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Best Dozer?
Whats the cheepest dozer to use ?
When I go to the sales its seems like size dosnt matter, if it does its that they get cheeper the Bigger they are. A D-9 seems like a heck of a deal compared to a D-4 for the same or more money. Id think even though it would use more fuel per hour a D-9 would also move a lot more dirt. It also seems like I have heard its easyer to do a good clean job on a bigger machine than a smaller one. So is it the parts for the bigger unit are killer? I sure noticed when I had my T=340 IH craweler that parts for it were a LOT higher than the same parts for a 340 tractor. |
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Unless you have the work for a large dozer I don't see a need for a large machine. The bigger machines need a lowboy for transport. Around here small to mid-sized machines are mostly loaded on flatbed trucks. Smaller machines are handier for logging and working well locations. Parts costs are always an issue if you work the machine a lot. Most of the machines around here, old or new, are John Deeres. FWIW, you'll have a tough time selling a machine here that doesn't have a winch. That's because of the demand for logging or gas well work.
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Parts and fuel would be a lot higher for the large dozers I think. It seems that once they depreciate to a certain point that's where the price stays.
About 30 years ago some friends bought an old but recently rebuilt D-8 for $5,000. Sold it for $5,000 after clearing 100 acres. The next guy built an airstrip and then sold it for $5,000. |
what are you planning to use it for?
The general consensus between my hub and neighbors is to go with the bigger you can get--you will get the heavy stuff done in way less time, and be able to do more without breaking it(if you use a lightweight dozer for something too heavy or hard for it you will bust stuff). THIS is the best dozer--1950 TD14 for $500. It is a true bucket of bolts but it gets the job done. Parts---bwahahahahaha, there are no "parts", hub Red Greens it. We need a new cable for the back(or else get it off and have someone splice it)but it came broke:D. It starts on gas and flips over to diesel. I have to admire the old thing. The hoses leak and we keep patching them, but the thing still runs despite it's being old and "obsolete". Hey, it works :D. I call her Betsy http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...cts/tom048.jpg |
its a tool and like any tool the right size depends on the job. a d9 will use more fuel the a d4 but it will push alot more dirt in the same time frame. parts cost more for the bigger units. what ever you get check the undercarriage if you have to replace that it $$$$, even if you do it yourself.
greg |
Really, you have to consider the work you plan on doing, and where you plan on using it. Anything bigger than about a D5 in the newer machines and you'll have to have permits to even move it, besides the trailer. A truck with a D9 on it can be a pain to even get to smaller jobs, much less to use the dozer on smaller jobs. That being said, a 9 will move more than just a little dirt. The last D9 I ran was building a landfill pit. We had a 375 trackhoe and a huge Clark loader filling up Euc dump trucks (you know, the ones that take an extention ladder to fuel up.) three D8s pushing scrapers and a D9 ripping.
Fuel and parts do cost more the bigger the iron. I can't remember figures for the D9 but a New Holland machine about the size of a D5 or maybe a D6M uses about five gallons an hour if it is ran hard. If I were going to buy a machine just for the homestead I would stay around a D5 or smaller with a six way blade, unless I found a really good deal on something larger. If I were going to make a living at doing farm dirt work with some oil field, I'd probably get a D6 with a straight blade. The six way blade is nice, but heavy pushing is easier with the straight blade, and there is less to break. I can build two rig sites in a long day with a D6 in most cases, and that would be about $5,000 for a day's work. Well, a year ago it would be at least; I don't know what the drilling companies are paying now. Of course that gets us back to needing a haul truck... As the other poster said, check the undercarriage very carefully. It is easy to spend more on fixing a machine than what you paid for it at the auction. |
The largest machine that you can get to your place without paying a high fee for moving it is the cheapest. It takes 1 operator regardless of size. Therefore you will be paying wages for 1. The price difference per hour regardless of size for a machine suitable for the task will not vary over $50/hour. A large machine can accomplish many times the amount of work in a single hour over even a medium sized dozer. Fuel consumption for the task will be less for a larger machine as it will not have to run as many hours. I have a need to move a large amount of dirt a small distance. I own a Cat traxcavator but will be hiring a large Cat dozer. I can hire that work done cheaper than I can do it due to the specific task and the amount of dirt to be moved. Earth moving equipment is expensive to own, maintain and fuel but is essential on some problems/opportunities. Usually the dirt you already own is the cheapest land available to you. Spending some money on that land to convert it from unusable to producting makes good sense. You are already paying property tax on that land and it may be paid for.
