Who here has gone through a bankruptcy?

I've been out of work from mid Sept. 08. If things don't improve, the unemployment will run out. What can a person do if there is no money to pay with?

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Keep your SP101 handy!

Apparently there is a serious lack of Reading Comprehension on HT!!

Go back and read my last sentence where I stated that Bankruptcy is a tool to use in case of a catastrophy i.e. Sickness extended unemployment etc.

The issue many have with Bankruptcy is that is has become a crutch and a "get out of jail" free card. Bankruptcy only works if you change your habits except in the cases of catastrophy.

Jim

...sorry, I must not have understood this:

Originally Posted by Gary in ohio:
Before you consider bankruptcy I would try talking to a debt consultant, usually free in many areas. Bankruptcy has lost its stigma as being bad but my opinion is it should be taken as a personal failure in ones life.


Hear Hear, Gary!!!!!!!!!

I hear far too many comments like "Oh well, just go bankrupt and start over". Who do these people think pay for these bankruptcies? HELLO it is you and me, the ones that pay our bills and stand by our debts! ...Lazy J.


...sorry my comprehension is so poor. I'll try to refine my Engrish and congrehension...

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Radically conservatively un-biased liberal.

http://whitepinesoapworks.com/

I talked to the bankruptcy lawyer this morning. The following applies to Florida only.
He would not take my case because my debts were too new, and a lot of them are medical bills. Also because I am not working, not "officially" trying to satisfy the debt, and am only in the beginning stages of filing for my disability due to my dying heart. I will almost certainly be dead before my disability filters thru the system. I also did not have the $2000 up front payment he requires.

Basically he told me the following about chapter 7:
1. I cannot keep my home because it is not really a home. It is a pickup camper (without the pickup) sitting on an otherwise vacant lot. Therefore it is unimproved property. Unimproved property will be sold to satisfy debt.
2. I can keep one vehicle with a value less than $1,000.
3. I can keep $1000 of personal belongings.
4. I cannot keep my computer, with which I am trying to run a home based E-Bay business to make ends meet, because the value is more than $1000. (And i wouldn't have a home to run it out of anyway)
5. I cannot keep any of the "inventory" that I am trying to sell on E-Bay if it goes over the $1000 personal property limit.
6. As for keeping any guns or fishing gear to try and live off the land, he basically just laughed at me. The courts don't agree with that kind of thinking.


alan

p.s. I edited this to remove a long comment to those of you who choose to be so arrogant and condescending as to look down on those of us who have "a personal failing in our lives". I had not planned on almost $100,000 in debt due to a massive heart attack just a few weeks after losing my medical coverage, and finding out that my Cobra insurance was basically worthless. This is the first time in my life my credit cards have not been PAID OFF each and every month. The first time since 1992 that I have owed money on anything other than a home. And the first time I have even considered anything like bankruptcy.

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Formerly Known As Galump!

Oh, Galump. (((HUGS)))

I'm so sorry.


Your computer, unless it's BRAND SPANKING NEW isn't worth $1k. Really.


Also, can you find someone to move your camper to somewhere else?


I'm so very very sorry. That sucks. You have my utmost sympathy...

Are there any freebie legal assistants around? I was told the $2k up-front thing by my divorce lawyer... My ex decided to stop paying child support back in September unexpectedly... And now the Child Support prosecutor folks say they won't help because he'll be 21 before they can get this filed - not before October and he'll be 21 in August. I'm appealing, but *shrug*

*sigh*

I'm so sorry... Your situation is so much more intense than mine.

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Radically conservatively un-biased liberal.

http://whitepinesoapworks.com/

People have many reasons for looking into bankruptcy. Everybody's situation is different.

I have no credit card debt whatsoever, because I don't use credit cards -- and not because I "can't handle" them, but because I believe in living within one's means. Like mushcreek, my business failed and I am trying to find a strategy to protect my home and future wages from the rapacious landlord of the business site.

I will definitely be mindful of keeping my checking acct in good standing, Oldcountryboy, thank you for that head's up.

