LOng/restrictions enforceable?
 

Hi. just wanted to share my excitement. last night we closed on the 5 acres adjoining our 21 acre parcel. It is so exciting and especially so since it is all paid for! I never thought i would make it through this life actually owning anything! Now our goal is to pay off other debt in hopes to eventually be able to get out there. There is no house or building at all..just an old camper we occasioannly camp in.
The 21 acre parcel has restrictions to new mobile homes...and stick built houses at least 1100 sq feet. The land(5 acres) we just bought was originally under those same restrictions, but when we closed nothing was said about restrictions.Since it was originally purchased under same restrictions...but noone formally made us aware of restrictions.....wondering if we can sneak by. There is absolutely NO zoning on the majority of the land. I called city hall and I don't even need a building permit..no septic inspection....wow freedom!.The restrictions are made by the original seller and are to be enforced by the others that bought from this huge tract. If we hadnt already delt with the restrictions in place. we would have no idea that the 5 acres was restricted. Think there's a loop hole there if it were to come to court? Its not like anyone will even be able to see our house./ The reason i ask,,is if we can buy a good conditioned older double wide..we can get there ALOT sooner... thanks

Have you...or better yet, an attorney...read the title?

You are asking for trouble. Just because no one told you about EVERY driving law when you got your license doesn't mean you can break the law and plead ignorance.

It's not the responsibility of the agent to tell you about the restrictions. That is your responsibility and any court will tell you that. The reason restrictions were put in place is to keep exactly what you want to do from happening. You could be sued by the surrounding landowners. If you move a mobile home onto the property you will be forced to remove it and that could cost big time. The reason I know this is because I sold a piece of lake property and the new owners did exactly that. The lot had restrictions against mobile homes not only from me but from the township. It ended up costing the new owner so much to remove and then sell the trailer that they lost the land.

we paid to have it closed at an attorney/title company. Is that what you mean?

You need to see an attorney before you do anything.I do not think there are no septic restrictions.There are township , county, state and federal restrictions to contend with.I would have an attorney handle the purchase to begin with to check for a clear title and other things.I have always done this in Iowa and it has saved me money and agravation.Your state may be different, but I doubt it.Be patient and things will work out for you.

It's not the responsibility of the agent to tell you about the restrictions. That is your responsibility and any court will tell you that...........

Is it the responsibility of the lawyer/title company? How would a "normal " person have any idea of restrictions if No one told them? and they had hired a professional..almost 600 bucks..to close? Seems to me that it should be brought to buyers attention by the professionals they hire to close?or someone. I have bought several homes and have never followed behind the folks closing the properties to check that they covered all their bases. It doesnt matter so much for us..because we really DID know...and if we decide to go for it..we know what could happen;;but how bout a family that bought that land having no idea of restrictions.?You would think that it needs to be discolsed somewhere.

Dig out your closing documents and carefully read the CCR's. That stands for "Covenants, Codes, and Restrictions" pertaining to a parcel here in my state.

Once you have a thorough understanding of those, find out what conditions are prohibited by your local governing authority-county, township, whatever.

There may be a sunset situation (not likely though) where the CCRs expire after a certain length of time-this varies by county/township/state. And if all else fails, call your local property tax office, they will know also.

You can do this yourself for free. Go to the courthouse and do a deed/title search yourself. It's really pretty easy and you will find the trail of deeds leading to yours. If they have a restriction it will appear on the deed.

[QUOTE=wwubben;3526711]You need to see an attorney before you do anything.I do not think there are no septic restrictions.There are township , county, state and federal restrictions

Hi. Thanks! I may have misunderstood but when I called the county office they told me do whatever i want......I said ok so I just apply for a building permit and he said..you dont need any permit....just do what you want....
We did have the property title checked and went thru an attorney /title company. we should be getting the deed in a few weeks.
Who would i contact to find outr about state regulations? thanks again

pouncer
it is the tax appaiser they had me speak with. This is backwoods rural....exactly what i wanted. Noone to tell me I can't park on the grass!

"Normal" people? "Normal" people would read the title and ask questions BEFORE purchasing the land. I have seen countless times where a person bought land with one intention but then couldn't use the land. About 2 miles from me is a piece of land that was sold and the property would not perk - it is muck. Now, AFTER the sale they found out that they could not build on the property and tried to sue the seller, but it was clearly stated that it was RECREATIONAL property only - camping, hunting, ect. and was the purchasers responsibility to get a perk, which they didn't do. Now they own a 10 acre muck field.

