"Wagonteamster" in terrible accident -

Very, very sad.

A horse drawn vehicle traveling in a lane of a US highway is not something you would expect to encounter I don't care what you're driving. Sad to say there are few roads that you can travel safely in anything besides a motor vehicle. That road most likely has a speed limit of 55-70mph as it is a 4 lane US highway and it most likely has speed and vehicle restrictions as it has no paved shoulder or room for a slow moving vehicle to travel safely. I wonder if someone could find the MS restrictions and speed limits on that hwy. I think I would have put a little more into pre tripping a safer route.
I did find an article relating that the driver of the truck was OK after jacknifing and going off of the road.

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Such a tragedy-prayers for him & surviving animals.

Patty

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Sir, I believe that is the point... driving wagons on pavement is not a wise thing to do. He could, if he wanted, do it the old fashioned way... go cross country, crossing the creeks, rivers, valleys, and mountains... ooops, there are fences, so that's not going to work. A person Could Do It... but it'd be awful hard work... a lot easier to get out on the developed highways and take your chances.

It's simply not a good idea to go in a slow moving vehicle, that's incapable of rapid evasive maneuvers, on the highways shared by large cumbersome, slow to stop trucks. I've driven just about every kind of rig there is, on interstates, one lane, and where there are no roads. I finally got out of it because I knew I was going to have to run over someone eventually... after jackknifing my rig several times, I left. And, I was driving a safe speed... the idjits would pull out in front of me (going 55 or less) and wait till I was less than 50 yds away... and my rig took 100 yds.

I feel sorry for the fella, but times change, and horse and buggies work only in certain well defined (Amish?) areas of the country. Eventually we might get back to H&B, but till then, it's dangerous.

I'm not judging the individual, I'm judging the activity. I think Lee the Horselogger has been extremely lucky, travelling through the populous Eastern US without troubles...

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I do not know the conditions and will not lay blame. I ask all of you that have not drove an 18 wheeler to do the same.

greg

There is a nice article in February's issue of American Small Farm about Bob Skelding.

Talk about a clueless comment! I travel a section of highway in north central PA. that is in Amish country. The speed limit is 55 and it is a curvy, hilly road. The Amish think nothing of heading out on a rainy moonless night, when it's too dark to see much of anything. They travel half on the shoulder, half on the travel lane, in a black buggy with lights that are nearly worthless. Now, following your confused logic, the traveling public should be moving at 10MPH, because somebody isn't smart enough to stay off the road in a black horse driven vehicle, in incredibly dangerous conditions. Consequently, every year or two, the news reports a buggy, blown to bits when run over by a truck, and several dead family members. Sad for all involved, but hardly unanticipated, or statistically unusual. I'm sorry that this incident happened. I use the word incident, because it was not an accident. In my area, if you ride a motorcycle every day, on back roads, at sunset, eventually you are going to hit a deer. That's called engaging in a dangerous activity, repeatedly, until statistics catch up with you. The same goes for piloting a small plane in less than optimal conditions, or other risky activity. The public expects that a road, designed for high speed travel, can be used for it's intended purpose. They don't anticipate finding a horse drawn RV at the top of the next rise. Do something dumb enough, long enough, and you get your ticket punched. Sounds cold, but reality is what it is.

One of the posters on the linked site, Bob, called 911 telling them this guy was travelling on a speed controlled (minimum speed) highway, and they blew him off... maybe if the Law had responded and ticketed him for being where he wasn't supposed to be, his horses would still be alive. It's a shame it took a tragedy for him to show him how dangerous this activity was.

A friend got into 'mules' about five years ago, and picked up a matched team, with wagon and all the accoutrements, for $500... He hooks his animals up and routinely runs up and down Hwy. 59... he does stay on the shoulder when traffic is present. He's a truck driver, and knows what 80k pounds of steel will do to flesh... (the wagon is small, just like the old fashioned ones)

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Hardly a clueless coment Like a few others on here ive drivena few miles in big rigs myself.
But I was taught to drive within my safe preformance limits. If you think that at any moment a baby could have excaped its parents attention and crawled out on the road or a clue less kid might be playing super hero in the middle of the road with his nija suit on and drive according ly you will be a lot safer.
As a practical matter a large boulder or piece of machinery could appear in the road at any time or a crater where the road washed away. Drive ready for that and you will stay alive.I just dont have the luck to drive any other way.

