Is it irresponsible to not have health insurance?

ErinP · #41 01/17/09, 04:09 PM

If I had those disorders here in the US I would have gone bankrupt and/or quite likely been inadequately treated, as I'm underinsured.

Win07_351 · #42 01/17/09, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whinnyninny

It'll probably mean much higher taxes, so I am not looking forward to it.

And probably likened to a dreaded trip to the local DMV. (take a number and have a seat please).

willow_girl · #43 01/17/09, 05:00 PM

Quote:

That said do you think it's irresponsible for an individual or a family to go without some form of health insurance?

Yes, if you are able to obtain it, and merely choose not to do so.

I once scaled back on a job I enjoyed very much, and took a different one I didn't like at all, in order to have health insurance. It just seemed like the right thing to do.

Yvonne's hubby · #44 01/17/09, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldc

I have a "catastrophic" high deductible Blue Cross plan, and the above poster was correct who said that the monthly premiums go up every year, and then many find it out of their reach. Esp.once you hit 50; that is one of their cut-off dates. Also for those who say they farm as their primary occupation, as farming is a red flag, as is smoking! Anyway, in 2008, my monthly went from $160 to $240, unless I go to a $5000 deductible (at age 53). In 2008 the deductible was $3000. I only go every 2 or 3 yrs for a bone scan for a genetic problem, due to the out of pocket expense. I've worked for esteemed universities, non-profits, and well-known American companies and never had a plan that covered dental or eyes. I eat great food that I grow and have exercised my whole life, but can tell that familial health problems are starting, about 30 years earlier than they did for my parents. It gives me pause...as these high deductible plans mean you are self-insuring anyway, in addition to the monthly premiums. ldc

i agree that insurance keeps going up. Mine just went up 10 percent this past month to 550 a month. I am in several high risk groups though, cancer survivor, farmer, smoker and drinker at age 57. Reading some of the responses here promted me to do some online searches and found some of the quotes here rather high compared to what I found available. for instance someone posted that theirs would cost at least 1500 a month. According to the searches I did in the greensboro area of NC a female smoker, with a husband that smokes, under 50 with two kids there are rates available in the 400 to 500 a month range for the whole family. i think most folks that dont have insurance just dont want to pay the price, and will probably not pay the bills if/when they have serious medical issues to pay for. It is irresponsible in my opinion to do without insurance to pay the extremely high costs that can be incurred so easily these days. for those of you who dont have it because you feel that you are living a healthy lifestyle...... accidents happen to the most healthy people, and can cost hundreds of thousands in care. Feel free to check out estimated costs of a broken neck, very common and with todays medical expertise no longer a death sentence. But bring your wallet to pay for the care required, or an insurance card. i really get tired of paying higher premiums to cover the expenses of those who wont pay their share and still expect the care when they need it.

Phoebesmum · #45 01/17/09, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

Lets see, my emergency cell phone is pay as you go and works out to $10 a month. My internet is dialup and costs $3.34 a month. My car is an old 4wd Ford Ranger I bought for $600 at an auction. So thats lets see about $760 though truck will go many years so lets say I sold the truck for $600 and put that money into a bank CD and get a whopping 1% interest (thank you Bill Clinton and George Bush for the cheap interest rates) or about $6 a year. So what insurance or medical bills will this $166 a year pay off??? Show me any kind of usefull medical policy for $166 a year and I'll gladly do it since you say this is possible and socially responsible. And think of all that excercise of walking 20 miles to town and packing supplies 20 miles back home in a backpack cause it would take several trips each month to do this.

This brings me back to medical pricing being so much out of realm of most people's reality that there just isnt any comparison. Should I sell all this off, become homeless living in a cardboard box so I can be socially responsible and buy maybe a month of medical insurance?

Its still simple those worried about a penny of their earnings going to pay for somebody else should get laws passed so hospitals and other medical providers can refuse service even to those bleeding and dieing if check on their financial status shows they arent worth saving. Obviously somebody who will never earn enough to pay the bill plus interest isnt worth the cost to fix them. But since we are a humane Christian nation, we should splurge to pay for the shot to put them down like livestock too old to be worth their keep. And thinking about it, maybe the body can be sold to the glue factory to pay for the shot to put them down. We'd want to pay full suggested retail price to the drug company making the shot though instead of negotiating a wholesale price. Wouldnt want to short change any honorable corporate citizen.

