Would #6 shot 12 gauge shells be adequate enough

LOL And how will he KNOW what's in YOUR gun?

When logic fails, just babble aimlessy

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Nevada...I most heartily concur....

No offense.. But IMHO... If this thread is pumped full of any more testosterone... It's gonna sprout whiskers.....

I don't mean to challenge the masculinity of any of the posters here.... But let's forward a few alternate notions... How many here have killed another human being in war or self defense?....How many have been in an actual life or death firefight?... OK.... How many have looked down the barrel of a loaded weapon in the grasp of a hostile adversary?..... How many have had a home invasion?... While you were asleep in your bed?.....

Chances are good that not too many here have experienced any of the above... An hopefully never will...

My belief is that most would verbalize their presence to an intruder prior to busting a cap in their butt. If verbalization didn't work they would then escalate to firepower..... I tend to agree with Nevada.... Unless you are dealing with a Methed up (And I'm not lisping here ) desperado.... you will probably scare the living excrement out of them just by making your presence known.... IMHO.... They would probably wet themselves if you then jacked a round into a 12 gauge......

Any road..... The most dangerous aspect of a shotgun... IMHO... Is that it is in the hands of someone who knows how to use it and has the will to pull the trigger.... With Ice water in their veins.... Not butterflies in their stomach.....

Maybe it might just be safer and more advisable to save up some coins and invest in a first response of a different variety.... Rather than arguing the relative merits and maiming/killing power of a tool that could just fall into the wrong hands in a tight.....

http://www.internationalk9imports.co...gsforsale.html

Ne vous fâchez pas, s'il vous plait... Just my $.02

If your worried about "evil ammo" and what someone might say about it, find out what the police are using and use the same thing. That way the :"killer" ammo argument cant be brought up.

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Gary in Central Ohio

x2. If you've got intruders in the house, there's no need to warn anybody.

Testosterone or not, you have a choice to make in a split second, defend your home or don't. Regardless the "masculinity", I don't think anybody wants to go thru horror the taking of another human life, the impact such an event would have on you, your home and your family or the possible outcomes rehashed thereafter.

The sound of a pump or warning shot is not a smart defense without knowing what's going thru the head of the intruder. The intentions of a person bold enough to enter an occupied home cannot be logically anticipated. There could be any number of mitigating factors controlling a perpetrators mind (drugs, mental instability, desperation, etc) and all could be completely irrational. Thinking YOUR logic can be applied to an intruders mind is a recipe for disaster.

The only parts of the scenario you have control over are your own actions. A person that chooses to bring out a firearm for self defense should be ready to use lethal force and be prepared for the consequences. Hesitation and indecision will only exacerbate the intrusion and endanger you and your family more. If the latter is the case, keep the guns locked in a safe and come up with another plan (safe room, 911, dog, etc).

If you shoot em, you'd better make sure you kill em, or you may find yourself being charged with endangering a criminal and being sued ala Bernie Geitz.

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United states of America

Born July 4, 1776

Died November 4, 2008

Suicide

Well despite your posturing, people use firearms very frequently to defend themselves without the benefit of:

Having killed another human being in war or self defense.
Having been in an actual life or death firefight.
Having looked down the barrel of a loaded weapon in the grasp of a hostile adversary.
Having had a home invasion.

I guess there's just a first time for everything.

Lets say for the sake of discussion the OP has the fortitude to use his shotgun despite lacking the above experience or any formal training. Lets say the verbal warning didn't work, racking the slide didn't work, no one defecated and ran from his house.

It has come down to him or a determined opponent.

Do you feel #6 shot is adequate, and why?

Cause that's what the question is.

The "it doesn't matter" because you'll never use it argumant is really pretty weak. Why not just take it a step further and not keep a gun at all?

Chuck

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Might does not make right, but it sure makes what is.

You can't "knock a man down" with a baseball bat either but hitting him in the chest will stop him.

Know anyone who has been shot while wearing a soft bullet "proof"

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Remember, when seconds count. . .
the police are just MINUTES away!

Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. . .Davy Crockett

www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Page 8, US DEPT of Justice, Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness.

The often referred to “knockdown power” implies the ability of a bullet to move its target. This is nothing more than momentum of the bullet. It is the transfer of momentum that will cause a target to move in response to the blow received. ……… …….A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics and has been known for hundreds of years. The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball.

This article really is a good read and well worth the time.

Here’s another:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ykc...sult#PPA174,M1

Check out page 174

Depending on your stance, balance, movement etc you can be “knocked down” by being hit by a baseball too.

Chuck

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Might does not make right, but it sure makes what is.

The recommendation from self defense people and law enforcement is to use #8 shot. The reason being it is less likely to penetrate a wall into the next room an injure another family member.

Bob

you did say home defense right. So you are talkiing about very close shooting. I use turkey loads also. I have a 20 ga with a 18 inch barrel. My grandpa always told me aim for the legs. you probally wont kill em and hes not going to ever go into anyone eles place ever agian. Makes the police job ezier too. Word has it a lot of guys in my area have people tring to take livestock at night so I keep the .204 ruger handy for blasing windows out. Pray to God i would never have to do it, but with times getting tight its time to watch your neighbors.

