Is it irresponsible to not have health insurance?

Then why are you belly aching about what your neighbor does. Your problem is with the govt and health care providers that try to pass "free" care to those without insurance onto you via taxes and increased costs to those that do pay. Dont want to pay for your neighbor simply work to pass laws that those without insurance or a good enough credit rating are simply piled over in corner of hospital admittance lobby to writhe in pain until they expire.

Or if that bothers you can offer them euthanasia for $20 shot like they give dogs or horses that break their leg..... Its as simple as that and people can get along with their life as they see best. If you dont want to ban all insurance so market forces bring costs down as I suggest, and you dont want one payer "social" health insurance then this is only practical way. You have to put a value on saving a life and if that person is not economically worth the price you put them down like a horse that breaks its leg or otherwise can no longer labor to pay its keep. Its your choice and you have to own up to the stark realities of YOUR CHOICE. Revel in watching those loser neighbors of yours suffer and die because of bad economic choice or luck. Own your choice.

I personally have no problem if my neighbor wants to spend his entire income on chocolate bars, that is his buisiness. I am not going to try and force him to buy healthy balanced meals via govt regulation. Who hospitals/doctors accept is up to them based on their own conscience and that forced on them by govt regulation. Change govt regulation, then blame the hospitals if they put their charatable burden over onto you and your insurance company. Then again you might find they like that extra profit and those in charge want yet bigger barns to live in and yet more luxury cars and choose not to lower what they charge you and your insurance companies. But they are offering a service in a free market and its their duty to make as much profit off your pain and suffering as possible, correct?

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"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

But don't they have REALLY high taxes? Maybe they are satisfied with them merely because they do not have to pay anything out of pocket.

I don't know why so many people think they are entitled to other peoples' money.

Insurance is where you expect to be entitled to other people's money if you need it.

The people in the US pay more for health care then any country in the world and few if any have a no out of pocket coverage deal.

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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

We dont really need to pass new laws, just repeal the ones that require docs and hospitals to provide services to folks who wont pay for those services. Why is it my responsibility to place a value on someone elses life if they wont? I own my choices, thats fer sure, but is there some reason I should pay for choices that others own? Do I revel in other folks misfortunes? Nope, bad things happen all the time, and its sad. I have yet to hear of a doc that actually saved anyones life, they can prolog the agony sometimes, but nobody lives forever.

I have to agree there is way too much government involvement in every aspect of our lives, you will get no quarrel from me on that part. I see no need in any professional to offer their services for free, and the health care pros are no different. Lawyers make pretty good money too, as do many other professionals. Profit in and of itself is not an evil thing, it provides progress if nothing else. Without the profit motive we would not have the fantastic treatments we have today.......at any cost! Hundreds of thousands of people are now living much longer due to the treatments for cancer alone that were simply not around as little as 30 years ago. Think of how many folks now survive heart attacks that would have died just a few years back. Folks seldom survived a broken neck 40 years ago. These treatments we have today are a direct result of the profit motivated research and developements of the last few decades. Its not cheap but its available. Is there some reason those folks who wish to utilize this technology should not pay their share of the costs involved in producing it?

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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

Question was Is it irresponsible to not have health insurance?
is it irresponsible to work for a company that goes out of business and a person loses their job?
is irresponsible to not have enough money to pay for health ins?

I retired with lifetime med benifits and feel sorry for the people that can't afford just the basic coverage with a small deductable. many even with Ins, can't even afford the co-pay. my neighbor pays a 100. for emergency rm, 25 for an office visit, 40 for a specialist, 500. for an operation.

Well, sorta, but its a lot different than using tax money extracted by force from your neighbors. Insurance is a method of pooling resources by a number of folks to have cash on hand to pay for the costs when and if needed by those folks. Its also a voluntary thing. No one is forced to carry insurance on themselves if they dont want to. Its a personal decision, taxes are not.
We also have a pretty slick set up when it comes to obtaining health care when needed compared to a lot of other countries.

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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

Not really, no.

and there have been a couple of threads about this very topic, with those who live in Canada primarily, as well as a few other countries with more socialized medical systems.
It's always a very obvious vote for universal health care.

Something people often forget is that the US already pays more per capita, and percent of our GDP than any other country on the planet for our health care. And it's not universal!
The thought is usually that because it's not universal there is so much more administration and red tape....

So you think it's irresponsible, then, not to be insured??
Because whether people are covered by tax payments into a government pool, or covered by the insured when they aren't, the only way to avoid thinking one is "entitled to other people's money" is to be sufficiently insured.

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~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

Insurance has turned into a perverted excuse to gold plate medical provider and drug prices. Its not a slick setup.

Ban insurance, then let providers compete in a truly free market for consumer out of pocket money, then its a slick setup.

