Is the economy screwed?

Not really.... I am just not very tolerant of ignorance and people who spread it around. I am man enough to admit when I occasionally post in haste and get something wrong....Unlike others who are wrong most of the time and are too arrogant to listen or hear another point of view.

Earlier in this thread you said that the economy will not impact you and does not impact that area....and then in another thread you post that you haven't logged much in a year and a half because of log prices which are related to the building slowdown. (economy) Then I find a neat little video interview with you about NAIS where you say you only have been a farmer since the late 90s and that a good part of your income comes from logging your land.....So yup....I don't know what I am talking about when I say you will be impacted by the economy..... seems you already have.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...43385122943567

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Justice is the insurance which we have on our lives and property. Obedience is the premium which we pay for it.

What are you arguing about?

We make it home fairly often. Maybe I will stop by for a visit...thanks for the invite.

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Justice is the insurance which we have on our lives and property. Obedience is the premium which we pay for it.

if you listen carefully to highlands and other's post on this thread you hear about returning to core values or sanity.... they long for the new middle class to revert to a pre industrial america


In late 1993 a move was made within the Clinton administration to spend his 8years putting renters in homes of their own.... With retirement of gen X's in peril, building wealth within personal real estate seemed like and I believe still a good idea.... banks where forced to make a percentage of their loans to new style buyers.... fred and fannie where ramp up to be supersized companies, home ownership grew, constrution grew, development grew and yes things where flying high....


this recession is part of an ugly adjustment, ugly mistakes and yes some greed and stupidity.....


The problem: These new home owners were tempted and yes preyed upon by 2ndary lenders who attacked the equity in these new homes.... never before have 120% been available, much less common, by spending the equity earned every few years.... a large percentage of these new owners were just renting under a 30 year contract.... the equity in their homes would have softened the down times, the payments would have been lower and more managable....

I do not support many DEM party ideas, but this idea was heart felt, the move was honorable, the results have not been as good as we would have hoped, but we adjust, learn, and retry....

many on here want the new middle class to slide back into the 30's poverty, gorwing a garden for necessity and not to just relax...

and if this down turn is not hurting you, great.... it may because you are not in the middle class to feel it....

everyday a couple gets married, others will have children, we are growing as a nation, these growing pains are real and unfortunate....but we still need lending and money to be flowing for these new home buyers

the solution is to have plumbers fitting pipe, concrete men finishing slabs, and real esate agents selling homes, not handling forclosure paperwork on the same homes they sold to people 3 years ago.

These men / women planting a garden might do there ulcers some good.... and maybe they should that....

but asking the middle class to revert back to pre-industrial america is about the dumbest thing i have ever heard.

Good observations Redhog. I've been trying to put those thoughts into words for awhile. Redhog, Jersy Red or Duroc?

Red hog:

You have some good points, but you are placing the blame on only one thing and it is a much broader picture than that....so broad infact that even the professionals cannot put their finger on the cause of this mess.

The law you are refering to about a percentage of mortgage money going to low income/first time home buyers is actaully the community reinvestment act and it was passed in 1977. Blaming this whole downturn on a 33 year old act is obserd. G.H.W. Bush did sign an amendment to this act in 1992. This was the federal housing enterprise and security safety act and it put HUD as the government body overseeing frannie and freddie. And he also signed the Housing and community development act which allowed hud to set lending standards for low income so that the quotas for the 1977 bill were being met.

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Justice is the insurance which we have on our lives and property. Obedience is the premium which we pay for it.

I don't think there is any one area of the economy responsible for our current state. Forgive the way overused analogy, but we're facing the perfect storm of inter-related problems all of which have been builidng for a long time. We're no longer a nation of savers (well, at least until this past weekend when I started reading news articles about how people are now saving which will not help stimulate the economy...). Our entire nation (populace and government) seemed unable to rid ourselves of excessive debt. We have gone from an agrarian-based society and economy to one wherein corporate monoculture is routinely practiced and most people (certainly not those on this site) know where their foods comes from, much less have the capability to even grow a salad. We have a financial system that allows for speculators to make bet on top of bet on top of bet (derivates). We continue to have a government populated with "elected officials" that cater to big business and special interests (I just can't stop thinking that Rodger Daltry of "The Who" said it best, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss") - regardless of party - there's plenty of blame to go around here. We, as a nation, refuse to recognize that our entire economy (really, the entire world economy) is built on the cornerstone of cheap oil - this might genuinely be coming to an end. I think we could handle a couple of these issues by themselves, but all together? It will certainly be interesting to see what happens!

