Anyone know what this old plow is??? (pics)

I see it has a crank on it, which is an Oliver way of doing things. But the rest of it, hitch anyhow, does not look like Oliver. Hitch is what made me say IHC the first time.

The ytmag.com folks will figure it out, & their classified section will probably get rid of it if you want.

--->Paul

Here in Michigan a plow like that advertized in a antique tractor magizine would start at about $100.00 a bottom after two bottoms.

Since this plow is in the north west I also would bet that an old crawler was the pull power since they like crawlers so much out there,

Al

__________________
Garden View Apiaries. Where the view is as sweet as the honey.
A member of SEMBA & MBA.

Yes, we are in the Willamette Valley. I have a picture somewhere of the root cellar my husband dug, you should see how much topsoil and clay there is!

My husband had an older farmer over today. He said it was an International plow (it had an old sticker you could barely make out) and said it was in great shape for being so old. He showed him how it worked with the crank and everything. I am going to assume the IHC you all were talking about meant International?

My place is on a hill. I can't believe anybody plowed this place with this thing!

Still haven't advertised it but I am glad to know more about it. Thanks again!

Yes, IHC is International, which built tractors under the Farmall, McCormick and International names. IHC stands for International Harvester Corporation.

I bet that plow, and the equipment used to pull it was the talk of the town when it was new.

A new crawler in those days could easily cost $10,000. I have seen early advertisements for crawlers that cost $19,000. Can you image having that kind of money in the teens or 20's?

Wow, I can't imagine that much money that would be in those days! I wonder if the farmers would have shared a crawler? I don't know who would own it but that seems like way too much money for one farmer. Stupid question but do all rural places have Granges like we do here? I suppose they could have done something as a unit.

Morningstar:

If you have the interest, there are some very neat books on antique tractors at nearly every library. Even if you don't have a passion for old farm stuff, these books can be fun to flip thru. Most are written as a chronology, starting with the early years through today.

One of the books at our library has a picture of two men on the platform of a crawler, with a 4 or 6 bottom plow behind them. I asked my wife if she wanted to see a picture of men that would have been millionaires by today's standards. That picture had been taken in the teens, on a farm out west. You have my interest up, so I'll have to check out that book again.

As a side note, things haven't changed much over the years. I remember the first time I ever saw a Stieger tractor in action. I was stunned and amazed by the size and power of that machine. It pulled a disc that was so large I couldn't believe my eyes. That tractor, too, was the talk of the town when it was new.

BTW, we don't have Granges here in Indiana. Are they a cooperative?

Interesting thread!!!!

Clove

Hi Clove,

I will definitely check out the library. I go on Monday and I'll see what they have. It sounds like a fun book to flip through, I do love farm books in general so I'm sure I'd love one on old tractors.

Around here we have Granges. Once upon a time when people couldn't go to town regularly they served as community centers. They hosted parties, easter egg hunts, and get togethers so rural families didn't go completely insane without other humans. Out here in Oregon the old homesteads were 160 acres, so next door neighbors were far apart. Now they still serve as community centers. Mine organizes yard sales (we have a 60 mile long yard sale once a year to lure out the city folks), has easter egg hunts, hosts the 4H groups, has a book lending library, that sort of thing. People don't really meet at them like they use to though because we all have cars and can go into town. The one over from me though (The Long Tom Grange) had older male members pose semi-nude and sold the calender to raise money for our school district, I think it might have made the national news, they made a lot of money for a few years for our school district. The Long Tom Grange also organizes a Daffodil festival every year when the daffodil's bloom. They are all volunteer driven. I really didn't know if other states had them or not. I did find these two links that were fun reading about the history of Granges from the Washington Grange folks.

http://www.wa-grange.org/history.htm

http://www.wa-grange.org/why_grange_needed.htm

Here's a pic that my husband took today of the old sticker that the farmer found.

I am a bit surprised by the decal. I thought it would be the IH logo with the circle C.

It appears to be a later decal with the I inside of the H in a square box.

It could help indicate the age. But, with that said, this plow could have been a dealer trade-in, and the dealer repainted it and applied new decals. A previous owner could have done the same thing.

BTW, is that blue paint on the plow??? Blue paint would be odd for an International.

But who knows? It has had many, many years and could have a long history.

I should add, I am not an expert. Far from it!!!! Sure have enjoyed this thread!!!!

Clove

There are still quite a few Granges in this area. There's 3 within 10 miles of here. Even so, there aren't near as many as there used to be. Used to be there was a Grange hall at just about every corner & cross road. We go to Grange once in a while but we're not full fledged members. Great place to see the neighbors & catch up on the local news.

That IH logo was not uncommon. We've
had several pieces with it over the years.
If it were not a continent away, I'd buy
that plow myself. I'm crazy about old
farm equipment. It'd be a crying shame
for the scrap yard to get it!

My husband said the plow might be an Ideal brand.. he first thought maybe it was horse-drawn, but then agreed it would most likely have been pulled by a crawler... just thought I'd mention that.