THe only thing that means anything in bankruptcy is how good your lawyer is. Most don't take the time or really care to do a decent job.

While I do not want this to turn into a hot political debate, I am saddened that the majority of Americans are just a serious illness away from total financial ruin or bankruptcy, even when they have health insurance.

...yes, and FRIGHTENED, frankly...

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Radically conservatively un-biased liberal.

http://whitepinesoapworks.com/

I went through bankruptcy in 2004. I was in the Navy and my then wife used my deployments and my power of attorney as an opportunity to obtain several credit cards and max them out. A few of them I knew about, most of them I didn't. For two years after our divorce, I lived like a monk trying to pay everything off, but not only was I not able to do so, but the balances continued to increase due to fees and interest. It was a game designed for me to lose, and I still fill no guilt for quitting it. I didn't own a home, but was paying on a (used) car that I got to keep.

Immediately after the bankruptcy, I set about systematically improving my credit score. At two years out, I was able to buy a house with a conventional mortgage, and sold it. I bought a new car and made the payments, got a credit card and ran a small balance on it, but made payments every two weeks instead of once/month.

The end result is that I got a fresh start. Now that I control my finances, I live within my means, save, invest, and give to charity. I have no regrets at all.

http://bankruptcy-law.freeadvice.com...bankruptcy.htm

http://www.investorguide.com/igu-art...ent-types.html

Hope this helps and good luck.

You know best and remember that there but by the grace of God goes everyone....

Basically he told me the following about chapter 7:
1. I cannot keep my home because it is not really a home. It is a pickup camper (without the pickup) sitting on an otherwise vacant lot. Therefore it is unimproved property. Unimproved property will be sold to satisfy debt.
2. I can keep one vehicle with a value less than $1,000.
3. I can keep $1000 of personal belongings.
4. I cannot keep my computer, with which I am trying to run a home based E-Bay business to make ends meet, because the value is more than $1000. (And i wouldn't have a home to run it out of anyway)
5. I cannot keep any of the "inventory" that I am trying to sell on E-Bay if it goes over the $1000 personal property limit.
6. As for keeping any guns or fishing gear to try and live off the land, he basically just laughed at me. The courts don't agree with that kind of thinking.


Check closely and get good legal advice. In GA, the value is the value you would pay at a pawn shop or good will or what you could sell it at a yard sale for. It is not the retail value. Check FL law.

I filed for Chapter 7, kept my small SW trailer and the truck and all personal possessions (which ain't much). I do not consider it a personal failure as it is due to a work-related injury in which I got screwed by the company and still have received no worker's compensation payment in 2 years, and a permanent disability which the hospital received over $20,000 in insurance payments, but started garnishments on my $125 a week salary even though I was making $10 a month payments. They just can't be satisfied, I guess they wanted me to pay for all of those people that don't have any insurance. I don't consider it a failure at all, I consider it a reasonable thing to do since I was making an effort, and they refused to work with me. Those that judge others should be ashamed, because you do not know the circumstances of others. Hugs to those that are in the same prediciment as me. Blessings, firegirl

Personally I don't know anything about it except through other people who have filed bankrupsy. Most of them were deep in debt again before two years was up. One of them was a family member that we had helped several times. When I ask hoiw could they let it happen again,They actually said it was easier to get credit easier the second time than it was the first time. Go figure!!! They no longer get any help from us.

A little history on the underlying reason for this .. States are prohibited from passing any laws that impair the obligations of contracts. Bankruptcy and laws dealing with bankruptcy say in effect that you can liquidate and walk away from a contract by going through the bankruptcy procedure.

It is interesting that while states cannot impair the obligations of contracts that the federal government does not share the same restrictions.

Prior to the illusion that bankruptcies are permitted the mechanism to permit a debtor to continue to perform was called insolvency. In this status any valid contract was to remain in effect, the debtor was to relinquish all of his assets and was expected to perform until his contracts were extinguished in full by performance. An insolvent was merely given a "get out of jail free" card so that he could be afforded the opportunity to make good his contracts. Few people can perform adequately in jail.

Personally I favor Jubilee. Bankruptcy makes you irresponsible.

