Is the cat out of the bag?

You will be advising them all, around the comunal supper table. Multi generational housholds will become the norm, again!

__________________
Some folks are well off. I'm just a little off.

I never understood how people looked at real estate as an investment without factoring in taxes. If your land increases in value by $1,000/yr and your taxes are $1001/year, what exactly have you gained? Even if the taxes were $1000/yr, you would still be losing VALUE because of inflation.

The trick with real estate is to go into an area with low taxes on the land, but lots of development, and then sell to the inflated market. There are still fields around Miami that have one or two cows on them so that the agricultural exemption can be taken. Right next to the cows are new condos and developments.

"You will be advising them all, around the comunal supper table. Multi generational housholds will become the norm, again."

Oh no, not again! I haven't gotten rid of their dog yet! And there's still one household full of furniture upstairs while one gets a Master's Degree in Hawaii.

.................The system has already shifted into Reverse , tax collectors are being peppered by homeowners when they mail out tax valuations showing , NO , decrease in assessed(fair market) value . Ultimately , if they don't recognize the obvious , class action lawsuits will be filed and the state legislatues will be forced too "Fix" the problem .
................Urban housing developments will probably lose a much greater degree of their retail value than small tracts of undeveloped land outside the purview of municipal taxing authorties .
................I think what is actually happening , is that the various government refinancing programs are actually paying "Down" the principal balance on the loans so that the decreased principal balance being refinanced
is affordable too the homeowner , much closer too the current fairmarket value and keeps the purchaser of the large groupings of mortgages from using their insurance policies where the value(s) have decreased . This is why AIG is still asking the FED for more cash because of their underwriting of large mortgage purchases . , fordy

If a person bought or buys land as an investment, to flip later on at a profit... well, this person is ripe for losing everything, unless they paid with cash... if they buy developed land, especially from a developer, they probably bought it at a premium price. These folks may find it takes years for the price to reach what they paid for it.

I buy land, as a place to park money. I daresay my land purchases outpace anyone's 401k, stock, bond, cd, or money market portfolios over the last 13 years.

Land is better than any 'paper' asset....... especially if you live on it, work on it, grow timber, crops, or livestock.

With the world coming to an end, I'm still trying to buy more...

I'm not worried about appreciation in values... although my land has appreciated 10x what I paid for it. I don't plan on selling. If I do, at some point in the future, I figure it'll bring more than if I had invested in GM! Oh, and most of the land has already repaid 70% of the original purchase price, thru tree thinnings. Guess you'd call them dividends.

__________________
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Must have been the show I watched. I can't remember if it was Chinese or Japanese people though. A company got a group of them to fly over here, and then they spent like 3 days going from house to house (McMansions - at least compared to my house). Of course, all these people are professionals and have the bucks to do it.

I think for the most part, people were looking at the homes as more for vacation homes rather than moving over here. Although one person did mention about bringing their children over and they could go to school here.

I don't know how you could ever stop them - they are coming over and buying something that is for sale. As long as they maintain it and pay taxes on it like everyone else, why shouldn't they be allowed to do it?

What's the difference of you going over to their country and buying a house? If you have the money, you can do it too!

__________________
Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania

"Everything happens for a reason."

it's inflation that makes it look like real estate only goes up (and that the stock market goes up in the long term.)

real estate tends to sell at a particular multiple of median income. if income is going up in a particular area/region, then housing prices will probably appreciate in that area, and quite possibly overshoot too.

someone did a very detailed study of real estate in amsterdam over a 300 year period, tracking the sale prices of specific properties, on one of the prestigious locations (location location location). In inflation adjusted terms, there was no appreciation over the 300 year period.

real estate in japan has been declining for the last 17 years. no, that's not a typo -- 17 years! and they're not making any more land there either.

for those that think for themselves, and are willing to research, there is plenty of info out there that indicates real estate doesn't only go up. but if you get your "analysis" from sound-bites on tv and real estate agents, then expect to be taken for a ride.

if peak oil is true (which i expect it is), then the whole livability of most of suburbia and exurbia is in doubt over the next couple decades, which will severely impact pricing for those "assets".

for farmland (priced based on what you can grow, not priced based on selling to a developer in the nearby city), i expect it will rise over the next decade or so, as I think we're in a commodity cycle that will probably last another decade overall.

but even if it's not an "Investment", there are things that give enough psychic satisfaction to make it worth owning, assuming you have the money and enough financial stability and savings to purchase it.

