Question about home-canned vegetables

I've canned veggies for years and always boiled them before eating. Some things taste ok, like beets and corn, but I think the green beans are too mushy. I was just wondering what you all were doing. I think I'm going to go back to freezing my beans.

__________________
I cried because I had no shoes, until I saw a man who had no feet.

i have always thought that botulism required more than just boiling to kill the spores. This thread brought this subject back up to my attention and so I did a bit of checking. Heres what I learned "the spores survive 2 hours at 100°C (but die rapidly at 120°C)," Thats a direct quote from the centers for disease control. I therefor fail to understand why anyone would feel safer by boiling canned foods when even at sea level the water temp is only going to get to 100C or 212F It would require boiling at that rate for a minimum of two hours to kill the spores if they existed in the canned food. The spores are killed during the canning processif done correctly. The food temp reaches temps in excess of 250F under 15 lbs pressure. Boiling it later may make one feel better, but it will not actually do anything to protect you from botulism.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

I agree, but with the proper information, one can be safe, and not waste time and fuel.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

If I understand correctly you are not really trying to kill the spores by boiling, but to inactivate the toxin as that's what makes you so sick. Botulisum toxin is neutralized at temperatures greater than 60 °C.

__________________
Sarah,

If there are no dogs Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers

Canning is to kill the spores so they are not able to produce the toxins. The spores won't hurt you and if they were in the food you can, they would have been there if you had eaten the same item fresh. The spores produce toxin in an anarobic (no oxygen), damp environment, the toxins are the dangerous part.

The toxin will be neutralized by boiling. From what I've read, if you are in doubt, boil for 10mn to be safe.

Cathy

In the cdc literature they mentioned the toxin would be neutralized at 80C but thats still not safe. If the spores are in the food, they will produce more toxin. If the canning ws done correctly there will be no live spores nor toxin present so heating it the second time really doesnt help. If the canning was not done correctly, then of course there are spores as well as toxin, neutralizing the toxin is only half the battle however, as the spores would be active, and when consumed produce more toxin. Symptoms would take longer to appear but just as deadly. The key is to not ingest live botulism spores, or toxins. Home canning is quite safe, if done properly. If done properly there really is no need in boiling.

__________________
"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

They don't have to be at a hard boil for the 10 minutes. Bring them to a boil, then put a lid on & turn down to a low boil. That's hot enough to kill any toxin that might be present.

As someone else mentioned, the spores aren't normally a problem (which is good since they are everywhere), it's the toxin they produce in the perfect environment. And guess what the perfect environment is? No oxygen, low acid, temps 40-120, high moisture, & lacking in competing bacterial organisms. In other words, improperly canned meat & veggies.

The spores can produce toxin at other times, but that's extremely rare. Food-borne botulism is rare; in 2001, the latest year I could find, there were only 36 reported cases of food-borne botulism.

I taste-test canned foods after heating but before I give them to my family. I understand the bot toxin works extremely fast, so I shouldn't feel a thing.

__________________
God bless,
Bonnie
Opportunity Farm
Northeast Washington

"While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10

WIHH,

I'm laughing my head off here that you put my post up. Now everyone knows I'm a chicken weenie! Just kidding...

That is a good question about the spore vs the toxin. If anyone does find an answer, I'd love to hear or be able to read it myself.

Christy

__________________
Christy
Growing Human
http://growinghuman.blogspot.com

When wearing narrow lenses of hate and ignorance, is it any wonder one finds it difficult to see clearly? - Me

if consuming the spores is a problem, there are lots and lots of folks who eat fresh produce who are in a world of trouble.

__________________
this message has probably been edited to correct typos, spelling errors and to improve grammar...

"All that is gold does not glitter..."

Unless you are an infant, consuming the spores isn't a problem. That's why it's recommended that infants not eat honey, but it's perfectly OK for older kids and adults.

__________________
Sarah,

If there are no dogs Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers

Roughly 57 years eating home canned food and not dead yet.

__________________
Oak Harbor, Ohio

http://thelaubachermarriagechronicle.blogspot.com/

The current recommendation is to boil corn and spinach at a full rolling boil (start timer after boil is achieved)for 20 minutes before eating. Other low-acid vegetables and meats (though some are starting to recommend 20 minutes for meat as well) remain at the 10 minute rule.

I have canned for years and am pretty anal about being clean, time, pressure etc. It is my FOOD! Meat gets cooked for a bit but the veggies are brought to a boil and then simmered. I check for a "whoosh" of air when I open the jar and I inspect the seal on the lid. Botulism, according to my canning book, is not killed by boiling for ten or twenty minutes, other bacteria, yes.

Of course, if I get really paranoid I can go buy my food and take my chances that I have melamine, arsenic, lead or any number of bacteria like listeria in my food so it might be recalled, hopefully before I have eaten it.

I may have to go do some research now because I can't remember the facts I used to know about botulism....

__________________
tab

You're right, tab. The botulism organism isn't destroyed at 212 degrees, and neither are the spores it generates. That's why we don't process those foods in a boiling water bath. But the toxin from the spores that makes us sick IS neutralized by boiling. So the point with low-acid foods is to raise the temperature during processing to a level that WILL destroy the organism and the spores, and the point of boiling before consuming is to ensure that all of the toxin--in cases when our canning process might fail--is destroyed.