Another piece in my county was a farm that was way off the road and the new owners put in a half-mile road across wetland to get a quicker access to the barns. They did not get permission (that portion of the farm was under wetland ordinances) and went ahead and made the road anyway AFTER the county posted the ordinance with their property tax letter. Long story short - the new owners had to remove the road and restore the land back to its original condition - and it cost nearly 4 times the cost of the road to remove it and restore the property.

You are clearly trying to cheat at the detriment of your neighbors.

I agree that you are most likely incorrect in saying you don't need a septic permit. How would they be able to keep you from just dumping your waste in a creek? If you build a septic just any old way, you are cheating future owners of the property and they would be the ones to bear the brunt of your cheapness.

Another point: You paid a lawyer $600 to close he deal? Why didn't you ask if there were any restrictions? I think a "Normal" person would have.

Lesson learned: Half of all lawyers graduated in the lower half of their class. Perhaps you got the one who graduated dead last.

Tell us your state and county and I am sure that someone can help you out with your question.

They will probably look at state laws pertaining to septic, etc.

First off look on the title to see if the restrictions are on there. If they are not, then the lawyer who prepared the title dropped the ball.

My understanding is these types of restrictions can only be enforced by someone suing you, in this case either the original seller if they still own adjoining property or possibly another adjoining landowner who owns property with the same restriction.

So in this case the question is whether you think you will get sued if you put up a used mobile home. Chances are that if your homesite is not visible from beyond the property, and you get a nice looking used mobile home, nobody will bother with the cost/trouble of a lawsuit if they even found out. Of course you could also have a mean lawyer for a neighbor who will sue you just for fun. Also keep in mine timeframe. If you only need to have the used trailer there for a short time until you get something else built, maybe you'd be done with it by the time the lawsuit was settled.

Would sure help to know at least the state, if not the county this is in.

Typically the state has all kinds of laws - as to septic - but it is up to the county to do enforcement/ inspection. If the state finds too many counties are not doing anything, then the laws get tougher. Just in general....

It sounds like you bought property in a county that does not enforce very much, but in a neighborhood with some 'homeowner association' stipulations. That is a rather odd mix, and wonder what comes of it in the future. Homeowner associations tend to get pretty busybody, and pass more & more restrictions as neighbors tick them off.

Perhaps that 5 acres was outside the original assoc area and has no restrictions? Perhaps someone forgot?

Many possibilities. Some in your favor, some not so much. We don't know the rules you have?

I don't know that I would move in first thing do exactly what the assoc forbids doing. 'Hi, I'm new here & want to shove it down your thoat, ha ha!' They _will_ push back on you if that is how you come into the neighborhood. This is assuming this is some sort of neighborhood deal, where the group wants to control their surroundings as badly as you want to control your own property. It will be pushing back & forth. Not so much fun for you to have a group of angry neighbors.

--->Paul

No, although they MAY be able to tell you. You should be able to read the deed yourselves and find out, if you can't figure it out, you will need to have an attorney read it and tell you

I don't think there is an HOA involved.

My take on restrictions are this: that it's an advertising and selling point for the seller to attract the $$$ for property that he/she wants. They are difficult to enforce and the owner isn't responsible for it and probably doesn't care a bit about what someone intends to do.

It's a "wash my hands" type thing.

That said, the people who BUY may be a different matter. 80% of them may buy having the same attitude that you do. (who cares about restrictions), but the 20% do have the law (although it will cost them to go to court for it) on their side.

I talked to a guy in Ohio that told me the problem with restrictions (which someone alluded to earlier) was that you may raise 15 hogs, get the neighbor mad at you, get a court date, etc. and then the hogs are done gone and butchered.

If you bought it and it has restrictions I have to ask how much you value your neighbors and your relationship with them? They are really the ones that the restrictions are placed there for.

Generally speaking, attorneys and title companies check to see if the title is free and clear of any liens or other financial ecumberances. I believe that they wouldn't normally check the title for convenants and easements unless asked to this specifically.

What county and state is your property in?

Hey.