A lot of IH iron was painted blue, particularly digging implements like cultivators, harrows of many sorts, and plows. A lot of the old paint specifications and schemes are discussed within the McCormick collection, housed at the Wisconsin State Historical Society. Much of the collection is on line at

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/libraryarchives/ihc/

I spent hours in it when I went to school in Madison. Not that my avatar would indicate any sort of preference, of course...

Don

Just thought I'd say that my husband said it is red paint that says "international", he doesn't know why I thought it was a sticker (I thought that's what he said it was!). He said it looks like it has been painted many times, he sees traces of red, blue, and green paint on it.

Thank you Don for the link! I love antiques myself. One of the last trips we took we asked our older girls what their favorite part of the trip was, it was the trip to the historic houses on the Oregon Coast. We love to look through museums and historic sites.

Well, like the old saying, you learn something new every day! I had no idea that IH used blue on implements. Not sure that I have even seen an IH painted plow or implement before you mentioned it.

Don, what is the deal with the later IH logo? I truely thought this plow would have had the circle C IH logo.

Don, do you have an approximate date on the plow? I have said in earlier posts that the plow would have been early, but the logo dates it later.

While it may not the case with morningstar's plow, farmers have painted the moldboards (I can't remember the correct term right now!!!!) with whatever paint they had on hand as a rust preventative. This is often done, to this day. Rusty and pitted plows do not pull well in dirt. Grease is also used sometimes. Often, I have wondered if people got carried away with the paint, and started painting the entire plow.

Can anyone tell I have enjoyed this thread?

I have been to the link that Don shared many times before tonight.

As I read through, I see in the Paint Committee reports that many implements were painted red, white and blue.

Go figure! I had no idea!!!!

The things you learn on HT...........

Clovis, I won't pretend to any real expertise in the matter. This is pure speculation. I would guess the plow to be made no later than the 1920's, maybe 30's. I think this because of the toothed wheels; they were that way to get them out of the ground in an efficient way behind the low powered tractors of the day.

As far as the modern IH lettering and logo, well, any fool with a spare set of decals could have done that. I have an IHC spring toothed harrow of that vintage--- when I finally found the circle logo, it turns out to be the size of a dime, and located on a stretch of metal where you'd never have a reason to look. Nothing moves, bolts, greases or anything there. It may be similar on this plow.

That said, it would take a brute of a tractor to pull four bottoms in anything but the nicest, rock-free loam. The first tractors that IH refers to as "four bottom" are the late M's and 400's. They don't show up until the mid fifties. Perhaps this was built to be pulled by a crawler. No clue beyond that.

Some of the paint committee decisions were pretty mercurial.... Guy Fay probably knows what they were thinking; I believe he got to interview a few of them before they all checked out. One of the prettiest things I ever saw was a Demonstrator A or maybe Super A, white with red wheels and trim, and bright blue cultivators. The guy who has it is the son of an IH dealer of the day and they have had it all along. I don't believe it's ever been in the dirt... but it sure is pretty.

Don

Don,

That is interesting!

It makes you wonder about the history of the plow. Could the steel wheels been ordered that way? When did rubber tires on implements become the norm?

As for the decal, it sure looks vintage and in keeping with the age of the plow. But you are correct, anyone rebuilding or repainting could have added a decal later. And who knows? A dealer could have had that sitting on his lot for years, and decided to update it with a new decal.

I thought about posting a link on the forums at redpowermagazine.com. I am not a member there, but read the forums on occasion. Guy Fay posts there. On second thought, even if I posted a link there, I would hate for those guys to know how much of a neophyte I am!!!!

As a side note, many years ago, I saw a group of implements that were painted red, white and blue. I was perplexed, and thought it must be due to an old timer that wanted to show his patriotism! (Yet another clue to how dumb I am.)

Morningstar, you have me wanting that plow, and I don't even own a tractor!

Clove

You guys are really great . I can't tell you how much *I've* enjoyed this thread! We found this plow when my husband was clearing blackberry bushes, it was covered in a wall of them. I just love history and I can't believe we actually found a little bit of it. I sure wish I knew more about it. We bought our placed as a foreclosure that was bank owned and vacant for years.

I hope that the plow finds a new home where it can be appreciated and loved. I would love to see someone use it in a demonstration or field day. I would actually pay money to see that plow behind an antique crawler turning dirt!

Clove

Don't be afraid of the RedPower guys- they are the nicest, most tolerant and giving folks around; that community, and others like it, Yesterday's Tractors, Antique Tractor Forum, these are people people doing something for nothing for the love of it. Everybody was a newbie once. All they ask is that you search a little before asking-- your question may have already been answered. But even then, they roll up sleeves and jump in.

I could never pay for all the help they have given me.

Besides that, these guys love a good argument, hair-splitting or theoretical, and it's a good time for all.

Implements on rubber are pretty much post-war. Until the late 40's you could order your tractor on steel, but that largely died out by the end of the decade. I would assume there were the same options on implements, but I don't know that.

Morningstar, don't be in a hurry to get shed of that plow. You could Ebay it or put it in the Yesterday's Tractors classified ads and it would command a
fair price... not enough to retire on, but certainly better than scrap, which is in the tank right now. Beyond that, i feel it is sinful to be sending all this old iron and steel to the Chinese only for them to sell it back to us as new junk. That strikes me as unsustainable every which way.

Don