Well, I see that I hit a nerve with you and that was not my intention--if your bills are as you say and, as I said, public transportation is not an option, then I would never think you were being irresponsible for not having insurance. I know several people who choose to not carry health insurance offered by their company because it is "too expensive" at $60 to $100 per month but they have the latest cellular gadgets, texting and internet cell phone plans, current laptops with wireless internet, large cable packages, sports cars and the latest Wii games--THOSE types of people are the ones who I think are irresponsible.

Michgranny · #46 01/17/09, 06:08 PM

Health Insurance is way out of my price range. Even when it was offered at my last job, I could not afford it! I am only a high school graduate and 53 years old, lucky to get any job! I know I should have gotten a better education, but it is to late now! My priority now is to pay utilities, taxes and insurance! Where do you draw the line? I could cancel my internet, phone, live in the dark, just above freezing, eat beans and not even have a dog to keep me company! Then maybe I could afford health insurance. What kind of a life is that?

HermitJohn · #47 01/17/09, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebesmum

Well, I see that I hit a nerve with you

Just a bugaboo about people who want to dictate how I live my life and spend my money. As I say if you dont like it that people get treated that dont have insurance then rather than trying to force your neighbor to spend his hard earned money for things you think are important, you should push for laws that let hospitals run quick credit/insurance checks on anybody who comes into the emergency room and those without the financial backing to pay can be piled over in corner and offered euthanasia shot to put them out of their misery for $20.

Trying to make somebody into an indentured payment slave in exchange for medical treatment is no kindness at all.

Togg Lovers · #48 01/17/09, 06:31 PM

Health insurance is actually more expensive than paying yourself if you are in general good health. Hospitals and drs. will offer a much lower price if you just say you aren't insured and you can't pay that much. Example: ER bill for son who needed stitches was $1500. Called and said I had no insurance and could on;y pay $700. They said that would be fine if I could pay that off in 3 months. Insurance is the reson Drs. and Hospitals are not competitive when it comes to prices. This is what happens when you mess with a free market system.

edcopp · #49 01/17/09, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whinnyninny

I don't know that I'd call it irresponsible to not have insurance coverage, but I'd call it irresponsible to not pay ones' medical bills and expect the charges to be passed on to other people (other hospital patients, taxpayers, etc). Catastrophic coverage would be a wise idea.

That covers almost half of the population. They have a "medical card". That means that the others who do not have a "medical card" get the pleasure of paying the bills one way or another.

Wolf mom · #50 01/17/09, 06:43 PM

If you have NO income, or very little income, most states have some sort of health insurance. For low income, the tobacco tax helps support insurance for them.

I'm really tired of this question popping up as most here are trying to be responsible for themselves. There is always major medical/catastrophic insurance or even insurance with a high deductable.

If everyone went online to their state, I'm sure they'd find some sort of insurance offered by their state for the low/no income group.

Actually, it's the people that earn over a certain amount, but can't afford insurance are the ones everyone should be concerned about. But, then, or new president will take care of all that & we'll all pay through the nose for it.

Marie04 · #51 01/17/09, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Togg Lovers

Health insurance is actually more expensive than paying yourself if you are in general good health. Hospitals and drs. will offer a much lower price if you just say you aren't insured and you can't pay that much. Example: ER bill for son who needed stitches was $1500. Called and said I had no insurance and could on;y pay $700. They said that would be fine if I could pay that off in 3 months. Insurance is the reson Drs. and Hospitals are not competitive when it comes to prices. This is what happens when you mess with a free market system.

That is similar to what providers must accept as payment if they are 'participating' with certain insurance companies and Medicare.. if they do it for them, then it would seem reasonable that they would accept lower payments from the uninsured...

ErinP · #52 01/17/09, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Health insurance is actually more expensive than paying yourself if you are in general good health.

You have no idea what kind of health you're actually in. It's always a gamble. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you don't.