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"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

My husband is from Canada and we lived there for about 16 months when we were first married. During that time he was successfully treated (treatment, then surgery) for Crohn's disease. He got wonderful, immediate care and wasn't shuffled right out of the hospital like they do here. He was allowed to recover completely in the hospital.
Those of you who knock the Canadian system, have never experienced it.
However, each province is slightly different; we lived in Ontario.
We are both self-employed and have had Blue Cross/Blue Shield for about 10 years. A couple years ago we switched to an HSA which is basically catastrophic insurance. 212.00 goes towards the premium (11,000.00), and 200.00 goes into an HSA that gets a pretty good interest rate. If we never use the money in the HSA, when we turn 65 we can use it like a retirement account, taking withdrawals for whatever we chose or to supplement our other retirement money. It is a pretty decent deal considering up until we got the HSA, we were just basically throwing 400.00 down the tubes because we never go to the doctor (knock on wood). We also do not have children. We do still get a yearly physical for free under this program and I get a mammogram.
Prior to that we had no health insurance after we moved back to the States, as a matter of fact I never had health insurance until I was 36.

So if your total worth was $100 and a required emergency medical procedure cost $101, then its your fault that you wont pay for those services. Glad to know you wont be upset for being denied emergency service cause you "wont" pay. But as I say, I am not heartless, I would support letting the hospital offer you a euthanasia shot at cost.

And by refusing to be your brothers keeper, so to speak, you by default set the value of your neighbors life at $ZERO$. No way to squirm out of it no matter how much you want to. But dont get upset when I dont call police when somebody is hauling off all your worldly goods while you are away for the day. You see I dont want to have the tax money extracted from me for the gas or wear/tear cost that the cop cars would use to come out and investigate. Your stuff has zero value to me so why should I care. Matter of fact why should I pay for cops at all, I can just set up a bunker and spend all my time defending my stuff from theives. And fire dept, heck why should I care if your house burns, you were stupid to build it out of flamable materials.

So in order to subsidize your desire to be able to survive a heart attack or to survive a broken neck or severe gun shot injuries, or AIDS, I should have to pay more than necessary to get my broken leg set?????? See some things that were cheap to take care of back in '40s 50s and 60s now require second mortgage. I am in other words subsidizing all the fancy high tech crap when I would be happy with medical care available back when it was affordable out of pocket. Heck I have an elderly friend who likes to tell story of when he was a kid in the 20s where he broke his arm. Local doc worked out of a room in his own house and set the arm for a whopping $7. Used boards salvaged from an old orange crate as a splint. Now $7 wasnt exactly trivial back then but it just meant that my friends family maybe didnt eat as well for next month or so.

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"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

Nope, not squirming out of anything here. My neighbor is perfectly free to set the value of his own life at whatever he wants to and is willing to pay for it. That has absolutely nothing to do with me.

Nope, you shouild pay only for the costs of having the care YOU need, and let the rest of us pay for the care we need. If you were to have that heart attack that would have been fatal to you without the care available today, feel free to NOT ACCEPT the treatments available today if you wish. Its your life, you have to decide the value of it. If however you opt to have the latest greatest treatments that are available, regardless of cost, then be prepared to step up to the counter and pay for said treatments. I prepare for those costs in advance, by purchasing insurance that I may never need again just in case I do. Its a part of being responsible for myself, and my own actions in life.

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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

I think that any time someone sets himself or herself up to be a potential burden to others it's a form of "irresponsibility".

I believe that people do occasionally need a hand up, and it should be given. But I'm also a firm believer in the concept of personal responsibility. IF you're capable of affording insurance, but aren't willing to pay, then you have just assumed a whole lot of personal risk.

I don't want to see you turned away from critical care, nor do I want to see you "euthanized". But, I also won't bat an eye when they slap a lien on everything you own when you fail to pay your medical bills.

Chuck

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Might does not make right, but it sure makes what is.

Exactly as I said and you can hire your own police and fire dept and army to fight if this country is invaded cause you set the value and what happens to you is none of my concern. You also should get to negotiate on toll for roads when you leave your property. Not my responsibility to provide you with free roads or to maintain those roads. Your neighbor wants to charge you $1M to gain access, well guess you can pay or again hire your own army.

So you will give me the regulatory authority to seperate out those traditional medical procedures like setting broken leg. Maybe allow some sort of junior "bare foot" doctor to open their own low cost clinics to handle traditional medical needs. You six million dollar men can pay your own high tech stuff. Cause frankly when I go have my broken leg set, I have to help pay for the facilities that allow you to get you the absolute life support for that extra 6 month when you are 98 whether I want to or not. YOur high tech people have used govt to protect you from low cost competition. Doesnt take much for country doc to set and splint my leg out on his back porch, but the hundred million dollar facilities and high tech machines/drugs to provide the care you want cost whole lot more. And if us low cost low tech users take that extra profit out of your system then you will pay more.

