Your own personal SHTF

Going to have to post this in two posts, one while looking at each page, lol.
Sorry for the delay, I took Saturday off for a mental break and spent the day baking cookies with thei kids. And then of course Monday the site was broken....

I don't know if the house would rent or not? Are there a lot of people that can afford 2000.00 a month rent?


Ya know, Edcopp, it's posts like yours that put it in perspective. What good is credit if it's used as an epithet on a tombstone?

My statement about freeing up cash is because any money that would have been spent on the debts would be saved.

As far as the trucks, neither could be sold for what's owed on them. So even if we sold, not only would we be vehicle-less, we'd owe for the difference. The cell phones and net are free and we have no landline phone, so that wouldn't help either.

Mr. RRR works 53.5 hours a week and I 42.5. So another job isn't a possiblity. Some days it's difficult for me to even do my work, due to my health problems. So if anyone calls for alcohol and drug treatment and it sounds like Marilyn Monroe is on the line, it's not- it's just breathless me.

And here in East TN, this *IS* better employment. I make 9.00 bucks an hour and he's (well, until the end of the year) sitting at 65-70 g a year.

Quite honestly, in this place in time, I don't WANT a mortgage in NM. It may be throwing good money away, but until we're sure that we're settled for good, i'd rather lease option. At least that way, if something should happen, we're not tied into a mortgage that we may not be able to get out of. It'll be wierd, we haven't rented in sixteen years or so.

Oh Maura, I wish it were stress. We just found out about the pay cut on Friday. So unfortunately I can't contribute my problems to that. I haven't tried massage, other than rubbing my chest when it aches so badly. At one point, they did an ekg because the doc thought it was heart related.

Now on to the second page.....

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" It's better to ride even if you get thrown, than to wind up just wishin' ya had."

Chris Ledoux

Whether a lender can get a deficiency judgment or not depends upon the terms of the particular loan documents and whether state law permits enforcement of a provision that allows for one. Chances are that if a lender's documents provide for a deficiency judgment, the state in which they were drafted allows for one.

Getting a deficiency judgment against a mortgagor personally is not a huge legal feat, and can be done in less than a couple of hours' time (including transit time to the courthouse). Enforcing a judgment can be much more time-consuming but still is not particularly difficult. In some states (including mine), a judgment becomes an automatic lien of record on any real property owned by the judgment debtor. A writ of execution can be obtained with very little effort, allowing the sheriff to hook a tow truck up to any vehicle owned by the debtor and to empty the debtor's house of all personal property save certain "exempt" property. Writs of garnishment against all bank accounts and wages are a snap.

Worst thing is, a judgment follows you around for a good, long time, and can be enforced at any time along the way. In my state, a judgment is good for a full ten years--and then can be renewed with a simple application for an additional ten-year period.

In short, I wouldn't take a judgment lightly.

Mid TN Mama: it's something about the air in the drier states that keeps allergies and asthma under control. People that had tuberculosis were often sent west for the healthier air. When we were in western Colorado (pretty much desert there too) my son didn't have to take any allergy meds and was able to breathe easily the whole time we were there. My paternal grandfather went out there to try and keep his allergies and asthma under control. It worked like a miracle and he was even able to drink milk after not having been able to drink it for many years.

Thanks, SP. We've dropped Savvy to 500.00, can you believe it? We have a good friend coming to look at Cold Gin. It'll be hard because he's been with us for almost six years and he's my cribber/colicker so we've been through soooo much. But I trust them and I trust him to take care of their daughter.

MidTNMama- I have humidity intolerant asthma. Anytime the humidity is over 40/50% (which, living in TN you know is most of the time) my airways burn like fire, my chest tightens and aches and my breathing gets really shallow, wheezey and labored.

I've been inundating companies in NM with applications and resumes for Greg. I can get work anywhere, there's always drug addicts everywhere, right?

Our credit is still fine. The actual pay cut, since his pay periods are held back, will be felt in mid February. We're trying to be premptive by taking care of things NOW.

