and happy. As much as I dislike the large pharmaceutical companies (for reasons having nothing to do with vaccines, and everything to do with suppression of research on certain plants that could prove to be great medicine), I don't believe that they are out to hurt anyone either.

As for putting "toxic putrid substances grown on animal organs, cancer cells, aborted fetuses and other toxic substances" into your body, do you know why polio originally became a problem? It's because people started to be clean. (Second and third paragraph in link.)

I hope that this stays far enough away from attacking anyone's perspective directly. I also hope that people reading this will attempt to open their minds to new information.