LGD - Tie the dead chicken around her neck?

I have used the beat with the dead bird method, but I caught the dog in the act and the repremed was instant. I have never had the problem since even when introducing different kinds of "feathered friends" to the "family".

And Sometimes No.
I had an Uncle that tried it with a shepherd dog that started killing chickens.
So he tied a dead chicken on it's neck. That dog promptly went around the barn and ate the chicken.
A day or two later, Uncle caught that dog eating on another chicken it'd killed. So he scolded it severely and tied the chicken on it's neck again.
Same thing, that dog went around the barn, out of sight, (he thought), and ate the chicken.

So then, Uncle did a cruel thing. He went in the house and got the 16ga. loaded with # 8's. He blasted that dog with a load of #8's, from off aways, while it was still eating chicken. It did not kill the dog, but he sure went off yelping. He came back later in the day, dragging the remains of that chicken on his neck

You know, that shepherd never touched another chicken. He wouldn't go near them.
But....It's a sad, cruel story. And, it'd get you arrested today, if anyone knew.

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She probably understood that the tone of your voice and possibly your body language as you approached her meant that she was in trouble. You are lucky she came slinking toward you, she is a good dog to come when you call her name, even though she recognizes you are upset about something.

Unfortunately, she got an immediate consequence for coming when called. Not for killing the chicken.

Dogs have to be reprimanded *in the act*. The moment she started slinking toward you, she was engaged in an act different from killing/eating the chicken. In her mind, she was punished for coming when called.

I've never tried tying the chicken on their neck but it wont' hurt.
We've had good luck with shock collars.

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My father broke a dog once of killing chickens by putting him in a burlap bag with the chicken he'd killed and hung the bag from the clothesline for a day. The dog never bothered the chickens again. Needless to say, this was a small dog-- a daschund cross-- but still, it worked.

I've got two LGD dogs~ a 1 year old great pry and a 9 month old Anatolian. MY learning how to teach them seems to be a full time job! I tried the tying the dead chicken (it was actually a guinea) to the great pry~ and it seemed to work for a while. Or probably more like my obvious disapproval every time I set eyes on him with my dead guinea tied to his neck seemed to work. But then the younger Anatolian took to chasing chickens and I caught the great pyr having a great time chasing with her! I bought shock collars~ and those work..........WHEN I'm looking AND when I'm in RANGE (I can see the dog messing up from way further away than the collar will shock!) I was having fits trying to figure it out..............

And I think I STUMBLED on the answer. I had set up two 10X10 dog kennels so I could separate the dogs and feed them without the goats eating all their food. Every morning I put the dogs in the feeding stations~ let them eat.......then let them out and watched like a hawk while getting NOTHING else done for if the dogs were messing up. Same deal in the evening~ but when I let the dogs out after evening feeding the chickens are all in the barns/coops and only the goats are still out. Then I started getting lazy......not letting the dogs out of the feeding stations right after morning meal..........and I noticed. They sleep most of the day away anyway. Then at night the run all night with the goats and get plenty of play while guarding the goats and keeping predators from getting into the barns/coops. So~ I started leaving them IN the feeding stations most of the day and only taking them out for supervised interaction time with poultry while wearing the shock collars. This seems to be working~ neither dog has chased a chicken in a couple months now~ yesterday I noticed several young chicks pop through the fence into the Anatolians feed station and chow down on her breakfast. She just watched them with no reaction to the very fast moving chicks she used to be fascinated by. As the dogs get older (they are both still young) I'm hoping I'll be able to leave them unsupervised with the poultry. But even if I have to stick with the routine we have now~ the dogs are getting plenty of running time at night~ they are guarding the goats and the poultry at night~ their presence puts off day time predators even from their kennels~ and I don't have to feel bad about hating my dogs for killing my poultry!

So, this has obviously stirred up some difference of opinion. And some with fairly strong ones at that. Somehow I feel the need to pop back in and state that I'm not an idiot; that I actually have a very good grasp on behaviour modification and training.
A few of you were real good at telling me what I did totally wrong and how NOT to train a dog, but I saw few other suggestions of how to handle the situation from those same individuals.
Also, I need you to know that I don't expect her to act like a mature dog when she's only a puppy; I understand and expect that she's getting into mischief. My expectations for her aren't outrageous. I DO want to get ahold of this chicken/duck issue and nip it in the bud.
And... I am in full support of the shock collar and am trying to borrow one this week. I am fully aware that the dog can't see you when using it. (duhhhh. this is the stuff that insults me). We have the perfect house for it - a Lindal cedar home that is all windows looking straight out over the fields. I would be able to sit in the comfort of my own home and zap her as necessary.
An update: she is still wearing the chicken. It has been 24 hours now. And she hasn't managed to eat it yet.
And, finally, thanks to Rose and others who are not making me feel like a loser, but are actually sharing their own experience with this method.
jodi
p.s. admittedly, a bit PMS'y here....just a warning.

Cheryl, this is great. Thanks for the detailed response!

[QUOTE=westbrook;3689367]tying a chicken around a dogs neck is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of doing to get a dog to stop killing chickens!

where is the logic?

sure go ahead.. tie one on... you will feel really dumb when the dog lays down and dines! like a candy necklace for kids!

this is a livestock guardian dog!!!! not a herding dog (border collie, collie, rotty, german shepherd), it is not a reteriver, not a pointer, or a whole host of other high pray drive dogs.