I have deleted several comments and believe I will instead interject one of my father's (dead 37 years now) favorite quips:

"It's difficult to remember your objective was to drain the swamp when you are up to your a** in alligators."




...for those of you who don't believe in bankruptcy and think those of us who were forced to do this are somehow less than deadbeats? The alligators evidently have left you alone or (for right NOW) they are just caimen or salamanders. I commend you for that. May they never grow into alligators. Bravo!

...and I will also acknowledge that some bankruptcy filers are misusing the help given.


I have not.

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Radically conservatively un-biased liberal.

http://whitepinesoapworks.com/

Thirty years ago a local farmer took bankruptcy. The feed dealer took an order to deliver a load of feed to keep his hogs fed just one day before the bankruptcy was applied. Needless to say the feed dealer received less than full payment on that load. He still mentions this occasionally as the farmer knew that he was going to become a bankrupt many days in advance of this; however, this was the chance the feed dealer took when he extended credit. This example is simply sour grapes on a deal gone bad.

A little research might reveal that the UCC permits you to place a restriction on any paper where your signature is required. The restriction should be placed before the signature is applied and should read "without prejudice". In addition you need to know what this clause actually means because you will be asked eventually and need to know what right you are attempting to protect. If it is not a contract no specific performance can be demanded. Learn what a contract consists of.

I don't intend any legal advice by the previous paragraph. Educational and entertainment purposes only.

In the court I attended this was not allowed - and has not been for quite some time now.

Several petitioners had to give back cars, motorcycles, etc.

The judge and trustee was not amused that these folks tried to defraud the creditors.

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Radically conservatively un-biased liberal.

http://whitepinesoapworks.com/

I know 9 years ago when I filed chapter 7 I lost nothing. Had 2 vehicles even. Not worth much but 2 never the less. I did not file on Sam's club, and the only thing they did was lower my credit limit by 3 hundred. and now I see it is back up where it was.
And the ONLY company that showed up for the "showing of the creditors" was Sears. I never entered them in the paper work either, just kept on paying. And Sears offered to take off 1K from the balance and make my payments like 5 bucks a month on a 300 balance, IF I Agreed~ heck YES I agreed. And that was that. Sears credit is now back up where it was also.
Best Buy tried to play hard ball. and wanted their balance paid within one year. I talked to my lawyer and said that would not happen and if I could not come to an agreement I would file on them also and they would get nothing.
I ended up paying like $150 cash, the value left on the computer, and that was that, and filed on the rest of the balance.
Now 9 years later my credit is good and I have ONE CC only and pay it off before months end, I never carry a balance. and the Interest rate is a nice one at 9% and it IS a National Known Card at that. So not bad after 9 years credit rating is over 700 now and in one more year the Chapter 7 goes off the credit report. So that is the only red flag that is on the reports now.
And this was mostly my fault too with charging WAY WAY over my head on multiple cards, and then even maxing them out.
And once you reach a certain point there is no recourse left other then Chapter 7, and my over time hours got cut off, so I was really in a pickle from being dumb.
I learned my lesson and will never be in that position again.

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Oh my, dishes yet to wash and dry

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Of course you cannot retroactively protest that no contract exists. If you are in the habit of leaving signatures unprotected you may be assured that by each signature you have engaged in a contract.

Generally a contract requires two parties. Yet in many cases you are the only one signing a document. There has been speculation that when you sign a document like this that you are doing so in the capacity of both the creditor and debtor. Yet when you are hauled into court the court only seems to recognize the debtor and forgets about you as the creditor.

The creditor portion comes about because your signature promising to pay actually creates the money that is used to fund whatever it is you are purchasing (car, home). This becomes an interesting concept because your signature now becomes the substance in exchange for the object of the contract.

If you approach a court as a debtor you have no way to win. Much better to come in identifying yourself as the creditor.

Again, for education and entertainment purposes only. Hopefully you are being entertained.

...I'm not really entertained, but your efforts are commendable.

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Radically conservatively un-biased liberal.

http://whitepinesoapworks.com/