farming practices that are illegal for us right now

In 100% agreement with your post. You can't do things one way for one group of people and another for some others. One set of rules one set of laws, and that then pertains to all. Makes things better all the way around. And just that some states have stronger laws so? That IS the States Rights to do that now isn't it?

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Oh my, dishes yet to wash and dry

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Suppose I have a next door neighbor, Bob ... spelled with one "o" ... we each have 20 acres.

Bob lives in a shack.

I live in an Oehler structure. Neither are up to code.

Bob's hygiene is ... questionable by some ... including me ... and both of us are selling bacon we have raised.

Folks can either buy their bacon from the USDA route, or from folks like bob and me. Our food says "eat at your own risk". If folks are gonna leave the USDA space, then they agree to take this risk. In which case, they probably wanna have a look around at how things are done.

Howzabout something where the farmer is offered classes in farm hygiene. And an extension agent can come out and look the place over, visit with the farmer and provide some sort of statement of the quality/cleanliness?

I think simply making it illegal is a problem.

And I think this thread isn't about solving these problems, but to list the restrictions in place that are currently hindering us unjustly.

I think there is a lot to be said for many laws. And I think there are a lot of laws that unnecessarily cramping my style. And the reason might be tied more to somebody somewhere making big money, than to honestly protect people.

It is wrong to tell me that I cannot sell my bacon. It would be fair to say that I have to label it to say "NOT USDA approved - consume at your own risk."

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[raising chickens] [diatomaceous earth] [permaculture] [rocket mass heater] [lawn care]

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Yes. States can go more stringent/picky than federal laws & regulations....but they can't have more lenient policies/laws/regulations than the federal equivalents.

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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons...for you are crunchy and good with ketchup!

You might start by addressing the sole issue in most of these regulations:

How are you going to get paid for your services/substances?

If you use private government credit (federal reserve notes) I would expect the government can and will tell you what they can be used for.

If you use private exchange (barter/gold/silver/copper pennies) expect the exchange to be considered private as well.

Isnt that exactly what the USDA inspectors do?

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

palani, no city here. Call me slow if you wish but I don't get "Otherwise, why are you volunteering into a status that injures you?" I'm not volunteering into anything, unless I'm missing something.

I have read the requirements for a processing shop for Ohio. Pretty lenient, IMO. Just have to be able to hose down walls, ceiling, and floor. Have a septic and disposal system that will handle the waste and water. And the gross part, wash water can be reused as long as it is filtered to remove solids and treated to kill pathogens. Bodily fluids, blood, and solids must be removed from the processing area before working on the next animal.

For certain buildings I don't need a permit. I could set up a 10ft by 15ft processing building and not have to get a permit or inspection. Run the building off the electric from the house and tie the water and sewage lines into the house lines. It is something we are considering just so I don't have to process in my kitchen sink.

On topic, I would really like to be able to buy land and then camp on it while I built a small house. Many places make that illegal, forcing you to rent somewhere at great expense until your new dwelling is finished and has received a certificate of occupancy. If you are on a very tight budget, that's a severe hardship.

Semi-on-topic, it's legal, with some restrictions, to sell raw milk here in Oregon, but I won't do it because of the fear of being sued by someone who gets sick and blames the raw milk.

Kathleen

Seems like anyone's health and economic interests would be best served if we could buy bacon from our good neighbor Paul. We would know him personally and if his product was high quality, We could brag to neighbors and friends, Paul would prosper which is a sensible outcome and a solid American concept. Come to think about it, Because he mentioned it, I believe he has some carefully cured bacon in his smokehouse and I want to buy 5 pounds. Just let me know the price. Do you accept PayPal?...Glen

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The more a man travels, acquires wisdom and learns about life, the more likely he is to marry a Country Girl.

My house was built over a hundred years ago and it is still standing. No codes needed. Sure there are some things that make me scratch my head once in a while but the place is still standing strong. While in the process of selling my other property the head county planning and zoning official told me that they were just about going to send me a letter telling me to remove my mobile home because it was in some wetlands. Funny thing is that a few years ago when I first bought the place there was only an acre and a half of wetland and now there is suddenly 4 acres. I have the original maps from the first time I went into the county and asked about it. I guess the DNR has a new wetland type area. It doesn't necessarily have to be wet all the time, doesn't need to have any sort of wetland plants. It just needs to be a little soggy longer than usual. Used to be you could fill in a wetland if it was under 10 acres, then it went to 5, and now it has to be under an acre. I guess the DNR had to prove to the State that the amount of money it had spent on wetland restoration was actually doing something. So what better way to "restore" wetlands then to make up a new definition of what a wetland is. It is stuff like this that gets me tickered

As far as raw milk goes, around here it is illegal to sell it in Wisconsin so what most people do is either state it isn't for human consumption or they have regular customers who "buy" into the farm and become part owner.

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http://www.xanga.com/shackman A blog about whatever

Draining land has been very difficult since the late 1980's. Wetland laws. This is nationwide, tho your local people are the ones to enforce or ignore it. My state enforces to beyond the letter of the law.

Anything near a wetland has extreme regulations on it, and needs onsite inspection & permits.

Septic systems in this state have become very regulated, in my county you really only are allowed a mound system & you are not allowed to do any of the work yourself.

My county has very tough building permit regulations - the codes are not bad, but they want to collect heavy fees for any building bigger than 8x12, doesn't matter if it's portable or not, and supposed to re-permit it if you move it!

