Is it irresponsible to not have health insurance?

big rockpile · #81 01/18/09, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogmammy

I remember that a touch over 40 years ago, health insurance wasn't all that common. If an employeer offered insurance, that was really nice, but not expected.

What was expected was that the bill would be paid, maybe slowly, but paid. Businesses/hospitals/doctors weren't as quick to turn unpaid amounts over to collection agencies...maybe the people who did not expect to pay their medical bills (or try to) contributed to this?

Just thoughts....

Mon

Well 40 years ago I didsn't know anyone that didn't have Insurance through work that paid 100% but i didn't know many that weren't Union workers.

Now my wife has some Insurance but its through her Part Time Job not her Full Time Job.

big rockpile

big rockpile · #82 01/18/09, 06:25 PM

Hey how many are paying into Medicare that has never used it or can't?

big rockpile

Scott SW Ohio · #83 01/18/09, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

Nope, not squirming out of anything here. My neighbor is perfectly free to set the value of his own life at whatever he wants to and is willing to pay for it. That has absolutely nothing to do with me.

Nope, you shouild pay only for the costs of having the care YOU need, and let the rest of us pay for the care we need. If you were to have that heart attack that would have been fatal to you without the care available today, feel free to NOT ACCEPT the treatments available today if you wish. Its your life, you have to decide the value of it. If however you opt to have the latest greatest treatments that are available, regardless of cost, then be prepared to step up to the counter and pay for said treatments. I prepare for those costs in advance, by purchasing insurance that I may never need again just in case I do. Its a part of being responsible for myself, and my own actions in life.

Lucky me - my job provides health and dental care for me and my family. No complaints about that!

Yvonne's Hubby, you assert that one should take responsibility for the cost of one's own care, and that nobody should expect that tax dollars, forcibly extracted from others, will pay their medical bills. I wonder how you feel about medical coverage for government employees and members of our growing military. Should these folks get medical care paid out of tax revenues forcibly extracted from you and me? Or do you make an exception for them?

the kid · #84 01/18/09, 06:44 PM

what I think is wrong is they charge the insurance co a lot less for my doc bill ,,, hosp stay and meds then they charge the person with out insurance ...
then to say that they do that so thay can make up for what they lose from the insurance ,, is what burns my a##
and the real surprise is when the doc ,, bitches about you not having insurance , and says the reason his bill is so high is because his malpractice insurance is a mil and have a year ... but when he left that spunge in you when you had,, surgery and you sue ,,, he never had malpractice insurance
tom

Scott SW Ohio · #85 01/18/09, 07:01 PM

Like I said in my last post, I get medical and dental coverage from the company I work for, which is a very large scrap metal broker and processor.

I read a lot of responses in this thread from people who are outraged that someone might get their medical expenses paid by the government, who would of course get the money by taxing all of us, whether we wanted our money to go for that person's medical bills or not.

But I receive my healthcare benefits in pretty much the same way. I mean, my employer does not really pay my medical premiums. They pass the costs along to foundries and steel mills, who pass them along to automakers and paper clip manufacturers and a zillion other companies - so if you buy anything made of metal in North America, you are involuntarily paying for my medical care. Just TRY to opt out.

And it's not just me. When you pick up a can of strained peas at Kroger's you are pitching in for the assistant manager's Viagra prescription. Buying gas? A Mobil Oil transport driver thanks you for covering the costs of his hernia surgery. And so on.

This got me to wondering - are those of you who are against government support of health care equally opposed to company-paid healthcare? Or do you maybe see this as OK as a "free market" thing, even though the effect is pretty much the same?

edcopp · #86 01/18/09, 07:14 PM

Benefits provided by the employer are a free market item. You work for the benefit, and in most cases the employee gives up some cash income to get the benefits.

This is very different from the guy who lays around all day watching his cable tv, until time to go out and about for the evening. He will have some sort of a problem that allows him to get free this and that including health care. Then when nobody is paying attention he will make a few hundred bucks "on the side". He works for his pocket, and not for his benefits. He needs to be culled from the herd, so to speak.

Scott SW Ohio · #87 01/18/09, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edcopp

Benefits provided by the employer are a free market item. You work for the benefit, and in most cases the employee gives up some cash income to get the benefits.

This is very different from the guy who lays around all day watching his cable tv, until time to go out and about for the evening. He will have some sort of a problem that allows him to get free this and that including health care. Then when nobody is paying attention he will make a few hundred bucks "on the side". He works for his pocket, and not for his benefits. He needs to be culled from the herd, so to speak.

I think we all can agree to vilify lazy and dishonest people, but most of the examples in this thread are the working poor.

Can you say why you think it's all right for me to extract my medical coverage from an unwilling you via the "free market" but not via taxes?