You must abide by the restrictions. The seller is responsible for full disclosure. You could claim fraud and void the deal or seek damages, if you wanted. Ignorance of the law is no defense. Surely, sooner or later one of the other owners in the project will come after you to remove the doublewide. The restrictions help to keep the value of the property higher, since it protects against it becoming a shantytown. You should have consulted a lawyer at closing and a had title search to determine the legality of the terms.

RF

The title being free and clear is mostly what the lien holder is looking for.

A friend of mine closed on a home a few years ago....out on a back road, woods, fields, etc. that stretched out behind her new home. What she didn't know, and what the selling agent didn't tell her, that less than a 1/4 from the side of her house a new highrise senior housing development was planned. If she had utilized a buyers agent that individual would have done the homework and warned her. She tried filing suit against the agent but didn't get anywhere.

The moral of the story....just be sure you know absolutely everything you can about a land purchase!

Good luck ~ let us know where you purchased your land. :)

Well, it's going to depend on whether or not the restrictions are actually in place on your property.

But let's assume there are restrictions. Now why don't we try to find a way for you to work within those parameters to get something cheap and livable that satisfies the requirements? I think that is the direction you should work on.

I've noticed in a few places the brand-new modular home prices have dropped like a rock. People can't get loans for them anymore unless they have very good credit. So just to get some stuff moved off the lot dealers are more willing to bargain. In some cases, a lot more willing. If you have the money for it, you might be better off trying to walk into a place with cash and see if they accept an offer.

Kayleigh

Restrictions on property
 

If you are carried to court because of violations of restrictions the first thing they will ask is did you know it was restricted and yes you did. Now if you knowingly violated them your defense is??????
If you built a stick built house of 1100 sq ft and you watched your cost you could do that for about $25 to $30 thousand complete finished no junk and something anyone would be proud of. Drag in a used moble skimp on septic and you are going to court and you will be moving it off the land cleaning up all the mistakes and then you will never have any friendly neighbors. Its restricted and you can either live with it or sell to someone who can live with the restrictions. We have land that is part of the farm and it is for sale but it has restictions anything that would affect our land value wise is not allowed, its spelled out and legal. If you want a junk yard, substandard housing, a hog parlor, hundreds of crowing fighting roosters we do not want you for neighbors, you can have pigs a pair with pigs no more than 10, you can have chickens but not 300,000, its a nice area with all the houses setting on at least 10 acres up to 800 acres our house is the smallest at 1200 sq ft. and it is old but nice, well kept and landscaped.
Someone buys the property from us and makes a mess and becomes a real pain will not do it for long, Been there and have had to carry people to court and while not fun have never lost. Good reasonable covenants keep the whole area a good place to live. Have you ever lived close to a hog farm or chicken farm????

I have to admit I'm a bit nonplussed by folks with an attitude like yours. If you don't want to abide by deed restrictions then don't buy a property that has them.

We bought our place knowing there were restrictions and expect our neighbors that own property with those restrictions to abide by them as well.

I might not get riled up about a neighbor putting putting a doublewide but I would sure sue them if they put in a junk yard. As others have pointed out, someone has to sue you to enforce it.

If you bought the 5 acres knowing that they were subject to the same restrictions as your 21 acres and you are looking for a loophole, that basically falls under the heading of being a weasel. That may offend you or some others but that is what it is. Stand up and be a person...play it straight.

Mike

quote:If you bought the 5 acres knowing that they were subject to the same restrictions as your 21 acres and you are looking for a loophole, that basically falls under the heading of being a weasel. That may offend you or some others but that is what it is. Stand up and be a person...play it straight.
Mike

Actually to me it is feeling that MY land is just that. I could not care less what any of my neighbors do...as long as their septic doesnt pollute my well,etc ,,,.and IF I find a loophole I WILL use it to my and my families advantage with no aplogize. ..weasel or not.
I have talked to our nearest neighbor and they don't care what we do..in fact said..no one would...but who knows? There are 20 different land plots that have been bought under these restrictions..most are nothing but vacant land. I may try and write each one with a request for permission to void the restrictions..and see where that gets me.
seedspreader says
I don't think there is an HOA involved.

