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  #21  
Old 03/22/09, 09:30 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tennessee
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Cfab if you can get shocked like that yuall got different lectric in the nauth than we got . Neutral from transformer to panel to ground rod then bond screw to case of panel So that white wire should get you anyway you go
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  #22  
Old 03/22/09, 09:37 PM
deaconjim's Avatar
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Grounds are your friend. I would at least install a ground rod and run a new wire from the recept.
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  #23  
Old 03/22/09, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim View Post
Cfab if you can get shocked like that yuall got different lectric in the nauth than we got . Neutral from transformer to panel to ground rod then bond screw to case of panel So that white wire should get you anyway you go
True and so is mine, which is the way it should be as the neutral will have to get to Ground so the electricity can get back to the source where it came from where ever that maybe~! To The power plant etc. That is why the better the ground the better it is on everything. You can think of electricty completeting a graet Big Circle. From the Power Plant to your home and then back to the power plant via the ground.
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Last edited by arabian knight; 03/22/09 at 09:40 PM.
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  #24  
Old 03/23/09, 01:10 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim View Post
Easy way put a white wire from silver screw to the green screw black on gold screw . White and ground end at the same place anyway if it is a newer unit it wont pull much juice. Have had to do this for copy machines where it would cost a bundle to do otherwise . Where people really mess up is they got a 15 amp wire on a 30 amp breaker then their wire becomes their breaker . when going to someone's house take your own smoke detector
Not legal and not safe. Do not do this.

It 'works' unless you actually need the ground circut.....

Combining the neutral & ground wires more than only one time in the main breaker box sets up some really bad traps if any wires break - which is the point of the ground wire, and you defeat this point if you do as Sawmill says.

Bad advise. Real bad.


Don't think code allows one to run a seperate ground wire either, or connect to water pipe along the way, etc, tho I could be wrong on this.

Electricity needs 2 wires to work. A live feed (the hot wire) and a return path (the neutral wire). But if things go wrong, it is way safer for people to have a seperate totally dead wire - the ground wire. If you start swapping this dead wire with any of the others any old way you want, you create bad loops, and the possibility of all metal surfaces in your house to be lightly to strongly electrified.

The ground wire serves no purpose at all, _unless_ something goes wrong. So you'll never know you have it wired wrong until you really, really need it......

The ground wire is a safety feature. If you wire it up wrong as Sawmill says, then not only do you defeat the safty, but you may channel electricity from broken wires to any metal surface.

Don't do that.

So many get confused, because the neutral wire is sometimes called the ground, or negative, wire. But that isn't correct - it is the neutral wire. The ground wire is different.

So many get confused because they see the neutral & the ground wire bonded together inside the main breaker box - and assume they both go tot he same place, are tied together, and end up doing the same thing. That is wrong! It is like looking at your water supply, and saying since the water supply line is connected to both the cold water pipes and the hot water heater, all the water must be the same temperature. No, no. The ground wire is very different from the neutral wire, and needs to be isolated except at that one grounding spot in the main breaker box.

--->Paul
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  #25  
Old 03/23/09, 05:52 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mid-Michigan
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Neutral shouldn't be used for "grounding" because it's a current carrying conductor. Any voltage drop along the wire (there will be some) will be present in voltage at the case of the appliance if "grounded" as Sawmill Jim suggests. And in the case of a poor or broken connection on the neutral, full line voltage will be present on the case. It's a very bad idea to hook up something in this manner. If a separate ground wasn't necessary, don't you think they'd omit it and save 1/3 of the wire cost?
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  #26  
Old 03/23/09, 09:31 AM
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 115
I agree with getting a book. They are really easy to follow and yeah it can be a pain in the butt speaking that I had to replace one in my 1940's house and it wasn't much fun but it wasn't difficult either. We have plaster and that by far was our biggest issue. Now when I say I, I do mean I did it. So if I can, I know you can And yes for those who are thinking-sure hope she had someone review that. I did have an engineer review everything I did to make sure I didn't do anything stupid
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  #27  
Old 03/23/09, 01:07 PM
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Location: NW Pennsylvania
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I will be replacing the outlet with a GFCI. It's the best I can do right now, and safest. I'd love to have the entire place rewired for my mom, but that's just not possible right now.

I have a book, somewhere in storage, but haven't been able to locate it. I bought it over 6 years ago, but most of the info should be accurate.

Thank you everyone for the tips, advice and suggestions. I've learned a good bit about wiring. I know I have more to learn, but every bit helps.
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  #28  
Old 03/23/09, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrongwayrick View Post
In many cases the metalic box in the wall will be connected to ground and the outlet will pick up its ground through the screws that hold it in the box. The small plug in circuit testers will tell you if you have a ground or not.

IN an old house this is almost never the case.
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  #29  
Old 03/23/09, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plowjockey View Post
IMO, the new plug is no more unsafe than the old one.
VERY true.

Quote:
As another poster stated, it's not as safe as a the 3 wire line, but it is not inherently dangerous, either, IMO.
YES it is... An ungrounded device is a single failure away from killing someone.
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