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I work at THE John Deere dealer for Alaska. Outside parts sales. I have also worked at THE CAT dealer for Alaska (WA and MT).
The undercarriage is most of the worth of a machine. On large machines a new undercarriage can cost more than an entire smaller machine with a fresh undercarriage. D8 and D9 crankshafts are getting rare and VERY expensive. Just the cost of a crankshaft can be as much as a complete smaller machine. With the economy tanking, there are some great deals out there. www.machinerytrader.com is a good source for values. Most homesteaders in AK are either using an old JD 350/450B/C or the little gray market Komatsu D20A/P and D21 A/P machines. There are a few TD7 machines too. A good used 350C can still be worth $10,000. 450 a bit more. Add for winch, root rake etc. If you only need a dozer once in a while the cheapest one is a rental. If you need one quite a bit, I would look at a 450G Deere/Case or D3/D4 CAT. Ask the rental yard to rent it to you with an option to buy with all rentals going to purchase price. Have the local dealer do an undercarriage assessment! The new machines require a laptop with software to maintain. Unless you have deep pockets, stick to the older mechanical style machines. Mike |
I should have never looked at this thread. It has only opened an old idea that I want and need a dozer. The idea of pushing over fence row trees effortlessly is making my head dance. Is this a "control" issue?
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I made the "mistake" a number of years ago and have HAD to own one ever since. I have cleared lots of acres and improved many many more. A person can take marginal land and make it into a show place. I took a run down farm that had the largest field only 12 acres in size and when finished the smallest field was 30 plus acres. The property value with inflation jumped from hundreds of dollars per acre to tens of thousands per acre. I sold it and moved on! I also bought a better machine then. : ) The "better machine" has not been trouble free and it is expensive to own, the last repair was over $7000 but I have done a lot of work with it that I am too cheap to pay someone to do. Fuel will exceed $100/day with a machine above 30,000 pounds weight working hard. Just engine oil changes with filters will not give you any change out of a $100 bill either.
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JD 550, International/Dresser TD-8, Case 850. All good machines. Small enough to use in tight spots. Big enough to handle heavier work. Relatively easy to work on & parts are readily available & not bad $ wise. Late '70s early '80s vintage go for under $20,000 grand around here. With a 6-way blade they really shine.
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My brother and I have a small Cat loader, and it has been very dependable. However, many times we've wished it was a bigger machine. It clears/pushes trees in damp soil fairly well, but when it's dry, forget about it.
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I'm seriously considering buy a dozer. I have about 1100 yards of road I'm going to need to clear/construct as well as clearing a half a dozen over grown fallow fields. Plus I might even clear a narrow lane around the fence of my farm which would be something on the order of 13,000 feet. I figure it is at least a week of work with a dozer. Considering what dozer work is going for these days I think I'd probably be ahead to buy one, use it for my dozer job and then sell it. The only thing that worries me is getting stuck with some huge repair bill and losing my butt on the whole thing.
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I've driven truck for the equipment rental industry for 20 years and I think transportation of your machine would be an important factor in your decision. If you are buying something for the homestead or farm that you don't intend to move, go as big as you can. If you want to move it, that's another story. I can tell you we moved many dozers with a rolloff truck, up to about a JD550. Some customers have moved a JD450 with a small dump truck with a heavy trailer. Many people run around with 580 Case backhoes on trailers behind dually pickup trucks. I've moved D8's and many other oversize excavators, dump trucks and loaders and we usually charge through the nose to move them not to mention being a real pain in the butt to get through traffic. I had a lowboy and I don't think the D8 was overheight but we had to take the blade tips off to get it within our oversize permit. We eventually gave up our oversize hauling because it was too expensive to buy permits for all the jurisdictions we covered. It was just easier to hire an outside hauler.