My take on restrictions are this: that it's an advertising and selling point for the seller to attract the $$$ for property that he/she wants. They are difficult to enforce and the owner isn't responsible for it and probably doesn't care a bit about what someone intends to do.It is not a home owners coop./ It is a guy who had inherited tons of land..and as
You are exactly right. Tjis is exactly the background on this property.
BTW There IS a chicken farm that backsup to my property..for whoever mentioned chicken farms....
This property is in Tennessee, with part in macon county..which does have restrictions..and the majority in Clay county. Where we would like to live. I talked previously to the originator of this property,,,,he said that the restrictions were more to prevent a hog farm. or a single wide. "A nice used double wide would probably pose no problem," but i guess he can't be sure either.He did create the restrictions but he isnt the one to enforce them. According to the restrictions..Heck I could actually build a barn and live in it...but not a used double wide? silliness.

Some states have a 10 acre + rule that doesn't require septic...and no the attorney isn't required to tell you about CCRs...However in your closing package, you should be able to read through all of those documents and if there are CCRs, in most states you are required to sign stating that they were furnished. I know in NC, if they are not furnished and signed, then they aren't binding (happened to me personally because the closing attorney didn't have us sign them, we didnt know we couldnt' rent the property so we did, he tried to keep us from doing it. I asked for legal paperwork that I had signed and called and lawyer and the lawyer stated because we didn't sign it we were not bound by it). Thats the story...yada yada...Good luck...Whewww thank goodness we aren't "normal" LOL

You signed a contract (deed/titlework) agreeing to abide by the deed restrictions. So if you don't mind proclaiming yourself a liar and a cheat then who am I to argue with you.

And if you get sued or otherwise suffer a bad otucome based on your choice then I fully expect you to come back and whine about how unfairly you are being treated. If you didn't like the deed restrictions why did you buy in the first place?

You are basically asking people to bless your desire to cheat. Why would any reasonable person expect you to keep your word to them after a posting like that?

Mike

I will say again, it would be a better idea to approach this problem from the "what can I do within the restrictions" angle than the "how can I get out of the restrictions I knew about" angle.

Depending on how good a lawyer your future neighbors can afford, you might find that you are going to spend more than you would have to have just stayed within the restrictions to begin with.

I agree that you should be able to do what you want on your own land. That is why you don't buy land that has restrictions on it.

Kayleigh

As a liscenced and insured Tennessee RE broker, you are making me cringe.....Tennessee has developed a reputation.... that is hard to shake, thanks for all your help....

All land in tennessee is subject to the Tennessee's health and waste water regulations at a state level, various other smaller sub-governments may impose special rules in addition to the state and may or not inspect....the regulations are there, for your protection as much as your neighbors....


Your original post answers your own question, restriction like easements...."run with the property"..... they are a permanent addition to the deed without a formal process to remove them... If you did not have them removed before closing they are still there....100% sure I'm correct on this issue.... Let me explain why, It dosn't matter what you neighbor allows, cares about, or just dosn't want to fight over.... He may die tomorrow, your new neighbor could hold you to the original contract and you pay damages, and his court cost..." yes, you will pay both lawyers"

I have personally been in two cases in which I initally paid to enforce restrictions, I got my money back both times.... the cases took less than an hour combined.

It was not their responsiblity to tell you what you already new, as a current owner, all responsibility and duties for disclosure were absent, the agent and lawyer knew that, and now so do you....

Had you walked off a bus from out of town, the duty to spell out restrictions would have been a legal requirement, this was not the case with your purchase....

This state is one the the fastest growing and urbanizing areas in the nation, A bill to outlaw the sale of new mobile homes has not lacked that many votes for several years now, the state is working hard to clean up it's countryside and it's image...

You signed a contract (deed/titlework) agreeing to abide by the deed restrictions. So if you don't mind proclaiming yourself a liar and a cheat then who am I to argue with you.

That is where you are wrong.I dont believe I signed any restriction on this 5 acres.If i had then that would be it. If i didnt then what law requires me to abide by a contract i did not sign?
When we had the 21 acres WITH restrictions we had signed on..we have abided by those restrictions.
You have called me just about every rude name i can think of..what does that make YOU?

thank you redhog..you have made some valid points from an educated stand point. Where may I find the tennessee health and wastewater regulations?
reguardless of somes strong opinions..I REALLY am a nice person. I hope Tennessee doesnt go too overboard with their regulations. Its nice to find a little bit of freedom in the USA

You've stated that "nobody told you".... is it in the paperwork for the deed? Nobdy has to tell you, you are expected to read the paperwork. That is why real estate sales under UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) are required to be in writing.