Now here is a statement I can argue against. You shoot his legs out, you buy his crutches for the rest of his life. Plus, the attorney gets you on the stand when the cripple sues you. He asks why you shot his legs. To wound him. Oh, so you didn't want to kill him, just put him in indescribable pain for the rest of his life?

When you shoot someone, you shoot to kill, or else you didn't need to shoot. Then when the police finally arrive, when they ask, you say you wanted to stop the threat. Don't say you wanted to kill him or wound him. Just you wanted to stop him. Anything else and they make you out as bloodthirsty.

And always use factory loads. They will also tear you apart as a maniac if you reload for home defense, sitting in his basement, brewing up special man killer loads. I reload everything I shoot, except all my self defense weapons have an expensive box of factory ammo.

Yeah Jross....

But I tend to look at it this way.... In the aftermath of a dead or alive intruder.....

Excuse me Chuck......If I indulge myself jus a skosh while responding to your opening statement......

Well Duhhh!......

I hope that ya'll got a chance ta see my good side while I was posturing, whilst delivering the...... Well Duhhh!...... Response to your opening statement....


I do believe that I have already offered my views in regards to the question of the usage of #6 shot for home defense......

Chuck.... Old boy...... Sounds to me like you have a chip on your shoulder the size of Texas..... IMHO.... Having an itchy trigger finger is a matter of personal choice... I was merely attempting to put forth a few alternate ideas as a form of food for thought.....

Speaking of food for thought... Perhaps your first line of home defense should be to crank up the volume...

My view is that although #6 shot MIGHT be effective, I know that buckshot or slugs WILL get the job done. When my life is at risk I don't want something that MIGHT save my life.

Cotton Picker,

I’ve got to admit, your last post left me speechless for a minute, there’s not even a large enough shred of logic for me to attempt to pick apart.

Again, what does your post # 62 have do with choosing #6 shot for SD?

What actual research have you dug up to support your argument?

If you’re going to post Tactical Briefs #10, October 1998 again, at least post the main theme of the article which is not to choose birdshot.

What does choosing a REM 870 have to do with choosing #6 shot?

You are the one that brought the “prerequisites” into play with your post number 62. Now you’re saying: Well Duhhh! So which is it? Important like post #62 or now it doesn’t matter?

No chip here, just trying to inject a few facts and some research to support my opinions.

Chuck

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Might does not make right, but it sure makes what is.

#6 is the only thing needed....

This is for home defense, If they are farther than 20 feet they aren't a threat to your life. If the are doing anything but coming at you and attacking you, they aren't being a threat to your life.

You will spend lots of jail time if you aren't truly threatened.


Before you say it... If they are outside your home with a long gun firing at your house from a distance..... Leave the lights off and get the deer rifle.

A load of #6 beats the heck out of an empty shotgun. If that is what you have, use it, if you can , use bigger shot. As a kid, I once shot a cottontail with a 20ga and 7 1/2 shot, about 20 feet away, couldn't find much of it but a few tufts of fur and some blood. Up close and personal, the shot won't have time to spread out to a pattern, and will basically be one big chunk of lead.

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"Agriculture is our wisest pursuit, because it will in the end contribute most to real wealth, good morals, and happiness."
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1787

ED,
to be forward if you are living in a world where you think you can take another mans life and not have repercusions you should look around. I hope to never have to use force, but I do have a college degree in CJ and I could show you many cases where unless that man has shot at or shot you and you shoot that man dead there is no threat in the eyes of the law and you are not justifded to take that life. You can never take a life over property and if you shoot an unarmed man you might as well have shot him in the street. Im not saying wounding is the answer, but he can still see the sunrise.

Know your state's law but in most cases if you feel in danger of grievous bodily harm or death you have the right to use deadly force. Some New England states did (still do) have "must retreat" laws where you must be cornered with no chance to run away before you can use any force at all.

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Remember, when seconds count. . .
the police are just MINUTES away!

Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. . .Davy Crockett

Prerequisites... Eh?

I cannot help but be amused by the allegation that I am establishing the rules of engagement for another as it pertains to personal defense against threats to their life, limb, property and/or loved ones....

It is still a relatively free country.... One can still purchase, up to and including, a .50 cal rifle and ammo.... And each one still possess an individual free moral agency....

You have every right to express your opinions in regards to the potential rules of engagement.... As do I... And then leave up it to the reader to express and/or practice, their own

I neither know, nor do I care to learn, of your background... It's just that IMHO... Trigger-happy rhetoric as it pertains to the proper shot size for the expressed purpose of the taking of another human life.... Justifiably or not.... With no more forethought than the casual shooting of a tweety bird..... Amounts to an adolescent, chest thumping, machismo... That fails to fully take into account the full ramifications of said actions....

Ne vous fâchez pas, s'il vous plait... Just my $.02