Nodak-
Humidity is my demon. Here i'm using my rescue inhaler 5-8 times a day and am unable to do almost everything. No horseback riding, no taking the kids on outings, no zoo, no hikes, heck- no playing frisbee in the back yard, no walking into the grocery store without a rest stop. We spent nine days in NM in June (I had hoped to make it in monsoon season, but that wasn't to be) and was able to be ME again. I rode with the window down, passed the kids up walking on a hilly street, had stamina to spare and wasn't nodding in my chair by seven pm. And I didn't have to use my inhaler. No chest pains, no burning- no shortness of breath. We started our tour in Alamogordo, Ruidoso, then headed up the Hondo Valley to Lincoln, Albuquerque and the east mountains into Taos and Tres Piedras. Nowhere, not even the thin air of Tres Piedras, affected me. I can say that the water exhibits in the zoo in Alb. put pressure on my lungs, but as soon as I walked away, I was okay again. We've agreed that refrigerated air is the way to go for our cooling and I don't remember feeling a problem in stores. Could it be possible that we did all that traveling and I didn't come across a swamp cooler? I remember seeing them on the top of many houses.


My asthma doesn't seem to be tied to allergies at all. Oddly enough. My insurance does become affective in January (you know, only 13 months after I applied) and I have an appointment on the 6th with a specialist.

Thanks again, everyone. Y'all have had some ideas that hadn't occurred to us. So far, I think the game plan is:
Stop paying the mortgage and sock that money away. Open the cannons on resume and applications in NM. Continue reducing the crap we own. Including sending back the mower and selling what things we won't need in NM. Cut the budget to the bare minimum and keeping selling/giving away the horses. Keeping working as much as possible and picking up any extra hours available. Finish what work we have materials for on the house. We've been fixing a lot of stupid things the previous owners did, so we'll finish up what we have or can trade for. The rest can take care of it's self. If the house is forclosed on, it will at least be in better condition than when we bought it.

So, anyone wanna buy 7 acres with a 40x60 barn, two run in sheds, two paddocks and a field with a 3800 sq ft five bedroom, three bath house in East TN? ;-) Payoff is about 300,000.

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" It's better to ride even if you get thrown, than to wind up just wishin' ya had."

Chris Ledoux

Oh, and one thing I found out about Albuquerque this weekend. Did you know, back in the day it was touted as a cure-all for TB? Many people traveled there for the environment and were greatly helped. The huge sanatoriums were then converted into hospitals.

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" It's better to ride even if you get thrown, than to wind up just wishin' ya had."

Chris Ledoux

Be care ful when buying "cheap" land i8n NM ..... make sure it has water.

I contacted our lender on our first mortgage a few months back about what can be done(very similar situation although we can pay our bills still,just cannot have ANYTHING unexpected happen) and they actually were pretty helpful explaining the options.

I was surprised when they openly discussed short sales,deed in lieu of foreclosure etc with me...seems they have become experts at this in the last year or so.

Our lender is Countrywide(yes THAT Countrywide) and it eased my mind a lot.

I was ready to simply walk away but then fate stepped in and our properties have sold(God willing).

From reading articles online the backlog of defaults is so great that people are living in their homes for up to eight months BEFORE receiving a notice of default and then it takes another couple of months before an eviction notice is served.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008...b40074b8ec.txt

Also remember,a mortgage is a BUSINESS contract,there are no emotions or feelings involved in it.

Something else you might consider is this....

You turn the property into a business by renting it out, month by month, charge a real reasonable amount, get some short term tenents , perhaps students, send that rent check to your bank as partial payment, you can run this a while until they get grumpy and then you tell your renters that you are having trouble with the mortgage payment and you may have to let the bank take it back, or perhaps they have already left on their own. Now you can let the bank take it back, and you have the business loss of the written off debt.

Also look into this:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...174034,00.html

I do not believe TN is a non-recourse state either...so theoretically the lender CAN go after you for the difference...will they?Not likely considering the numbers of foreclosures there are.