For what it's worth, we had mostly JD dozers and they stood up very well, especially considering how the average rental customer treated them. |
I'm new here but I got it figured out for you borrow Wyld Thang's Td 14 and get Truckinguy to move it ??? Now the fuel can get tough . I used a Td 15 b a while back an it burned six to seven gallon of fuel an hour .I would plan lots of things before i started the thing . But i may be the tighest wad on here ??? Those J D's and case are hard to beat
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Interesting thread. I want to get a backup for our tractor. In the winter delivering hay (round bales) to the livestock and plowing are critical activities. Rather than getting another tractor I'm wondering about getting a dozer. It could do the plowing and bales plus in the summer it would be better at building roads, terraces and such than the tractor is, what I use now for that sort of work.
For us the transportation of the machine is a one time issue (getting it here) unless it should need repair work we couldn't do ourselves. I have pondered the rental question. Currently we're in that situation and it came up once. Major hassle. The reason I would like to own rather than rent is that if I need it to replace the tractor I need it immediately. I don't have hours or days to waste getting a machine here. The farm must go on. |
Thing with a dozer in winter if the tracks and or rails freeze to the ground or lots of water you try to move it is bad real bad :nono:
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In this part of the world it sometimes warms up enough in the daytime that the ground will thaw just enough on top that the tracks will freeze tight over night . Most times they will park them on old tires or something with give to it . Cold steel don't like moving in these cases .Would think where it stay's cold this wouldn't happen .Most time here it thaws some at least every other day . My log skidder tires will freeze in too.
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Ive had that happen lots , it never seemed a problem I always assumed since a cat only has to lift one small tred from the grip of ice at a time that it wasnt a problem.
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We have logging chains on the wheels of our farm tractor year round for traction. I, once, got frozen in. It took a bit of gentle back and forth movement to break the chains out of the ice. Since then I have always been careful to park where that won't happen. I assume one would do the same with a dozer. No? Cheers -Walter Sugar Mountain Farm in the mountains of Vermont http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/ http://HollyGraphicArt.com/ http://NoNAIS.org |
I seen it happen. Right around this time of year. Started raining hard friday afternoon, worked up an inch of soupy mud on the skid trails & landing by quitting time. Got hit by an artic blast over the weekend, temps dropped from high 30's to -20 below. Monday morning the 225 cat loader & the JD690 processor were sitting on that frozen mud & weren't going nowhere, wouldn't budge. The Timco tree saw was off the landing abit & managed to break loose but huge chunks of duff was stuck to the grousers. The skidders got loose but one of them broke a tire chain. But that loader & processor were stuck fast.
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We were working across a creek and moved across before the rain started here :) I closed the crossing haven't tried to move anything yet. What can happen with cold steel is you put it in gear and here a loud pop it can break the final drive gears:mad: On a tractor it would be called bull gears i think :shrug:
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Two, that's why I started parking carefully. So, I'm curious as to how they freed the two frozen in machines...
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The mechanic truck showed up with a couple of weed burners. It took half the day & 4 bottles of propane, but we finally got the steel warm enough for the tracks to let go of that frozen mud.
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Back to topic at hand
I bought a nice used Massey Ferguson 300 this year. It has been a great little machine. I can crumb around most trees and get them over., I bought it mainly to clean up after logging mess.I use it to drag tops up out of the hollers to a central cutting zone. I buried an old chicken house foundation last week. Built a small pond a few months ago.. Some days I just take it for a drive around the woods.We own on both sides of the road so I have kept a stash of old tires handy to drive across the asphalt,.
I would be more concerned with the condition over the size when making a large iron purchase. |
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