Should we get rid of Medicare?

**Cabin Fever** · #21 01/25/09, 09:16 AM

I believe that every new employee...at the time of their first job....be given the choice of having a certain % of their income put into Medicare or a Health Savings Account for after retirement(or disability).

**Terri** · #22 01/25/09, 09:17 AM

MIL takes in about $15,000 a year. She made it through the depression, nursed her veteran husband until he died, and worked her entire life at a paying job.

There is no WAY she could pay cash to see doctors! And, with insurance so high, she could not pay for that, either.

And, without her meds, she will die. Is THAT fair, either? That this good woman be denied her heart pills?

Ramblin Wreck · #23 01/25/09, 11:50 AM

Barring a program/option to otherwise save for healthcare (as mentioned above), why would/should people who has paid into the program want to drop Medicare. Note that some are not covered if they/their employer do/does not participate in Social Security, but I'm not sure how many fall into that category.

simplegirl · #24 01/25/09, 12:17 PM

Good grief. I don't even want to think about how much I have paid into Medicare over the years I have worked. If we didn't have it anymore, what would happen to what I paid? Zip, zilch, nada........ you're on your own Sister.. Very scary thought.

Win07_351 · #25 01/25/09, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplegirl

Good grief. I don't even want to think about how much I have paid into Medicare over the years I have worked. If we didn't have it anymore, what would happen to what I paid?

It would have been consumed by the generation who was receiving it (before they decided to cancel it).

Beeman · #26 01/25/09, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

I believe that every new employee...at the time of their first job....be given the choice of having a certain % of their income put into Medicare or a Health Savings Account for after retirement(or disability).

How much would that accumulate in a lifetime of working? Isn't Medicare tax 1.5% now?

ldc · #27 01/25/09, 02:39 PM

Yes, but Beeman, the employer pays the other 1.5%, so it adds up to a total of 3% of wages. ldc

7.62mmFMJ · #28 01/25/09, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplegirl

Good grief. I don't even want to think about how much I have paid into Medicare over the years I have worked. If we didn't have it anymore, what would happen to what I paid? Zip, zilch, nada........ you're on your own Sister.. Very scary thought.

It ain't there! The lockbox has a big, fat IOU from the Congress. What we pay right now is being used by current retirees. The program consumes more now than it takes in.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Managi.....-a0119743147

So we either bite the bullet now and fix it or we go into debt to keep the PONZI scheme alive and give the bill to our children and grandchildren.

If I would have had that 2.9% that was taken from me I would have quite a nest egg.

For those of you that feel we need to "take care" of our seniors if we are to be a good society, look at where the government has taken us. Are you willing to pay 10% of your income to feel good?

How about we all take care of our own golden years. I know, cutting edge novelty.

ErinP · #29 01/25/09, 10:47 PM

Quote:

What we pay right now is being used by current retirees.

That's how it's been since the day it started. The same is true of Social Security. The "lock box" thing has never existed.

And, the same as it's always been, today's retirees are taking out far more than they ever chipped in.

beccachow · #30 01/25/09, 11:19 PM

I do not think MediCARE is the problem, it is mediCAID that is the problem. I am not talking about down and out of a job, honestly seeking employment medicaid, I am referring to the fourth and fifth generations living on medicaid and other government freebies. In my neck of the woods, they have retitled welfare benefits to "entitlements." WHAT?! Is ANYONE entitled to handout after handout without putting in an honest day's work in five generations?! And the people who suffer are our elderly, our handicapped, our veterans. And the current regime feels it's ok to make an 85 year old woman choose between paying her electric bill or getting medications she needs to survive? Give give give to people who are able bodied and let the older people fend for themselves. You know, the older people who worked for 40+ years until forced to retire?

I will never forget standing in line for a prescription behind this lady. She was dressed to the nines, fur coat to her ankles (real or fake am not sure, of course), getting ready to turn her script in. She pulls out a gold card and plops it on the counter. the pharmicist glances at it and hands it back to her. "Oh," the lady said, whipping out a Medicaid card, "wrong card." She put her American Express Gold Card back into her wallet. I have said so many times in so many other threads, our priorities are so skewed, and NO ONE SEEMS TO SEE THE BIG PICTURE!!!!!!! Medicare is in trouble because Medicaid takes all the monies to give to those "less fortunate," (again, I am not talking people who are legitimately on it) those able bodied people who are content to just let the government take care of their every whim, WITH, I might add, no deductibles, and like $1 copay on prescriptions. Meanwhile, our elderly and disabled have to PAY for insurance out of social security checks that are a pittance to start with, PLUS pay outrageous deductibles for hospital and doctor bills, THEN pay deductibles/ridiculous co-pays for the medications they need to survive. Hmmm, heat or doctor's visit...what a fair choice for a retired person to have to make.

If we can come up with zillions of dollars for people who have never been employed, why in the heck can we not take care of people who have rightfully been paying into their own retirements?!!!! I think a little re-evaluation of the distribution of government funding/health care needs to be done.

Tricky Grama · #31 01/27/09, 07:32 AM

Quote "Good grief. I don't even want to think about how much I have paid into Medicare over the years I have worked. If we didn't have it anymore, what would happen to what I paid? Zip, zilch, nada........ you're on your own Sister.. Very scary thought."