We just got back from a benefit supper/auction for a neighbor.
("Erin! Are you bidding or are you telling wild stories??" lol Sorry Glen, telling wild stories. I'll quit flappin' my arms!)

Bob (38, strong, healthy) had been having pain in his back all through harvest. He went to the chiro a couple of times, but no real fixes, so he went to an MD to get checked out. Turns out he had a herniated disk.

They also found bone cancer in his sternum.
Within six hours of his back conversation, he was getting his first round of chemo...

Wendy · #53 01/17/09, 10:57 PM

I have no insurance. Hubby has insurance on himself through his work. To add me would have been about $100 a week which is waaaay out of our price range. Kids are on state coverage. I would love to have insurance on me, but we can't afford it right now. DH doesn't always work 40 hours, so we are stretching things most times. Most places around here are laying off, not hiring, so finding another job is not an option right now.

Like a lot of people, he had a wonderful job with wonderful benefits & insurance. When he lost that, we took a pretty big pay cut. Our savings was gone by the time he found another job. So, it is not always a person's fault for not having insurance. Life happens.

I recently had my gall bladder removed & a hernia repaired. I have worked out payments with everyone & no one is making a big deal over it. Before surgery was scheduled there was another test the surgeon wanted to do. It would have cost about $2,000. I told him I did not have insurance & he was fine without doing the other test as the first test was a pretty good indication of a bad gall bladder. I know they tend to cover their butts by running numerous tests, but sometimes they just aren't necessary.

My SIL had the same symptoms I did for over 3 years. Her surgeon sent her for test after test after test. She has wonderful insurance through my brother's employer. The surgeon told her he was 100% certain it was not her gall bladder & actually wanted to send her to someone because it was all in her head, as he put it. I talked her into seeing my surgeon for another opinion. Guess what?? It was her gall bladder. Her surgery was a week after mine. She endured 3 years of pain & tests that were not needed. If the first surgeon would have removed her gall bladder when the test showed it to be bad instead of telling her it was in her head & sending her for more tests, it would have saved tens of thousands of dollars.

I sometimes think when you have insurance they tend to drag things out to get even more money. When you tell them you don't have insurance, suddenly the test isn't really needed.

As far as saying a person is irresponsible if they don't carry insurance, you don't know their circumstances. The only extra we have is our internet & it is only $12 a month. If I could find coverage for that, I'd drop my internet & buy it.

Phoebesmum · #54 01/17/09, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

Just a bugaboo about people who want to dictate how I live my life and spend my money. As I say if you dont like it that people get treated that dont have insurance then rather than trying to force your neighbor to spend his hard earned money for things you think are important, you should push for laws that let hospitals run quick credit/insurance checks on anybody who comes into the emergency room and those without the financial backing to pay can be piled over in corner and offered euthanasia shot to put them out of their misery for $20.

Trying to make somebody into an indentured payment slave in exchange for medical treatment is no kindness at all.

I would never expect someone to live as an "indentured servant" and never even suggested that I would but when people are choosing these luxury items over insurance and then going to the hospital emergency rooms for colds and other minor problems and not paying their bills so therefore the hospital has to jack up its rates on ME to pay for YOU, I DO have a problem with that! My mother works for the local hospital and sees this ALL the time. (and YES, I do think that fancy cell phones, expensive and impractical vehicles, etc are luxuries and NEVER necessities--yes that is a judgement on other people's behavior, but if we are to survive as a country, we have GOT to stop thinking "Me first, what I want I should have, I'm most important" and move towards "What I WANT is important but does it cause harm or interfere with other's NEEDS and if it does do should I ethically still have a RIGHT to it?") Many people literally use the hospital emergency room as a walk-in clinic. Why don't they just go to a walk-in clinic?!I firmly believe we need a national health care system to reign in the out of control insurance companies, reign in the out of control health care costs and provide health insurance for ALL. Surely, if places like Canada and France can successfully have a system--heck even CUBA has a decent health care system--then WE can and for MUCH less than we currently spend as a nation!

Phoebesmum · #55 01/17/09, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinP

Comparing to friends and family who live in Canada, Ireland and the UK; I highly doubt it.