So was East TN, my how things change.

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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

Find someone that qualifies to take over payments on your current house. Pay the closing cost if necessary. Just get their name on the mortgage. Handle to horses and the vehicles as mentioned above.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Yes, write-downs being reported as income has been a huge issue lately. Lenders normally don't tell people that when they offer a write-down for a credit card debt that they submit a 1099-Misc to the IRS on you, so the amount of the write-down will be considered regular income.

For example, if you owe $5,000 on a credit card and get behind on payments, they may offer you a settlement at half the value of the note, provided that you sign an agreement to pay the $2,500 off regularly. However, you'll also get a notice from the IRS telling you that you owe $600 to $800 on the $2,500 that was written down.

Note that a write-down is not the same thing as a charge-off. A charge-off is what the original lender does to be able to claim your defaulted balance off their corporate income taxes. They don't submit a 1099-Misc on you for that. You only get 1099ed if you agree in writing to a new contractual agreement at a lower balance.

So you see, the government had to make a exception for real estate. If someone had a mortgage write-down of $100,000, which is not unusual today, then the IRS would go after the borrower for perhaps $25,000 in income tax for that $100,000 (payable immediately, of course). If the government didn't do that then they would have created a bigger problem for homeowners than already existed.

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Ask Me About Linux System Administration

Ok - just askin..

where are you located in TN?

just askin mind you, but would you be interested in sending me some pics by pm to sidepasser@hotmail.com of Savvy - I tried to go to the Craigslist page but it has expired.

I just found out a TB that I had placed will likely be sold after the first of the year to a wonderful family with a girl who takes lessons and the trainer who has him will be boarding him so I can sort of keep tabs on him.

I may be able to swing Savvy for that price..she's a lovely mare and I liked her when I first saw her. She would have a good home, lots of paddock space (2 acres and a stall).

pm me at sidepasser@hotmail.com.

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Be yourself - no one can tell you that you're doing it wrong!

Charaty: If moving to NM will provide the health benefits you claim, anyone with common sense would be on a Greyhound bus going SW today. You are afraid of honest comments from your caring friends on HT, which proves you are not really keen to learn what got you and yours where you are today. I won't mention the absolute foolishness of ARMs, but your kind hearted(but foolish) family Must understand that horse keeping requires you to have very large finances set aside that can be scooped into that dark hole, never to be seen again. Face it, you are not wealthy but have acted as if you were. Now your health suffers and I only pray your children don't suffer as well.

Good luck with facing the hard truth which is the only way of turning everything around...Glen

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The more a man travels, acquires wisdom and learns about life, the more likely he is to marry a Country Girl.

This sounds like a plan to me!

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I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam.

Popeye

RRR--good luck! Yes, back in the day Alb and dry air were considered cures for TB. They weren't, but that was the thought. Antibiotics, the real cure, had not been invented yet.

They used to be considered good for allergies, but since easterners moved out and brought the same trees and plants with them, now they tell us we might consider a bit rainier climate if we have bad allergies as rain clears the air.

You might want to investigate during windy season, usually spring, and see how you handle dust. My one nephew's asthma is allergies, the other humidity. The one with humidity asthma does terrible during sandstorm season. (Very dry but the dust sets him up.)

And yes, you might have missed buildings with swamp coolers or been in them when they weren't running. We live in southern Co in a very very dry area. Our humidity outdoors in summer is generally around 7%. Our indoor humidity when the SC is running is about 70%. Enough my one nephew has to carry a rescue inhaler to shop at wallyworld.

So be careful choosing housing. And do plan on high cooling bills if you go with regular AC as we do get some wicked heat.

Now, all that said, the area can still be best for you. Do your research and avoid irrigated farming country like the plague. My bro lives in Roswell near pecan orchards. When the city humidity is about 15%, his around his house is about 80%.

Same thing happens up around the four corners area in the river valleys, and in summer in the irrigated areas around Alb. and in the Rio Grande valley.