Isnt it just logical that "when it's too dark to see much of anything. " "the traveling public should be moving at 10MPH, " or less?

"The public expects that a road, designed for high speed travel, can be used for it's intended purpose." and a horse and wagon wouldnt be a problem on a road like that . THE PROBLEM is most of the roads you are talking about WERE CREATED for a HORSE and WAGON and are being used by a unthinking high speed public.

there is a very definite learning curve......I choose not to comment upon Bobs trip because he had to figure things out....yes I have been lucky....I created my luck by putting up a 4x8 sheet of plywood and posting my itinerary...this is called the --- board...as in --- is thatthing going down the highway...second of all,my wagon has flags on it to mark me and catch peoples eye by the erratic movement....3..I use strobe lights....4 I try not to move on roads that have heavy rushhour traffic during rushhour....excuse me....I am truly sorry that bob was hit....next time I hope his luck is better

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leehorselogger.com

Yeah, fences and snobby property owners that would make him ride five miles to otherwise cross a 50ft patch of "no tresspassing" land.

It was not a smart thing to do on his part, and he paid the price. It's that simple.

I ride a bicycle, and I KNOW how dangerous slow traffic is on a highway. I've only rode on a two lane higway once, NO SHOULDERS, and about got hit.

I will never do that again, secondary roads is all I ride. It is a dangerous gamble to be a slow vehicle.

I think we should blame the law enforcement officer too. They were probably just eating doughnuts or having coffee at the 7-11. It would be a shame to blame a really nice guy for making a poor decision and have not only him but the truck driver and the first responders (including law enforcemnet)suffer the after effects of the incident.

I believe the gent, responding to the original article, called 911, and THEY blew him off. He did not say he called 911, and they tried to get a LE officer away from a doughnut shop, but couldn't. 911 thought it was a joke.

Really nice people make mistakes all the time. I don't think anyone is responsible, except the person doing the deed. I wouldn't think any better or worse of the act of pulling a huge unmaneueverable rv, with draft horses..... regardless of whether the person was a really nice person, or satan himself.

As much as I might want to, I'm not allowed to drive my tractor on metropolitan interstate highways. If I chose to, no one would be at fault but me. I choose not to, because I think it'd be insane. I couldn't live with the thought of my actions putting others lives at risk.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Pinning blame is a difficult task. That's why they have courts and judges.

Who's to blame on this:
Two ladies, in their 70s, traveling south on I-75, in southern Ohio. The speed limit is posted at 70mph and there are three lanes. Their mini-van is traveling at 70 mph on the dot and they are traveling in the middle lane, assuming slower traffic would be on the right and speeders on the left.

An empty, flat bed semi approaches them, whips over to the right lane passing them, then switches to the center lane as the last set of tires on the trailer spins black circles down the side of the mini-van.

The trucker never stopped, so the courts didn't get a chance to point blame. To many, the trucker was careless and caused the accident. But the ladies played a part in this too.

While the posted speed limit is 70, traffic runs closer to 80mph. Therefore, anyone creeping along at 70, needs to be in the far right lane with the rest of the slower traffic. In many places, semis aren't allowed over in the far left lane (third). If the trucker came upon this van, he either had faster traffic to his left or couldn't use that lane. His only choice was to change lanes, into the slow lane. Overtaking traffic from the right lane is often dangerous. Once committed to overtaking in the slow lane, the trucker would need to watch out for slower traffic in that lane and needs to get out of that slow lane as quickly as is safe to do so. If he approached slower traffic while in that right lane, he'd need to brake and pull in behind that mini-van or speed up to get past the mini-van. I'm guessing he had micro-seconds to decide and thought he was past the mini-van when his trailer tire spun down the side of that mini-van.

My mother was the passenger in that mini-van. After hearing her story, I cautioned her about being in the center lane and traveling well below the speed of the normal flow of traffic. Was the trucker at fault? Probably. Could the ladies done something to prevent this sort of thing from happening? Quite likely.

We are left with a lot of assumptions. Does this road allow slow moving vehicles? Did Bob have an orange reflective slow moving vehicle triangle clearly posted on the back of his contraption?

Anyone have an update on Bob and the horses?