Dust rules from EPA

Oh come on now Paul, when the govt decides to redistribute the land there should be plenty of folks lined up to tend the 1 acre plots in an organic and sustainable way. You'll be able to eat anything local that you want. It will be as the eco freaks want it. Nobody should go hungry we've been promised..............

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

Ah, rice stubble burning. You are in Northern Kalifornia.

Now I understand everything. You are gleeful at the export of Kalifornia Kulture to the rest of us. Eh, Komrade?

Only if the tillers & hoes they use are equiped with anti-dust water misters that use recycled green water tho.

Will be interesting what direction all the regulation goes.

--->Paul

Where are you taking about. The rice farmers around here are not that regulated. Of course you are talking about burning rice stubble. In our area it is not possible since the rice stubble is not dry and only smolders and not enough to get it to burn at all.We have to till it under before you can plaint a crop and that makes two to three pases to till it under.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

No I didnt. Thats YOUR problem. The EPA REGULATIONS, on the other hand, would apply EVERYWHERE. And WE dont need them.
If you want to push for regulations, keep it in YOUR state or county.

As to "providing an alternative" to the regulations, how about if I call YOU when I'm ready to plow or burn, and YOU can stay indoors. Then you wont have to worry where the dust or smoke goes.

Problem solved

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

yes, northern California. I stated as much quite a few times I'm glad you finally noticed.

Water, ground and surface, soil, and/or air being contaminated is not the sole venue of California. There are regulations in place all across this country that monitor pollutors and what they discharge. Agriculture does not, and should not, get a free pass no matter what you may think.

Gleefulness has nothing to do with it and I have no idea where you ever got that from and I doubt I'll waste any effort trying to figure it out!

see above. Imagine what a mess torching 400,000+ acres of rice straw pretty much at once in your area if it were possible.

yeah, I didn't expect you to make any effort to educate yourself on the situation. FYI: I am not pushing for any regulations only pointing out that when ag discharges, of any type, begin to reach levels that constitutes a health hazard then, yes, you do need them and more importantly 'we' need them.

I have said this years ago and to people I tallk with and that is the future of farming in this country and others, will be large corp/gov farms in select areas of the country, with 10 to 12 foot high razor fencing around them. When this will happen I don't know. It could be in next 3 years or it could take another 10, 15 but it will happen and the food for the masses will be grown, process, regulated and sold totally by international vertical Corp/Gov companies...

http://www.cfra.org/newsletter/2008/...gafarms-russia

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/bu...ss/31food.html

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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own... I am not a number. I am a free man."

What regulated pollutants, as defined by EPA, or even CARB, are being emitted from tilling soil?

Yes you are correct take California rules and press them on the rest of the country. That is the answer. All of us should learn to farm like they do in California. How many of the regulations are state and how many are Federal? You don't have any idea and don't care. What I am referring to is Federal regulations but you keep putting State regulations in your post. It is like talking to a fence post.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

I have no idea where you have gotten the idea the rice production has fallen in California over the last 20 years. It certainly is not true. From the early 1980's a little over 300,000 acres were in cultivation and today there are over 500,000 acres of rice in cultivation. Since 1991 when burning began to be phased out the land put into rice cultivation trended upwards every year.

This is not really anything new it is regulation on PM 10 discharges. Rice burning in California was only presented as an example of how ag discharges can be problematic.

If PM 10 regulations are exceeded that is one and the pesticides adsorbed to the soil particles would be another.



Oh come on now don't be silly I have not advocated taking California regulations and applying them to other locals. PM 10 regulatons are Federal in case you haven't checked lately and they have been federal for quite a few years.

PM 10 is less than 10 microns only.

Do any counties in the Sacramento Valley exceed the NAAQS for PM10?

Could you cite a study that shows pesticides in airborne soil particles as a known health hazard?

Yes Air quality is the one regulation that has been advanced to include all portions of the country. If there is a air quality issue what is being done? Nothing. All it does is to notify people that there is a issue and nothing else can be done. Site one instance that they have gotten a case filed and got something done when it is only one week or even a month long. How many farmers have been fined or taken to court to get a inunction against them? There are only a few area in the country that even have the machinery to detect pollutants and how many acres does it cover? I have a lot of smoke from burning timber land in my area but nothing has been don except to notify the county government that it is there.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

You're kidding, right? Don't you realize that the regulator zombies can think up any number of schemes to make life miserable for you. Do you know that Petro companies in Santa Barbara pay mega bucks for air monitoring equipment which is used to monitor their pollutants, by the County. Just image the Feds requiring air monitoring equipment on farms, to be paid for by farms, so that the Feds can monitor your CO2 levels, for example, ALA NAIS.

correct

yes

yes

Does a gardener tilling their garden help cause the problem?