--sgl

During the 30s depression the value of the dollar just kept going up. We were on the gold standard, and our cash was supposed to be backed by gold owned by the government. Years later the gold rubbed holes in the politicians pockets, and they blew it. What stands behind todays dollar for collateral??? Nothing except the Govs hand in our pocket pulling out taxes. As long as the printing presses roll out billions in worthless cash the value of our dollar keeps droping. We are winding up with lots of cash that won't buy much because IT IS FASTLY BECOMING WORTHLESS>

Actually, we can't just take a wad of euros and buy property anywhere we want within the EU. Or at least we couldn't a few years ago. Not certain about other places. Nor can we just go many places in the world, read the classifieds & get a job. Our prospective employer would need to demonstrate to their Governments satisfaction why a foreigner was being hired to perform a job that could go to a national.

The true value of anything be it land or a house is what you are willing to sell it for and what somebody else is willing to pay. The prices are overinflated by the Realtors telling the seller what they can get for their property to get their business and speculators. This is the time for it all to be corrected and it will hurt but your property maybe isn't a worth as it was when you bought it. All of that will change once people start to work and have money to spend on land. I live in a retirement county(no jobs so only retired people can live here) and people have bought land to retire on but are beginning to sell it off to get out from having the payments on it. Therefore the price is way down but if they hole on to it it will increase when more people have enough to buy it.

__________________
God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

No, we have not started a new era. We're repeating an old one. As people age and die off, history is forgotten, and therefore repeated.

The only difference between this one and the former great depression is we're jumping the gun on government spending and going into it with a lot more national debt.

As for advising young people, I'd give them the same advice I've always given. Learn, think, plan.

WE are in our 3rd house in 30 years . We never bought a house to make money on it , We bought them for a place to live and raise a family . We made a 20 % down payment on the first 2 and financed on a 15 year note , Paid both off early and the house we have now is paid off , Why do we not think of our house as a place to live out of the rain and cold and not as a bank we own . As far as land goes we have 130 acres now and if anything else comes up for sale close to me I will buy it if the price is right . As Will Rogers said buy land boys they are not making anymore of it . Just my 2 cents worth ,

Just what exactly makes real estate worth money? The biggest factor is the money that can be made from it or near it. As salaries drop real estate will drop. As retirements disappear from the country so will increased land values. As taxes rise real estate will drop as an investment.

Ever notice all of these investment scams being referred to as Ponzi schemes? Isn't most all of this a Ponzi scheme of some sort?

__________________
"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

I've been reading about the "housing bubble" for several years, and it finally burst...maybe not for the reasons most predicted but it burst nontheless.

I think the secret to buying a house/homestead/farm/whatever is to make sure it is the place you want to live and provides you with the habitation you want at a price you can afford. If it meets those criteria, you will not care about market fluctuations so much, because you are in your home, not your investment.

In our current market, my small farm would probably bring half the price it would have two years ago (maybe less). That drop in price doesn't bother me in the least, because it is my home. It has the same utility and comfort and safety it always had (maybe more). My biggest concern/hope is that the county will lower my assessment and taxes!

__________________
"Luck is the residue of design" - Branch Rickey

It is only a Ponzi scheme if you intend to sell at a profit.

My MIL lived for 20 years in a paid-for home, and it meant that her $1200 a month income went a LOT further.

I believe it was back in the 80's that the Japanese, rich with cash from their own economic expansion, began buying up all kinds of commercial property in the US. We were in an economic recession (like today) and glady sold off some of our jewels. Then, in the early 90's, their economy went south and many of those properties were sold back to us at their loss.

Remember, just like us, they never truly "own" the land. They only "rent" it from the US. The tax man cometh for all.

Good luck with that. You can amend the tax returns if you want, but the government is not going to go back and hand you your money. Three years back you might get it, but not that far back.

Jennifer

__________________
-Northern NYS

Many economists state that your home was never meant to be an investment. People in the last few years forgot that. They bought homes they couldn't afford intending to keep it for a few years and sell, making a "fortune". What they forgot is, just like their home values increased, so did the price of that next home that they wanted. It was like a dog chasing its tail. When the value of their homes decreased (but the payments went up) they ended up owing more than it was worth and the house (of cards) came tumbling down. People nowdays don't want to start in a "starter" home, they want to have more than their parents do, even though they don't make the wage.

One of our friends makes about half what we do, but his house is much nicer. He gets a new car every two years. He can hardly make it because of payments, yet his philosophy about spending is "I ask myself one question: Do I deserve it?" Well, he never answers "no" to that question.

Rant over...

I was listening to NPR yesterday and they said Bernie actually paid corporate income taxes on the "profits" his company was supposedly making. So if the profits were phantom, the taxes should never have been paid. It was part of his way of hiding what he was doing from the government.

Three years is as far back as YOU can go. The IRS can go back as far as they like, especially if they think fraud was involved. That's what they are doing right now with Bernie-Baby.

True as this is Fraud not just a case of a person making a mistake and wanting to back and amend a return.
I hope they do find at least most of the monies, and also have the rest of the family as well behind bars in short order as he could not have done this all by himself.

__________________
Oh my, dishes yet to wash and dry

See My Pictures at
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0903/arabianknight/