Yvonne's hubby · #88 01/18/09, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebesmum

First, socialism and freedom are not two incompatible things! We have a postal service and army based on socialist ideas--why not a health care system?

i find it interesting that you found two of the constitutionally allowed public services to compare the totally illegal/unconstitutional socialized medical programs to. first and formost that would be a right up front objection in my mind to the further devestation of our constitution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebesmum

I think this because I KNOW we are as strong as Canada and France and they have.

all three of those countries have a pretty much open borders policy, and there are air flights heading in all three direction anytime you feel the urge. Please dont create further chaos in my country if you wish to live in a socialist country. Please just pick one of your likeing, and go join in the fun.

Yvonne's hubby · #89 01/18/09, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott SW Ohio

Like I said in my last post, I get medical and dental coverage from the company I work for, which is a very large scrap metal broker and processor.

I read a lot of responses in this thread from people who are outraged that someone might get their medical expenses paid by the government, who would of course get the money by taxing all of us, whether we wanted our money to go for that person's medical bills or not.

But I receive my healthcare benefits in pretty much the same way. I mean, my employer does not really pay my medical premiums. They pass the costs along to foundries and steel mills, who pass them along to automakers and paper clip manufacturers and a zillion other companies - so if you buy anything made of metal in North America, you are involuntarily paying for my medical care. Just TRY to opt out.

And it's not just me. When you pick up a can of strained peas at Kroger's you are pitching in for the assistant manager's Viagra prescription. Buying gas? A Mobil Oil transport driver thanks you for covering the costs of his hernia surgery. And so on.

This got me to wondering - are those of you who are against government support of health care equally opposed to company-paid healthcare? Or do you maybe see this as OK as a "free market" thing, even though the effect is pretty much the same?

The basic difference twixt your case and that of the nonworking deadbeat is that your insurance is being paid by your employer "AS A PART OF YOUR EARNINGS" ie, you are essentially paying your own way. yes that cost is past on through the system in general but its part of the cost of doing business. Same as if you boss gave you cash instead. Your take home wages are also added to the cost of doing business, as is your companys portion of your social security, 401 k or other benefits you may be recieving in lieu of higher cash wages.

Wendy · #90 01/18/09, 10:30 PM

Quote:

You are so worried about having to take care of someone else, what happens if YOU are ever in the same boat? I see the people that have their own insurance here lording it over everyone else, calling them freeloaders, etc because they want to be taken care of and live just like anyone else.
God forbid you ever find yourself in such a situation, maybe you would have a little different perspective on things.

Very well said. I am one of those that used to have great insurance through my husband's employer. Job loss= loss of wages & insurance. Current job only offers it on hubby. So, I am without it. I don't like it, but we can't afford it. It's that simple. Any of you can come to my home & see we don't live in a luxurious house. We aren't wasting our money on things like satellite, eating out, etc. We live as simply as we can. A lot of people honestly can not afford the premiums. It's that simple.

Yvonne's hubby · #91 01/18/09, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott SW Ohio

Yvonne's Hubby, you assert that one should take responsibility for the cost of one's own care, and that nobody should expect that tax dollars, forcibly extracted from others, will pay their medical bills. I wonder how you feel about medical coverage for government employees and members of our growing military. Should these folks get medical care paid out of tax revenues forcibly extracted from you and me? Or do you make an exception for them?

I have no problem at all with valid government employees getting benefits packages from their employer. as long as they are earning them. I personally feel that our military is being short changed as the system currently exists. they are not paid enough and from what I have seen of the VA health care system I would vastly prefer a major change in current policy in favor of the vets. I do have a wee problem with the fact that roughly 90 percent of our federal employees are filling unconstitionally acceptable jobs. We can start with the elimination of the fda, the usda, all welfare and other public assistance programs at the federal level, along with many many others to numerous to mention. If its not specifically named in the constitution, the tenth amendment forbids them. If those agency are so all fired important, there should be no problem getting the constitutional amendements passed to make them legal. Is it really too much to ask to have our federal government conform to the law they supposedly operate under and our elected officials all swear under oath to protect and defend?

Yvonne's hubby · #92 01/18/09, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shygal

What about CANT pay for it. What about people that desperately want and need those services but CANT PAY FOR IT. What about the people who's child is dying and they have no insurance, they should just let nature take its course then, eh?

I had an aunt Bonnie who died at age 14 of a simple disease, quite treatable today but wasnt in 1940, not because my grandfather couldnt pay for treatment, but because there was no treatment available. The brutal reality is that sometimes life sucks, a fact that many need to learn to live with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shygal

Why should those people get to live and others die, because one can afford the ridiculous cost, and others cant? And you just said doctors never saved anyones life, yet tout all the things they can do to prolong it.

Yep, because some folks take the necessary steps to insure their lives are extended if crud happens to them. those that can pay the piper get to dance the dance. again, sometimes life stinks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shygal

Who decides who gets to live and who gets to die, you?