Shallow wells were phased out back in the late 1970's 'here'.

Meat & milk sales have several restrictions - not the worst I've read of on here, but some restrictions. I think meat sales are pretty difficult - you need to sell the live animal before any butchering starts. (Eggs & greens are pretty easy tho, pretty free-wheeling on those.)

Several attacks have come on potluck & church group type of food sales. So far they are still allowed, but the attacks keep coming.

Sales tax collection is a real thing, can hamper a lot of homestead type transactions. Food is not sales-taxed, but many beverages, candy, and dessert type of things now are taxed - and any soap or other such should be, so it affects what you sell. They kinda kept a blind eye to this; but I think the stuff is going to hity the fan as the state is going broke & needs to collect more & more.

Registered seed cannot be sold. You can save it for your own seed, but cannot sell it for others to grow. Most _all_ seed is registered these days. (Not to be confused with licenced seed, which is the GMO stuff which you can't legally save for your own seed.)

Well, that's a start. I can probably think of more.

--->Paul

Growing hemp for the seed/food for personal use or sale!
One of the most nutritious seeds on earth and it's illegal to grow!

Grows like a 'weed' on otherwise poor land.

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UK 2005:Treasury Dept./Trade and Industry survey concluded: 3.6 m gay people in the UK/~6% of the total population/1 in 16.66
Biblical Argument for the Acceptance of Homosexuality

I want to sell eggs in used egg containers with someone else’s name brand on it.
I want to cure bacon in my smoker made out of a refrigerator, on racks coated with chromium and be able to sell it just like the USDA inspected stuff.
I want to butcher chickens on my picnic table and sell them at the Farmer’s Market.
I want to sell home canned tomatoes and without pesky Health Department poking around my kitchen.
I want to sell my home grown fruits and vegetables at the Farmers Markets without the pesky Fruit and Produce Inspectors the “big boys” have to deal with. (Oops, I can)
I want to sell fruit trees without being licensed to do it like the big nurseries have to do.
I want to be able to market my beef to the public without having it processed in an inspected slaughter facility like the big operations do.
I want my cattle to stand in my creek when they get a drink, but I want the big guys to have their livestock fenced away from the streams and regular water samples taken. (Opps,I can)
I want to raise my chickens in an old shed with a moldy, leaky roof, farrow my pigs under an old pickup truck, but make the factory farms conform to air quality standards. (Oops, I can)

however did humanity survive before people like you came along?
If someone is selling bad food, I figure word of mouth, would kill their sales quicker than anything else.
Oh Nanny, Oh Nanny, or is it O Mammy?
How many people want to live all of they're life in a germ free plastic bubble?
Dont go outside there are people & germs, not to mention the carbon monoxide, its safer to stay in the closet.
And whatever you do, dont eat any food or meat that doesn't come wrapped in plastic from your favorite store

Touch a nerve did I?

We tried that "word of mouth" method of insuring healthy food about 80 years ago. It didn't work out too good. People died, lots of them.

I'm not the one afraid to venture outside into the real world. My concern is with folks that want regulation for others and a free pass for themselves. People that refuse to think thru just why some regulations are there in the first place.

If you want to enter commerce, sell your products, expect regulation. Now when a rule or law is made that gives an unfair advantage to the corporate producers, that's a different story. I can ride with you on that. But to expect others to be regulated while we run free, isn't realistic.IMHO

Ive got an idea, regulations should be voluntary,if you pass you get a card from the state saying you passed, & you & youre customers can pay all the fees that go along with that.
If a person chooses to buy products from a site that isnt approved well that's on them.

I assure you if some-one sells bad meat, milk or eggs, or produce, they wont be in business for long.
Just because a business has a permit, does not insure integrity. We have a show on the local news called "Dirty Dining" its about resturaunts that have all the permits they need to sell food & sell some of the nastiest germ filled food a person can ingest.They are still in business, just got a slap on the wrist because they have a permit & they are sorry.

Mean while health officials are rousting grannys at local church baking socials,because they didnt bake their bread/cakes/whatever in a state liscensed kitchen.

We also have a town butcher that swaps out prime beef for low grade, meaning you bring in a well fed organically raised steer or hog & get something else in return.
He sells meat packages & they are some of the worst things I have ever eaten.
Hey he's got a liscence & a permit to run shop, so I guess its all okay

That's why Food Lion is out of business, right? Remember back in the 80's when they finally got busted for bleaching and painting rotting meat?

And the Peanut Corporation of America went bust from selling icky peanuts. People balked and refused to buy them, so the company went bankrupt. What, that isn't what happened?

No, I can think of many people and businesses that sell bad meat, milk, eggs, produce, cars, houses, surgeries, dentures, software, etc. They stay in business and are quite profitable.

People without integrity are just that, & they get figured out pretty quick

But Hey if you want to live with a perpetual Nanny, well go for it, just dont legislate it onto the rest of us

How beautifully simple! I like it.

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"I will not be afraid of ten thousands of people, that have set themselves against me round about." -- Psalm 3:6, KJV

Freedom Advocates: Recognize Unalienable Rights

I never said I did, and if you'd read my posts, you'll see I'm pretty strongly anti-nanny state.

That does not change the fact that you are wrong believing businesses that sell bad products will be out of business soon. I gave you some quick examples of businesses engaged or engaging in exactly that which thrived just fine.

People without integrity are indeed figured out. They are then promoted to powerful leadership positions via public elections and given control over others.

Unless they're in politics, then they get re-elected.

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CJ