LGD's are low pray drive!!! what are you doing letting you puppy run with livestock with out supervision? pen the dog in a run next to the livestock, pen the dog in the center of the paddock or put said pup with some aggressive livestock but plenty of room for her to get away.

you are asking a 6 month old puppy to behave line an adult.. like leaving an 8 year old child alone with a new born and expecting the child to know what to do in an emergency.

It takes awhile for a puppy to understand that they are to protect it not play with it!

your first dog/pup, you have to be the alpha dog. you need to stay on top of the pups behavior... expect to loose a few more before she figures out she is to protect it not eat it!

tying a dead anything around your dogs neck... don't, you are just asking the dog to kill again, after all it is a reward.. dinner on a string!
QUOTE]
yes

I just taught my dogs the meaning of "no". They're a blueheeler and a standard poodle. The poodle now guards the chickens, I can tell the heeler stills wants to chase(talk about a dog born to chase things...). I think it helps that the heeler can chase the poodle, and the poodle is happy about that.
ANyways, here's the proof of my "no"--here's a chicken stealing dog food from the heeler (who LOVES her food), nothing happened, I was just standing there in the house(didn't even tell her no, she knows) The heeler would think she died and gone to heaven if I ever tied a dead chicken around her neck, she sure loves a good stink!

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PS Cesar Milan had an episode about curing the chicken chasing/killing with a labrador. He didn't tie the dead chicken around the neck either.

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It worked for my FiLs german shepard (a farm dog), he left it there for 3 or 4 days.

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EXACTLY!

And by the way, my Daddy was NOT a stupid man.

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Where is the logic?

I guess part of the logic for me is that 98% of the people who have actually tried this (and correctly tied the chicken around the neck) swear that it works. The only ones saying that it won't work are those who have never tried it.
There's the logic right there. It's worth a shot.

a german shephard is NOT in the same class as Great Pyr.

A GSD is a herding dog, blind obedience. A GP is a Livestock Guardian Dog, they think and draw upon past life experiences before they act.

True story...

The County Sheriffs Department looked at using LGD's for police dogs because they are very smart.

They worked a dog with the GDS in training. Everything was going great until it was time to get the dogs to attack.

The handler sent a GSD out to attack the 'bad guy' (dressed up in protective gear). the GSD ran after the man and took him down.. the dog was so please with himself.. got the man and held in in place until the handler called him off.

the handler now sends the LGD out after the 'bad guy', the LGD starts the chase, barking and growling. The LGD does the usual charging and posturing. The 'bad guy' continues to run and the LGD now stops, growling and barking. When the 'bad guy' is out of site the dog turns around and comes back to the handler all proud of himself... as if to say 'see he's gone, I did a good job'

Needless to say, that was the end of the project.

GSD's have an extremely high pray drive. they are in the herding class. LGD's have a very low pray drive which what makes them work so well with livestock. they are in the working class.

this is about Livestock Guarding Dogs and while a dog is a dog to some extent.. a livestock guarding dog is to a german shepherd dog is like a german shepherd dog is to a Labrador... two different dogs, two different classes, two different jobs, two different motivations.

what works for other dogs doesn't necessarily work on a LGD.

LOL - love the story about the GP! I can totally see that.
I do appreciate what you're saying here about various breeds of dogs and their various motivations, Westbrook.
(I promise to be the first one to admit that it didn't work next week, if, in fact, it doesn't work.)

Better to use the electric chicken method. I tie the (dead) chicken to a piece of wire and suspend it on a flexible stick off of the hot fence line. Looks like a live chicken hopping around. Dog touches it. Learns not to touch chickens. Variations. Also see this post about training Killer Kita - she turned into one of our best ever LGDs:

http://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Asugarmtnfarm.com+killer+kita
Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org

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In order to know that it is the chicken tied around the neck that worked you will have to implement no other forms of training or discipline during this time. Simply chicken tied around neck, and no other correction at all. Good luck.

I met a woman at a farm conference who was talking about training her farm collie to rat. I guess the dog had seen rats in with the chickens and had just figured that they were funny looking chickens, and thus not to be messed with. So one day she finds a rat that one of the cats had killed, tied it to her belt with a 10' hunk of bailer twine, and sets off running across the yard screaming and hollering in "terror" that this rat is chasing her. She now has the best ratter in the county. But here we just figured out that the Pyr/BC pup is "herding" shoes, not chewing them.

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Well, so far, we've had no need for correction yesterday or today. She's been great. That's it!...the cure.....
She just needs a permanent chicken necklace. lol

Hey, if it works, I won't really care WHAT did it. If it doesn't work, we can blame it on the chicken, okay?

Just providing an update....
CC is still wearing her chicken necklace - she is on Day 5 now.
She has required no correction since the incident on Tuesday and, aside from chronic nighttime barking, she's been great!
In fact, she just came into one of the pens and there were 3 ducks in there. Normally, she would chase them. I saw her walk towards one as though thinking about it, and then she turned the other way and left the pen.
I'm remaining hopeful.

Worked very will for my mixed terrier.
I duck taped it on top his head.
He thanks chickens are invisible now.

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