Would #6 shot 12 gauge shells be adequate enough

There are all sorts of Tests on penetration with different Shotgun loads at the Box O'Truth.Lots of reading on pistol rounds too. Even one on the Taurus 45Colt/.410 ga.
It's good reading if you have the time.
You can find it at..............

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

They recommend using Buck shot instead of game loads or birdshot.
I live out in the country, rural location.
I'll stick with Buckshot, out here.

__________________
Be Intense, always. But always take the time to
Smell the Roses, give a Hug, Really Listen, or
Jump to Defend your Friends & What you Believe in.
'Til later, Have Fun,
Old John

FYI
A Remington 870, stock, with out mag extensions, holds 5 rounds, 4 in the mag (tube), 1 in the chamber, WITH out duck plug.

Both of mine came with the duck plug, in the mag from the factory.
"Duck plug" limits the mag to hold only 2 rounds, + one in the chamber for a total of 3 rounds.
Waterfowl reg limit of 3 rounds.

With a mag extension you can add up to 10 total depending on barrel length.
A two round extension works with an 18-1/2" barrel, bringing the total to 7 rounds.

Now if you are one that likes to hear the sound of the "pump jack" prior to engaging, all the above number are reduced by one round.

I have an old black powder shotgun in 12 ga. Now I've held off trespassers with this shotgun loaded birdshot while hunting a few times and though this particular weapon isn't a defense weapon of sorts, I always felt at ease with this type of shot. I certainly would dread being on the receiving end of any 12 ga loaded with whatever shot possible...rocksalt included.

FYI;
http://shop.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=377126

Used something similar to that in Sierra Leone on patrols...devastating round.

Thought of them when I saw your screen name BuckBall.

LOL That is where I got my nickname from. I was point man when I had the chance, thus always carried a shotgun when I could and loaded up with buck and ball...hence my nickname came to be The British military was a bit more flexible when it came to shotgun ammunition than the Americans who only could carry buckshot. Have no idea if the Americans can choose their rounds yet.

While the sound of a pump being chambered is unique, reasonable home defense would be to have one up the spout ready to go LONG b/4 U need it. Even if you are storing it MT, it should be locked & loaded b/4 you need it.

Dad carried a Browing auto-5. With the bolt locked back, pushing a round into the mag caused the bolt to shove it home w/ a sound as menacing as a pump 'cept it was ready to go immediately. And it could deliver all 5 as fast as you could pull the trigger...no wasted motion working the slide...

I still prefer my 38. all lead wad cutters = no mercy. If you need to use the gun you don't need ANY compassion...

Check out the 'shooters forum' sponsored by Beartooth Bullets. There is a guy from Fla. on there [James Gates] who markets 'buck 'N ball' as well as a 'Tri-ball' shotshell rounds. Has some interesting reports on there.

I load #1 Buck in the magazine of my Benelli M1S90 and Hornady TAP in my shell holder. My longest shot in my house is a little over 35’ so I use something that will be effective at the greatest distance in which I may have to take a shot. My chosen gun/load will keep all of its pellets on a silhouette target out to 21 meters reliably. The following provides some good information

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

Here’s a decent article on shotgun wound ballistics from the Western Journal of Medicine of special note is page 155 which deals with mortality rates based on distance:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pag...geindex=3#page

In two tactical shotgun classes I've taken, the birdshot question arose and was not recommended. This is due to the lack of penetration. The FBI penetration tests call for 12” with handgun ammo, this takes into account outer clothing and shots at “bad angles’ IE through limbs etc. The reason for the desired 12" is because the only reliable way to stop a human attacker instantly is by hitting 3 locations, brain, brain-stem, or central nervous system above the waist. Anything else and they can still pull a trigger until they bleed out. #1 buck has 16 .30" pellets that will make 12 inches of penetration.

Everybody worries about over-penetration of his or her weapon, but the potential is for two (or more) people with guns. I know the fields of fire within my house, IE whose bedroom is where, the other guy doesn’t care. I want to use the best tool to neutralize a threat as quickly as possible.