THANK YOU!! You are absolutely correct--Canada, UK, France all have successful government programs that their citizens are overwhelmingly happy with and they cost a fraction per person compared to what we pay per person for health care in the U.S.

Yvonne's hubby · #56 01/18/09, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebesmum

THANK YOU!! You are absolutely correct--Canada, UK, France all have successful government programs that their citizens are overwhelmingly happy with and they cost a fraction per person compared to what we pay per person for health care in the U.S.

I dont know too many people from Canada, or from the UK, or from France, but the few that I do know and have spoken to about it tell me they might as well be "happy" with the systems, because they have no choice in the matter. One of my Brit friends is quite discontented with the socialism in his country for sure, and the one lady that I am acquainted with from France is so proud to be able to recieve benefits from either country, her own or mine that I doubt the validity of anything she has to say one way or the other. She has never contributed to the US economic structure one thin dime in taxes, always taking out of the pool instead, I presume her tactics are similar in her own country. As an American and one who has worked and paid taxes all my life, well since I was 15 anyway, I think we shoiuld pay our own way in life, and be proud to have the opportunity to do so, of our own choice. For those who want socialized health care, I would strongly urge you to move to Canada, the UK, or perhaps France. They have socialism in those countrys, why mess up a country based on the concept of freedom? Do we not already have enough social programs and governments interference now?

Shygal · #57 01/18/09, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinP

I don't think anyone is talking full coverage insurance. Definitely not something that would include dental! (I haven't had dental coverage in nearly 20 years)
For that matter, maternity coverage is an additional, significant, cost...

Just catastrophic.
And that's no where near $1,500 per month. More like $2-400

and you think 2-400 a month is affordable??

Yvonne's hubby · #58 01/18/09, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shygal

and you think 2-400 a month is affordable??

I think thats much more affordable than 100 to 200 thousand for a major medical issue. Or perhaps you think that getting the care and passing that cost onto the others who do pay into the system is even a better deal? Or maybe you would be that one in ten thousand who would simply say, I cant afford it and go home and die? Todays medical treatments cost money, lots of money and if you dont want to pay for your share of that cost, why do you think you are entitled to the care? Insurance is a cost sharing program, paid for by those who feel the need to pay their fair share, instead of having others pay for them. Why is this such an issue? Would you expect others to buy your home for you? Your cars? Your groceries?

Mostie · #59 01/18/09, 06:43 AM

Just another comment here, on health insurance- reminds me of when I was in my late teens, and my mom had insurance with a very well known company for both she and I, and had it for years at the time- well, I had to go to the emergency room one night, insurance was billed, for the first time (after she had it for around 7 years, and had been paying her premiums religiously and on time), they sent a letter stating I wasn't covered, but SHE was....then, major heart surgery for my mom...$100,000 in hospital/dr. bills, this was in 79- here comes another letter, stating that I was covered, but SHE wasn't- they never did pay the bills- and eventually sent her back some payments she had made to the insurance, and told her that her policy was canceled, asked her to send back all paperwork that they had previously sent her- she was extremely ill at the time, and didn't sue them- but just goes to show you that insurance companies don't always come through, no matter how long you've been paying.

mdharris68 · #60 01/18/09, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mostie

Just another comment here, on health insurance- reminds me of when I was in my late teens, and my mom had insurance with a very well known company for both she and I, and had it for years at the time- well, I had to go to the emergency room one night, insurance was billed, for the first time (after she had it for around 7 years, and had been paying her premiums religiously and on time), they sent a letter stating I wasn't covered, but SHE was....then, major heart surgery for my mom...$100,000 in hospital/dr. bills, this was in 79- here comes another letter, stating that I was covered, but SHE wasn't- they never did pay the bills- and eventually sent her back some payments she had made to the insurance, and told her that her policy was canceled, asked her to send back all paperwork that they had previously sent her- she was extremely ill at the time, and didn't sue them- but just goes to show you that insurance companies don't always come through, no matter how long you've been paying.

Very good point made here. Deny, defend, and delay are the main tactics of the worst insurance companies. Here's a list of the top ten worst. I am still baffled buy the ones here that claim it's irresponsible to not buy into this corrupt business.

http://law.freeadvice.com/insurance_...-companies.htm