I agree, I am just limiting my comments to the posts above my response... the country vs. city debate.....had become almost a proud of poverty rant and laughing at those hurting....

The problems are complex, and so are the solutions.......

my point is a container plant garden on every ledge is not going to fix the economy.

I often wonder what the world would look like when all the survivalist/homesteading types had to pull together after their dream of complete government/economy melt down came true? The way we act online I think if we all got together to get something done it would look like a lot of chiefs and no indians.. I am saying "we" collectively of course as I am not a homesteader or survivalist. As mentioned above; I live in the city so I must be one of those patio container plant guys

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Justice is the insurance which we have on our lives and property. Obedience is the premium which we pay for it.

I have been looking for a good example as to why I discredit wikipedia as a credible source so I could answer this question. Well the reason is that anybody can write anyting they want on wikipedia about whatever they want...including themselves. This example is as good as any.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Mountain_Farm

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Justice is the insurance which we have on our lives and property. Obedience is the premium which we pay for it.

Ouch, that's going to leave a mark!!!!!!!!!!

Talking to some local friends about the problems in rural areas for the economic slowdown since we're in a rural area. The farms of yesterday are gone from this area. Gone with the local self sufficient farms are also the local stores. If it weren't for pretty long distance travel there are a lot of basics you can't even buy in some whole counties around here. The next county from me doesn't have a store that sells clothes or any fabrics. Most have little beyond a Dollar General and a larger town might have a Wal-Mart, the God of rural living in most areas.

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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

Beeman:
That is a really good point and something I had not even considered. We always had to drive 30 miles to shop growing up....when wal-mart landed in the late 90s across the river in tax free NH everybody started going there which increased the commute to 60 miles. The local clothing store (huberts)closed. It was a mom and pop type place but filled almost every store front down railroad street in St Johnsbury. The two big department stores also closed...Ames and Riches. Littleton NH became the shopping center of the NEK and if people in Northern Vermont could not get there for there needs they would have to go without or hope they could mail order stuff in.

Rural is growing in area in this country.

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Justice is the insurance which we have on our lives and property. Obedience is the premium which we pay for it.

More discussion among friends. There are whole counties where you can't buy a gun, just a simple tool like a 22 rifle or simple shotgun. Gas is another problem in rural areas, the small country stores took out the pumps years back as everyone drove past on their way to town to work. Now in some places it's 30mi. or more to a gas station. Basic foods are a problem too, sure there are some convenience type stores and even a grocery store but most don't carry many basics like sugar or flour. Few carry any meat except frozen and very few with fruit or vegetables outside of a can. No supplier is willing to deliver to rural stores. In many cases the bread truck and even the soft drink truck won't deliver to them.

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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

Our township has one storefront, a gunsmith. He moved here 2 years ago. The town to our West has one mom/pop grocery, and that is it. [no gas]. The town to our North has nothing. The town to our East has nothing.

But we are close to a city [Bangor] 20 miles South, so it does not really hurt us.

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http://www.mofga.org/

http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmAp...2/Default.aspx

If you can call bangor a city... They have a giant Paul Bunyan and the Stephen King house...

Big box stores, shopping mall, car dealerships, international airport, cheap hospital and a huge high-tech teaching hospital.

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http://www.mofga.org/

http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmAp...2/Default.aspx

For those who think that this economic mess wasn't predicted, isn't understandable, and isn't intentional, read this allegorical article .

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...E44368FC119%7D

An excerpt:
Wall Street's new business model: Create a new U.S. government-owned "Bad Bank." Load it with trash: "toxic debt" and "lethal derivatives," relieving Wall Street's "failed banking system" of the consequences of its greedy behavior, a degree of "moral hazard" so massive that it is guaranteed to set up a riskier, bigger meltdown, Shiller's "third episode," triggering the "Great Depression 2" sometime after April 21, 2011.
--end of excerpt

He's correct. It sounds bad but when the individual is prepared then the individual prevails.

Many folks predicted the crash

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/a...EWS02/90205035

This is a rest area that is state of teh art that was built 5 years ago. All of the flushing toilets run into a hydroponics system and the water is then circulated back to the toilets. I don't remember how many millions it cost to build this rest stop, but they are closing it to save revinue.

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Justice is the insurance which we have on our lives and property. Obedience is the premium which we pay for it.