So look for dry land farming areas, or real desert. Even the mountains are often high humidity in the summer afternoons, especially during the monsoon season.

My nephew used weather.com to help him choose a new area. He spent about a year checking the relative humidity daily in each potential area he was considering. That allowed to him find out micro climates he could handle, and those he could not.

Really? That's just sad. Now we have this swirling microcosm of allergens and irritants.

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" It's better to ride even if you get thrown, than to wind up just wishin' ya had."

Chris Ledoux

Get a letter from your Dr. stating that your health is being severely compromised by living in TN and his recommendation that you immediately relocate in order to save your life. Take that to the bank and give a copy to them. Keep another copy to be placed in your credit file with any other paperwork resulting from this.

So I guess I don't get most of this as I don't move in the world of credit very often. If your mortgage was a secured loan with the house and property as collateral, can't you just surrender the collateral and move on? I wouldn't worry about your credit rating. For now, you shouldn't get any credit. You have no future ability to repay.

Regarding the trucks, right now you owe all the money ($15K, for example) If you sell one for $12K and apply that to the loan, you would only then owe $3K and could make arrangements to pay that off over time and be completely out from under that loan. In your situation, you need to drop back to one vehicle and it should be an inexpensive one. What was the security for the vehicle loans? The trucks themselves? If that's the case, then it seems like you could give that lender a copy of the Dr. letter, let them know your situation and ask whether they would prefer you sell the vehicle and work out payment arrangements with them for the rest or just to repossess the vehicle and call it even.

There's a solution to the vehicle problem, but it's not pretty. And that is to drive what you can afford. Both dh and I are driving junkers worth under $2K. We paid cash in full to get them and while they aren't fancy, they are totally paid for and we will never owe more than their value.

Definitely check out HUD homes or other foreclosures in your target area. There well may be people living there right now who are in a similar situation. Perhaps with a little help from the right govt. program, you could get a good deal on a rehab.

Dutchie- oh trust me, there will be nothing obtained that already doesn't have a water source. I feel sorry for the people who buy cheap NM land on ebay and then can't use it.
Agmantoo- I wonder if there's anyone around that can still get financed. The nighrbor's friend may be interested. They're up for the hoildays so I can check with her.

Sidepasser, you got mail. And we're in East TN, outside of Knoxville.

Wow, Glen. The reason we hadn't already moved is because we had commitments here. We were redoing the house to perhaps make some money on it at selling and my husband had an obligation to the company he opened nine years ago. The plan was to list the house and move this spring- once the work was completed and the replacement found and trained. I understand that we're not wealthy, but wouldn't most people count on a consistent job, with regular increases in pay that has occurred over the period of nine years? Are you saying that we should have stayed at the level we were at when he started the job? Never increasing our possessions, property or home? The animals were one thing that we take joy in. Neither of us participate in any other activities, nor do we spend money on other activities. We saw it as a reasonable expectation to pay for and enjoy them, as a family and we have for over five years, without problem.

My health problems were neither caused by, not excerbated by our lifestyle. I'll admit i've railed at the world, so to speak, because I live a pretty healthy life- no smoking ever, no drugs ever and rare drinking, never more than a drink at a time. I've never done anything to wreck my health, yet here it is.

The hard truth is that we've worked hard all our lives and were enjoying the fruits of it. No expensive toys or trips, just a country family and their critters. No, we didn't pay cash for everything like some can and now we're paying the price. THAT is the hard truth. Thank you for your well wishes, though.