Thats never in my hands, or yours, only God decides who lives, who dies, and when. When He has finished amusing Himself with us, He will call us home, regardless of our puny efforts to stave off the inevitable. Until that time, we can continue to suffer and complain all we want.

Kelly · #93 01/19/09, 07:44 AM

14` `]

HermitJohn · #94 01/19/09, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

Yep, because some folks take the necessary steps to insure their lives are extended if crud happens to them. those that can pay the piper get to dance the dance. again, sometimes life stinks.

Except as others have pointed out, private insurance is no real insurance. They just have to deny your claim or pay tiny portion or force you to take them to court for years, knowing you will die before case even sees a jury. So you pays a lot of money for nothing. If you have the rare "congressional plan" that covers absolutely everything for token cost then more power to you, but it aint so for the great unwashed masses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

When He has finished amusing Himself with us

You worship a god that considers you an amusement. That explains a lot.

Shygal · #95 01/19/09, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

I had an aunt Bonnie who died at age 14 of a simple disease, quite treatable today but wasnt in 1940, not because my grandfather couldnt pay for treatment, but because there was no treatment available. The brutal reality is that sometimes life sucks, a fact that many need to learn to live with.
Yep, because some folks take the necessary steps to insure their lives are extended if crud happens to them. those that can pay the piper get to dance the dance. again, sometimes life stinks.

And don't you think it would be much much worse to have a 14 year old daughter and KNOW that she could be cured and live, and have someone tell you "sorry, you cant afford her life, too bad, life stinks" ? And watch her die, KNOWING you could save her, if you just had enough ----ed money?

I don't recall Jesus worrying about who could pay to be healed or not. Compassion for the poor is what I heard. But god forbid you should have your taxes go to helping them, eh?

So only the rich and well off deserve to live. Gotcha.

Sounds like the Middle Ages to me.

Ken Scharabok · #96 01/19/09, 08:01 AM

As noted above, when you choose not to have health insurance and then need some extensive medical assistance you are expecting me, no matter in how small of a part, to help pay for it. Sorry, but no.

Shygal · #97 01/19/09, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Scharabok

As noted above, when you choose not to have health insurance and then need some extensive medical assistance you are expecting me, no matter in how small of a part, to help pay for it. Sorry, but no.

How many people here do you see are "CHOOSING" to not have health insurance?
What do you want them to do, go without food , or what? Some people just cant afford it, you people talk like its something that you can be casual about deciding whether you have it or not, yeesh.

Shygal · #98 01/19/09, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Scharabok

As noted above, when you choose not to have health insurance and then need some extensive medical assistance you are expecting me, no matter in how small of a part, to help pay for it. Sorry, but no.

Oh yeah, by the way, stay off the part of the roads that are mine that I paid for with my tolls, and dont even think about expecting me to pay for your kids or grandchildrens schools , my part of them is off limit to everyone else.

And if you have a fire? Again, my part of the fire truck....no touching or using it.
Same with the ambulance, if my part happens to be the crash cart? Sorry, all mine, cant use it.

This kind of attitude really gets me, because youve no idea how many things YOU use that others have paid for, and thats just fine and dandy isnt it.

Phoebesmum · #99 01/19/09, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shygal

Oh yeah, by the way, stay off the part of the roads that are mine that I paid for with my tolls, and dont even think about expecting me to pay for your kids or grandchildrens schools , my part of them is off limit to everyone else.

And if you have a fire? Again, my part of the fire truck....no touching or using it.
Same with the ambulance, if my part happens to be the crash cart? Sorry, all mine, cant use it.

This kind of attitude really gets me, because youve no idea how many things YOU use that others have paid for, and thats just fine and dandy isnt it.

Shygal--I appreciate your attitude about this more than you will know! Our country is filled with "all about me" people--many people claim it is "freedom" and "rights" but no one is questioning the ETHICAL and MORAL "rights" of these things. If our country is to pull out of this recession, we MUST become a country that is more cognizant of others and not just the bottom line.

Phoebesmum · #**100** 01/19/09, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

i find it interesting that you found two of the constitutionally allowed public services to compare the totally illegal/unconstitutional socialized medical programs to. first and formost that would be a right up front objection in my mind to the further devestation of our constitution. all three of those countries have a pretty much open borders policy, and there are air flights heading in all three direction anytime you feel the urge. Please dont create further chaos in my country if you wish to live in a socialist country. Please just pick one of your likeing, and go join in the fun.

I acknowledge that I could leave the country and there have been fleeting moments when I have wondered if it would be worth it to--but moverwhelmingly and ultimately, I LOVE this country. This country was built BY individuals looking to live outside the "norm"--it is not changing the direction of the country to change things such as health care as our country grows--it is changing the direction of the country to NOT change things but to leave them as is due to a status quo. Why do you urge me to leave just because my view is different? Isn't my right to disagree with you an importent part of this country as well? In my mind, if YOU want a country that is ALL the same idea and opinion then YOU are in the wrong country--not me.