And if by chance there was some sort of error and the title was improperly conveyed, you are not off the hook. That is why people get title insurance. If a subsequent sale or search turns up the error/ommission you may end up with a clouded title.

Your first post asks if "you can sneak". A person who believes they are doing the right thing doesn't have to bother asking that question. As far as what I've called you, it's exactly what you have named yourself through your posts. You try to present it in a light you think might conceivably be found favorable by others... how you say it doesn't change a thing. You named yourself a sneak in your own writing, not me.

The rest of your post clearly indicates a willingness to cheat - the only question you have is whether others think you might have a chance of getting away with it.

As far as the "rude" names I've called you..... it makes me a person that recognizes a sneak and a cheat and is willing to call things the way they are.

As I wrote before, why would you expect anyone on the board to trust your word given your self proclaimed willingness to sneak and cheat?

Mike

Restrictions are simple. They are attached to the land. They are not attached to a purchaser or seller. They are a matter of record at the county. A title company isn't actually required to bring the restrictions up to you. They do not affect the close or the background of the property ownership. A good title company will share them. I have never had a title company share them with me. All a title company is to do is to verify the ownership of the property and secure that it can be in the transaction as stated in the sale. Restrictions are not part of ownership.

If the seller didn't know there were restrictions, they are not liable for "for disclosure" as they didn't know. If they did know and didn't inform you, maybe there is a small case. If they knew that the property was on the same restrictions as yours and you knew that, they aren't required to inform you.

In your case, you know they are there. You should abide by them. If you don't, you run the risk of having legal action taken.

sounds pretty simple there Phalynx.
Guess I will go back to saving for a barn to make liveable or a basement to cap off. I wish we were handier. Perhaps then we could put up a house for 25,000. My husband and I would just live in the camper out there since our youngest graduates this year..cept we now have 4 more little ones we are raising and have to have a bigger place to live. Guess we will just keep on plugging.Thanks for all of you who gave opinions in a way that didnt make you out to be a real __________. If everyone responded the way whats his face did I doubt that there'd be many that returned here.

Nobody around here follows Contracts.According to ours our road was to be kept up passable by Passenger car,it never has been to where you needed less than 4WD.

big rockpile

I have a few pieces of property in RBS TN, a couple are kinda near some chicken houses and when Summer rolls around and they are cleaning out the chicken houses and the smell is just right you will forget about restrictiions and wonder why I bought next door to a chicken house. Restrictions, as Red Hogs said, run with the property for they are in the origional deed. Restrictions increase property values, and the overall quality of life for all involved, but there are always a few guys who would spend a month trying to "get away" with something rather than a week doing it right to start with. Good luck and now that you have told everyone in the neighbor hood what you have in mind out there in eastern Macon County and Western Clay County why you might even have some of that Nim Road Property. Dosen't matter the Deed Transfer will be published in the Chronicle and the Macon County Times Times anyway.

Hmm, I for one wouldn't outright violate a restriction, but I would work around them if it wouldn't hurt anyone. For instance, if I was in your situation, I'd be wondering if a temporary alternative structure, such as a yurt, would be permissable. ;-) Good luck.

If you had your closing at a title company, then any restrictions would like be listed in your title work. Did anyone go over your title work with you? If there are restrictions and the title company did not list them, then they are negiligent. Check your title work you got at closing.

I would back track the deed it may of been five acres that weren't never from the bigger spot . My spot has no assessments or restrictions. Will never live in any town nor would i buy any land that did . I do know if you chase down all laws and can represent your self you can make someone spend a lot of time an money .Also them neighbors may not cast the first stone cause i never saw anyone .follow every law on the books

I can tell you, on a positive note, that you absolutely can build a home for 25K. My wife and I are building ours. It's 1300 sq ft and we have spent about 20K so far with very little left to do. If we can do it, you can do it. Here is a picture of it.

http://www.ouramericanadventure.com/...1/DSC_7495.jpg

You may want to consider that if you ignore the restrictions now, and in the future a neighbor also ignores the restrictions in a way you find detrimental to you, you'd have little recourse against the neighbor. If you're within all restrictions you're then in a position to insure your present or future neighbors don't skirt them either.

Around here you couldn't take out a Loan or get Insurance on it because it don't have a foundation.

big rockpile