If a farmer working up his field does, then so too would a gardener - would be a logical conclusion?

So, if the farmer is regulated for this non-source pollution, then so too should the gardener.

Size should not be an issue, if your concern is about the _pollution_ itself.

Rules are rules and should apply to all who pollute.

Now, do you like to eat?

How do we balance food production, food costs, and non-point pollution issues?

Of late the EPA types are just dumping new mandates on people. Period. Here you go.

I think this will have very negative effects on food costs, availability, and ecconomics.

Are these not any issue or concern at all for you?

Do you not care at all about people able to have a garden?

These are real issues too.

Where I live, dust is a natural thing that happens. It is not a source-point such as a power plant, or oil refinery, etc. It is the natural dirt that is in our world, stired around by natural wind.

I am befuddled on how such multiple sources of dust can be controlled to your satisfaction, yet still produce food at an ecconomic level that people can afford.

Dust has been around for millenia, it comes from 'all over'. It just is. I don't understand trying to control that when it comes from non-point sources.

They talk about taxing cow gas, taxing or eliminating working the soil, taxing cars driving on gravel roads, and on and on.

How will this affect rural folks, and homesteaders, and unless your food magically appears in the grocery shelves, even affect city folk like you?

I see some serious problems here.

It seems you don't?

--->Paul

AlGore's book explains it all.

We all live in monumental sky scrapers and work on the bottom floors.

Hydroponic farming.

The Hive.

Freedom need not apply.

no, a gardener tilling his garden with his rototiller does not cause the dust, if any, that the heavy equipment does.

therefore, not a logical conclusion

size is an issue, laying bare hundreds of thousands of acres does not compare to someone working up some raised beds. The raised beds also do not have the fetch that broad, barren, landscapes do to facilitate soil removal.

are you saying it is impossible to reduce non-point sources of pollution and that we shouldn't even bother trying? In the last few years (actually quite a few) there has been a move to not only define collective sources of non-point source pollution but have taken steps to reduce said discharges, molinate use and discharge and drinking water quality in the city of Sacramento.


I heard the same complaints and speculation when rice srtaw burning was phased out. the result was more acreage under cultivation than ever before.

appeals to emotion are not a valid argument and in this case a non sequitur.

dust is a natural thing but can, and is, accentuated by unnatural activities such as making the landscape barren of vegetative growth. That is what happens when you open the ground up to farm. In essence it is a mand-made problem and what is being considered is reduction of PM10 pollution by limiting access to fields when it is not a good idea to work the ground.

People appeared to be befuddled with the rice straw issue as well but it has worked out very well for both the farmer and their fellow citizens. It may appear formidable to you but it is not an impossible task to modify farm practices to mitigate any number of problems. History has taught us that this is true.


first off I am not a 'city folk' and own my own homestead where I raise nearly all of our food so let's put that nonstarter to rest.

Every time sebastes post it seems like talking to the EPA. they have their rules and to heck with the rest of you. Does sebastes work for the EPA? If not then he is on their side every time. I am through here so post anything you like about me.

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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.

Look, if you are not working or living in an area that has no PM10 air quality problems then there is nothing to enforce and nothing to worry about. However, if you do then you may be required to modify your practices. There are maps available that outline the problem areas take a look and see if you are in one of them. If your not stop the worrying!

sebastes,
You have a one track mind. THERE YOU GO AGAIN!!! Says sebastes, "Are you denying that the burning of 400,000+ acres of rice stubble 30-60 miles upwind of a major city will have an impact on air quality?"

Poor, poor sebastes. He is deluged with air pollution and can't find a way out. Your arguments are so preposterous that they don't merit comment.

Be aware folks, the regulator zombies are coming out of the woodwork. Excess is what we should expect. IMO, let AG land be AG land, as it stands. What the regulator zombies want is to create urban type atmosphere in the AG zoned areas, so that population density can be increased. This is what is happening in California, and will follow suit in many areas of the U.S., UNLESS YOU OPPOSE THIS POLITICALLY. VOTE FOR THE GOOD GUYS, PEOPLE!!!

BTW, you know where this is headed next, right? They will want to stop you from burning in your wood stoves. AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT. INDIFFERENCE BY THE ELECTORATE ALLOWS POLITICIANS TO RUN AMOK.