Nodak- that's EXACTLY what we did. We researched relative humidity levels and then narrowed the results down by a few other criteria. There had to be four seasons, close enough to a larger city for work, rural and temps close to the ones here. We settled on NM, based on all the information. The trip there was a God send. Rather than hoping it worked for me, I was able to see for myself. I have a friend who moved there in July for the same reason and she's been off all her meds for a few months. The East Mountains area is pretty windy (and dusty) and the only problem I seemed to have was dust in my danged contacts. :-)

We stopped at all sorts of restaurants, shops (big and small), museums and such and I don't recall having a problem. That makes me wonder.....regardless, i'll take the possibility of needing my inhaler on a whether or not i'm going to a store basis over not being able to walk outside with it certainty. One thing that amazed me, we were at the zoo and it was 104 and felt like 80 here in TN. That was so refreshing. I didn't believe Mr. RRR and asked to look at his phone for confirmation!

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" It's better to ride even if you get thrown, than to wind up just wishin' ya had."

Chris Ledoux

I hadn't thought of a Dr letter. As far as the trucks go, without two trucks, we don't have two jobs. He works 50 minutes away in one direction (leave home at eight am and returns about seven thirty pm) and I leave at eight am and get home at six pm- the total opposite direction from him and thirty five minutes away. So we would have no vehicles. lose one of our jobs and still owe on them, if we sold.
If we can cut expenses and stop paying the mortgage, we can swing the other bills until we can leave.

I don't want credit, I just wanted to bow out with the least amount of damage possible.

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" It's better to ride even if you get thrown, than to wind up just wishin' ya had."

Chris Ledoux

Charity,
I can't tell you what to do. I can tell you this:
1) There are no easy answers. Either choice will come at great cost. For ourselves, we opted NOT to file bankruptcy when it happened to us. We took several years paying things off. Whatever you do right now, in some ways will feel like a death.
2) The stress you are under on top of your health issues are not good. Were I ill when we were going through it that would have impacted my decision considerably.
3) You will make it! I know that seems hard to belive right now. But I have been in your shoes, and I know you can make it! 4 years later, I am in a place I love, with no debt at all. I DO wait to pay cash for things now, and would rather go without than to ever be in that situation again. Whats more, job wise, we have a better income than we've ever had before. The next year or two may be very hard, but they are not the end of your story, they are just a long parenthesis. Never forget that.
4) You are about to find out who your friends are. People like to blame. If what you are going through is "all your fault" then it can't happen to them. You will be surprised who is on your side, and who you thought you could count on for emotional support who will turn on you. Let that make you stronger. They can't help being where they are. They are not responding to you. They are resonding to their own fear. Know it in advance, and when it is all over, remember that it is not really a loss... just a clearer picture of the reality that was already there.
5) Men feel like a failure when job stuff happens to them. In our country, a man's identity is far too wraped up in his career. If an new job does not come right away, Mr. RRR is going to need far more love, understanding, and support from you than he has ever needed before.
OK, hope that helps. You are among friends. You are going to make it.
Cindyc.
ETA: Skipped one of those really important little words!

You can research short sales, but the thing with a short sale is that it legally releases you (even if there is a charge off for the price difference) for the property.

I won't go into all of it, it's out there if you really want to research it, but let's just say you stop paying your mortgage right now, and they don't begin foreclosure process for possession immediately. Your husband gets a job.

Guess what, you can't move. Why not? Because you're still legally responsible for the shape of that house. Many houses that are empty are being plundered and vandalized. If you have a short sale, it eliminates that worry. If you leave and someone vandalizes the house, guess who is responsible when the mortgage company eventually takes possession? Yup, you are.

Furthermore...

If you stop making the mortgage payment, you husband may have a difficult time getting a job. Most jobs (especially those offering the kind of $$$ that your husband is in) are usually a management job of some sort and WILL require a credit check.

It's a bummer, he would probably never be tempted to embezzle money or manipulate numbers, but most companies make that direct correlation to your credit check.

If you CAN make payments, you should be making them. The plans that you should be making should include talking to the mortgage company about short sale, at the very least renegotiating the amounts and finance rates, renting out your place or any number of things to fight to keep your credit ok.

It stinks, but they are even tying insurance rates to credit ratings.

Furthermore, speaking of insurance, I assume your insurance is tied to your mortgage? If it's not, don't let your insurance lapse no matter what happens.

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