There's no free lunch here, anything that will reliably stop an attacker is going to penetrate.

Chuck

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Might does not make right, but it sure makes what is.

Some place a while back I remember the argument of the 71/2-8 as not good thru any amount of clothing--jackets etc.
My thought is a winter time "problem" when bad guy has winter clothing on.........

Comments...........

I've heard the same thing.

But, there is also all sorts of "soft" and "hard" cover in the average house.

Sometimes the ability to shoot through cover can be a "good thing".

Chuck

__________________
Might does not make right, but it sure makes what is.

44 mag here. Leave the shot guns in the rack as if someone is in your house you might be in close quarters with them. Sam

If you are in the house I don't care if you have double whatever or birdshot whatever you are going to kill what you point at. Unless you live in some kind of McMansion and the smallest room is 100 feet long. All firearms have a purpose and having the right firearm with the right bullet/shot and a profiency with that firearm is the most important thing next to the will to take a persons life.

God hope that none of us are ever in the position.

You are quite right. It only takes a air gun or BB gun to take a life if you are good enough. I always carry a 9mm with me and am fully capable of using it to defend myself. I have before so one more won't make any difference. Being able to and having the will to do it are two things. You need to make a decision when to use it and have the willpower to do it when you cross that line. Most gun battles are from less than 10 feet in any home. More times than not it will be 5 feet or less even in a large office building. I have been in the a gun battle that the mussel of the other party was past me and it only took a half a second to fire. It was his life or mine. The cop in the room with me saw the whole thing and didn't even have time to react to the problem. It took the police investigator about 3 minuets to decide it was a good shooting.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

Keep in mind the macho sound of a round moving into the chamber of a pump shotgun also alerts the enemy to your location and gives them ample time to fire the first round (you lose). All of my firearms are loaded and ready to go, safety on. No children in the house, wife knows how to load,fire,clear jams from all weapons .

The only problem I would have with shooting someone who broke into my house would be finding a place to aim at thats not covered by dog.

Not necessarily true, or at least according to one study about 80% false.

IAW the Western Journal of Medicine article on shotgun wound ballistics the following fatality rates apply for birdshot:

Type I Wound Greater than 7 yards (21 feet+) 0-5% Mortality Rate.

Type II Wound 3-7 Yards (9-21 feet) 5-10% Mortality Rate.

Type III Wound Contact-3 yards (0-9 feet) 15-20 % Mortality Rate.

Note, no types of shotgun wounds even approached a 50% fatality rate when using birdshot. 80-95% of shotgun fatalities (again bird shot) were Type III wounds and hemorrhaging (bleeding out) was the cause of death. The average time for death was 2.3 hours.

Keep in mind, this was written back in 1978, so with some improvements in trauma care the mortality rates have probably decreased some.

Chuck

__________________
Might does not make right, but it sure makes what is.

Did they use low brass or high brass? Did it even take onto accidental shooting or only self defense? Most studies are made with an agenda. Who did the study and what was their agenda.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

The study, which I posted on the first page was done by medical trauma surgeons. I guess they don't care about accident VS SD because they're dealing with the actual effects. One of the Dr's was at one time a researcher for the Navy and studied wound ballistics.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pag...geindex=4#page

I guess their "agenda" would be they were studying how to treat shotgun wounds effectively. Again, SD VS accident, the "why" doesn't really matter at this point.

Page 152 states: Unlike pistol and rifle cartridges the “magnum" shotgun shell does not necessarily produce higher velocities…….........therefor very little is actually gained in missile velocity or energy at various ranges by using magnum shells.

So yes, they did look at high brass VS low brass.

The big take aways are the relative low percentage of fatalities when people are shot with birdshot. Which runs a little counter to:

There's really about 5 or 6 relevant pages, why not take a few minutes and read it?

Or if you don't agree, you can always do some research to support a differing opinion.

Chuck

__________________
Might does not make right, but it sure makes what is.