Quote "That's how it's been since the day it started. The same is true of Social Security. The "lock box" thing has never existed.
And, the same as it's always been, today's retirees are taking out far more than they ever chipped in."

2 different opinions...someone should 'do the math'.
If a worker pays an average of say...$3K/yr into SS & medicare for a working lifetime of 45 yrs, don't you think they'd have enuf paid in to cover med bills after age 65? Especially since you keep on paying $100/mo then even more for supplemental ins.

Patty__________________

ceresone · #32 01/27/09, 07:42 AM

I'm not exactly positive on this--but I think Social Security WAS set up as a "stand alone" and not part of the "borrowing, I.O.U" style of Govt. Then quite a few years back, (maybe late 50's?) the powers that be changed the laws, where they could use it when they wanted.

kjmatson · #33 01/27/09, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinner

What needs to be done away with is medical insurance in general. If there was no insurance to pay the huge claims, then you would see the cost of medical care drop like a rock.

Many of you are too young to remember when insurance was the exception, not the rule. Families paid the doctor when they went. Those were back in the days before the medical profession became a huge money making conglomerate.

The only reason medical costs are so high is because they know they can get away with charging outrageous amounts. Get rid of the insurance companies, and the medical prices will fall into line much the same as vet bills. Oh, I've noticed that vet offices are starting to ask if I have animal insurance. AFOAF works at a vets office and she says they charge 10 times more for the customers who have billable insurance.

Here's a good example of the price differences. I took a horse to the vet. She was suppose to be preg but wasn't. The vet did an ultrasound on her to see if there was a colt in there. He had the same machine that the hospitals use. Cost at hospital for human ultrasound is several hundred dollars. Cost at vet for horse ultrasound was $35. This was the exact same machine, costing the same to use. The only difference is it was for an animal instead of a human. I ask them why the cost difference and was simply told "because people will pay it for themselves, but they won't pay huge prices for animals." I guess that pretty well sums it up. The hospital costs aren't that much higher, but they know people will pay it.

Another example. I don't have medical insurance. When the doctor tells me I need a bunch of expensive tests and I tell them I don't have insurance, suddenly the tests needed are not so many. I go to the hospital to get the tests done and tell them I don't have insurance and ask how much and the price suddenly becomes more affordable.

They have a "insurance price" and a "personal pay price". They call it a "cash discount" or a "good patient discount" for paying cash. It's not some subsidized system where the gov picks up the tab, it's simply a honest charge instead of the inflated insurance price. I can often talk them down on the cost depending on what extra "services" are added. Some of the things I've had them remove from my bill are: hospital gowns (for a simple lab draw where I never used a gown?), being checked in (wrist band and all!) and assigned a room for a day when I only went to the lab for a blood draw and never entered the assigned room, and other extras that I don't need and don't want to pay for.

There are tons of things that are simply "money makers" instead of necessary services. Learn to avoid them and you can save a ton of medical costs. If people scrutinized bills going to the insurance companies like they do their personal accounts, then we might not have the high insurance costs we have today. I'm sure insurance companies are paying for tons of "extras" that were either not needed or not received.

Very very well stated!! Thanks Spinner.

kjmatson · #34 01/27/09, 08:01 AM

I don't know if Medicare / Medicaid are a real problem to us right now. I think the proposed possibility of 4 trillion dollar debt in bail outs and programs could have a far greater burden on everyone.

Jenn · #35 01/27/09, 08:10 AM

I'm with the folks who imply that we should take at least as good care of everyone who is ill as we do our seniors, and agree with beccachow maybe we should give as good as medicaid provides to our seniors and ill unable to afford their care.

LandRover · #36 01/27/09, 08:19 AM

Well I suppose if you wanted elderly people going bankrupt and dying early in large numbers you could scrap it - because that's the reality. I suppose it really depends if you care about your political ideology or your friends and family dieing before their time or suffering unnecessarily.

Beeman · #37 01/27/09, 09:07 AM

Everyone thinks they've paid a fortune into SS and Medicare. In reality the first years of most people's employment, especially if they're 50-70 now, they made very little and paid in very little. Also consider that many in that age bracket were spouses in single wage earner households. Also consider the fact that if you're able bodied you didn't need it but were covered for many of those years with a disability plan if something did occur, that plan also gave a death benefit with payments to survivors. Go price that at your local insurance agency.

Beeman · #38 01/27/09, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenn

Medicare is socialized medicine for those over 65- I think all of us qualify for it, right, just by passing 65? And yes some get it early because of disability covered by their payments, but aside from them: Medicare is an entitlement that only seniors receive although all workers pay for it and it pays out way more for (and is projected to cost) way more than it got from the current beneficiaries.

The VA system is actually socialized medicine with Dr.s as employees of the gov't. Medicare is the single payer system, a bit like Canada's system, which is where in this country the problem comes in. We don't seem to accept the fact we're all in this together and resent paying for others in our society. We also tend to be greedy and can justify fraud especially if we're taking from the gov't or insurance companies. With Medicare using private Dr.s and setting price limits the Dr.'s seem to feel the need to create ways to make more money for themselves, call it stealing and fraud they somehow justify it. Patients also have their ways of abusing the system, justified by the everyone's doing it or I paid a fortune for this, which of course leads to higher costs for all.