If you havent noticed the reason the medical companies are pushing to require people to buy insurance is to protect their own profits and growth potential. They are running into brick wall where the people with resources to afford the high tech services already have them and are diminishing in number. They now want to force those on marginal edge to join in order to maintain their gold plated profits.

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"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy

"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman

First, socialism and freedom are not two incompatible things! We have a postal service and army based on socialist ideas--why not a health care system? I highly doubt there are many Canadians who think they do not have freedom because of socialism AND I know MANY Canadians and have read a lot of articles in which Canadians feel that our health care system is absurd! I guess in this case people in both countries like to think the grass is greener on our own sides! Personally I think that the US is a strong enough nation to successfully have a national health care system without coming anywhere close to risking our freedom. I think this because I KNOW we are as strong as Canada and France and they have.

I believe it is far more irresponsible for people who live high risk lifestyles and then expect the medical community to fix/save them. How much business would the hospitals and doctors be getting if everyone used a bit more sense in life? If people turned to alternative medicine first instead of running to the ER for a cold. (not everyone does but a fwe times I have been at the ER I have seen people there who really had no good reason for it) People live extremely unhealthy lives which burdens others. how much of your medical premiums are going to help pay the medical costs of someone who decided to be 400 lbs, smoke several packs of cigs a day, drink booze in the evening and then finds his body is a mess? How many people out there having heart attacks eat as if there are no consequences?

Maybe if more people had to pay for their medical treatment out of pocket that we would no longer be a country of mass obesity! Now before someone jumps down my throat for that statement. I was 270 lbs only 18 months ago. I was that severely obese person until I realized quite a few things. Today I am 140 lbs and I did not go to the doctor for it. I did not get surgery. I did it with my own money and time. There are so much health benefits to losing weight, eating healthier and not putting so much toxins into our body.

I think we all need to be more responsible for our individual health and that would in turn bring down health care costs and that maybe we would even find tv full of commericals of doctors begging for patients. Can you imagine a doctor who is so slow that he has to file for unemployment? Now that would be ideal!! But instead doctors are getting kick backs from drug reps who then in turn give you the drugs which requires more doctor visits and we are just a very drugged up, obese nation who is so dependent upon the medical field that the prices for things are out of sight. For those who dont want health insurance, and are fine with paying out of pocket for expenses, finds it so hard because of the burden "insured" people have placed on the field with all their small silly excuses/reasons to go to the doctor which drove up the cost in the first place. And because of the people who live very unhealthy livestyles which now requires a lot of medical intervention to live.

Lovely words.

And if you are living paycheck to paycheck, where do you expect people to GET the money to pay for this lovely insurance?

Do you think its always a "eh, I dont want it so I wont get it" kind of choice for people??

Where are they to get the money from, out their butts? Off a tree in the back? 2-400 dollars is a LOT of money per month. I am an RN and I could not afford that, I dont know how people working in McDonalds are expected to pay for that so you dont have to pay for them .

I went without health insurance for years, because I COULDNT AFFORD IT. It was not a choice for me, it was not affordable, period. And I was scared to death that something would happen , because I didnt know what the hell I would do.

You are so worried about having to take care of someone else, what happens if YOU are ever in the same boat? I see the people that have their own insurance here lording it over everyone else, calling them freeloaders, etc because they want to be taken care of and live just like anyone else.
God forbid you ever find yourself in such a situation, maybe you would have a little different perspective on things.

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Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

What about CANT pay for it. What about people that desperately want and need those services but CANT PAY FOR IT. What about the people who's child is dying and they have no insurance, they should just let nature take its course then, eh?

Why should those people get to live and others die, because one can afford the ridiculous cost, and others cant? And you just said doctors never saved anyones life, yet tout all the things they can do to prolong it.

Who decides who gets to live and who gets to die, you?

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Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

Been staying away from this but can't resist any longer My wife works just to have insurance but is really not able to work .Without ins. her meds are over one grand a month If she puts me on her plan after gas her pay check wouldn't keep up her car When a hospital charges five bucks for an aspirin an lots of other inflated charges who they robbing ??? Are they robbing the ones paying insurance ??? I got an old house cars and logging equipment plus an old sawmill . By the time you pay tax fuel and pay for the right to use these things not much left .If i operated like some loggers do i could afford lots of things but i got to live with me . If i need much medical care i will check into going outside the USA for it .

Nevermind.

The problem with these systems tend to be associated with poorly understood disorders like mine. I have a mitochondrial disorder. It's tough to find a good doctor here. There's no way I'd have been able to find the testing, and have it covered, in Canada.

Most people tend to be happy with these systems. But most people don't have costly, difficult to treat, disorders. These people are NOT happy.

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Moms don't look at things like normal people.
-----DD